Could Scotland really leave the UK?

[Vikrant]

For a time there is a chance that the yoga class in room 16 of Islesburgh Community Centre in Lerwick will have to move, though in the end the pro-Scottish independence group across the landing, in room 12, does not need the extra space.

The Yes Scotland meeting in the Shetland Islands’ capital is one of hundreds that have taken or will take place before the Scots decide whether they should break away from the United Kingdom in a referendum on September 18th next year.

For now the polls are steady, with two-thirds or so of those questioned saying they are likely to reject the independence call led by the country’s Scottish National Party first minister, Alex Salmond – though, in truth, most Scots have yet to engage.

At the well-attended room 12 meeting a few of the currents that will be significant in the months to come are discernible, particularly the SNP’s need to ensure that the Yes campaign is seen as more than just an SNP front. The top table includes Yes Scotland’s chief executive, a former journalist named Blair Jenkins; Scotland’s SNP minister for education, Mike Russell; Celia Fitzgerald of Labour for Independence; and Brian Nugent of Free Scotland, which opposes membership of the European Union.

During a question-and-answer session a member of the audience speaks admiringly of the Scandinavian high-tax and high-quality-public-services model, though Russell quickly intervenes. “I am in sympathy with that, but we will never get it off the ground unless we get independence. We need to focus on that,” he says, conscious that talk of higher taxes will frighten some voters.

...

Independence day: Could Scotland really leave the UK? - UK News | Online Newspaper | The Irish Times - Sat, Aug 03, 2013

 

[waltky]

Uncle Ferd all for it - still has fond memories of Scottish lass he once had...

Scottish nationalists march in Edinburgh to back independence
Mon, Sep 23, 2013 - Thousands of people marched through the Scottish capital, Edinburgh, on Saturday calling for independence, a year ahead of Scotland’s historic referendum on whether to break away from the UK.

The pro-independence campaign “Yes Scotland” estimated that 20,000 supporters joined the march, turning the city center into a sea of blue and white as they waved thousands of Scottish flags, though police said numbers were closer to 8,300. Some of the men were clad in traditional Scottish kilts as they marched up Calton Hill, overlooking the city, to the sound of bagpipes.

Alex Salmond, leader of the pro-independence Scottish National Party and head of Scotland’s regional government, told the crowds they would have “the opportunity of a lifetime” when they vote on Sept. 18 next year. “We’re a lucky generation,” he said. “To change our communities for the better we only need to say the word, to say ‘yes.’”

Opinion polls suggest only about a third of the 5.3 million Scots currently intend to vote to break away, but Salmond insists he can convince a majority that independence would bring economic and political benefits. Student Calum Martin, who lives near the western Scottish city of Glasgow, said he would be voting in favor of independence because he believed Scots should have a better say over how their money is spent. “Scotland is an incredibly wealthy country. This is a chance to put that wealth to much better use,” the 20-year-old said.

Scotland currently has its own parliament and a devolved government, which controls several policy areas including health and education, but other policies, such as defense and foreign affairs, are controlled by London. The “no” campaign — backed by British Prime Minister David Cameron’s government — claims Scotland is stronger as part of the larger UK, comprising England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Scottish nationalists march in Edinburgh to back independence - Taipei Times

 

[waltky]

But still too close to call at last count...

Early Scotland referendum results suggest voters reject independence
September 19, 2014 ~ Voters in Scotland turned out in unprecedented numbers for an independence referendum and early results suggested they were not in favor of ending Scotland's 307-year union with England.

With 26 of 32 regional electoral centers reporting, the No side had about 54 percent of the vote to 46 percent for the Yes side. Those against independence also scored a big win by strongly taking Aberdeen, Scotland's oil capital. The average turnout was 86 percent — a record high. Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson told the BBC she was confident the "silent majority" of Scots would deliver a No victory. Check back for updates on this breaking-news story.

EARLIER:

EDINBURGH, Scotland — From the capital of Edinburgh to the far-flung Shetland Islands, Scots embraced a historic moment — and the rest of the United Kingdom held its breath — after voters turned out in unprecedented numbers for an independence referendum that could end Scotland's 307-year union with England. Results early Friday brought cheer to the anti-independence "Better Together" camp. With 17 of 32 regional electoral centers reporting, the No side had 56.2 percent of the vote to 43.8 percent for the Yes side. The No side also scored a big win by strongly taking Aberdeen, the home city of independence leader Alex Salmond, by 59 percent to 41 percent. But results from the big cities of Edinburgh and Glasgow were still to come. The average turnout was 86 percent — a record high.

Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson told the BBC she was confident the "silent majority" of Scots would deliver a No victory. After the polls closed late Thursday, a nationwide count began immediately. Many Scots stayed up overnight in homes and bars, awaiting a result that could possibly change their lives, shake financial markets worldwide and boost other independence movements from Flanders to Catalonia to Quebec. "Why not roll the dice for once?" Yes supporter Thomas Roberts said at one Edinburgh polling station. "I'm going to sit with a beer in my hand watching the results coming in."

At Highland Hall outside of Edinburgh, where the final result will be announced later Friday, vote-counters at dozens of tables sorted through paper ballots, watched keenly by monitors from the Yes and No camps. Eager voters had lined up outside some polling stations even before they opened Thursday. More than 4.2 million people had registered to vote - 97 percent of those eligible - including residents as young as 16. For some, it was a day they had dreamed of for decades. For others, the time had finally come to make up their minds about the future — both for themselves and for the United Kingdom. "Fifty years I fought for this," said 83-year-old Isabelle Smith, a Yes supporter in Edinburgh's maritime district of Newhaven, a former fishing port. "And we are going to win. I can feel it in my bones."

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See also:

A Scottish 'Yes' also means exit from EU, NATO
September 15, 2014 — If Scottish voters this week say Yes to independence, not only will they tear up the map of Great Britain, they'll shake the twin pillars of Western Europe's postwar prosperity and security - the European Union and the U.S.-led NATO defense alliance.

In breaking away from the rest of the United Kingdom, Scotland would automatically find itself outside both the EU and NATO, and have to reapply to join both, officials from those Brussels-based organizations have stressed. For the EU especially, Scottish re-entry could be a long and arduous process, with other countries dead set against letting the Scots retain the privileges awarded Britain: the so-called opt-outs from being required to use the euro single currency and to join the multination Schengen zone where internal border controls have been scrapped.

For NATO's admirals and generals, the current Scottish government's insistence on a sovereign Scotland becoming free of nuclear weapons would pose enormous strategic and operational headaches, even if a transitional grace period were agreed on. A new home port would have to be found for the Royal Navy's four Trident missile-carrying submarines and their thermonuclear warheads, currently based on the Clyde. This "risks undermining the collective defense and deterrence of NATO allies," Britain's Ministry of Defense has said. In what might be read as a warning to the Scots, the ministry has said a nuclear-free stance could constitute a "significant" hurdle to Scotland being allowed back into NATO.

Demonstrators stand on the streets waving their "estelada" flags, that symbolizes Catalonia's independence, during a protest calling for the independence of Catalonia in Barcelona, Spain. In breaking away from the United Kingdom, Scotland would automatically find itself outside both the EU and NATO, and have to reapply to join both. Meanwhile on the continent, from Catalonia in Spain to the Dutch-speaking Flemish areas of Belgium, other European peoples that do not have their own states would likely be emboldened to follow the Scot's example.

Until Scotland rejoined the alliance, to which it's belonged with the rest of Britain for 65 years, new arrangements would also need to be found to patrol vital shipping routes in the North Atlantic and North Sea. If Scotland were to choose not to rejoin, it would pose a conundrum for NATO for which there is no real precedent: what to do following the loss of a developed, democratically governed part of alliance territory that has opted for neutrality, said Daniel Troup, research analyst at the NATO Council of Canada. Asked how NATO would react to secession, alliance secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen told The Associated Press that "should the Scottish people vote in favor of independence and should they decide to seek membership in NATO, in that case, such an application will be addressed like other applications and eventually it will need consensus, that is, unanimity among NATO allies to accept a new member of our alliance."

Rasmussen refused to say Monday what the military consequences of Scotland's independence might be for the alliance, saying, "I'm not going to interfere with the Scottish debate, and it is a hypothetical question at this stage, because we don't know the outcome of the referendum." Emergence of a new Western European country of 5 million inhabitants with roughly the land area of the Czech Republic or the U.S. state of Maine or would also set in motion political and social forces whose effects are impossible to predict. Because of British voting patterns, the political groups in England, Wales and Northern Ireland that are seeking Britain's exit from the European Union would become proportionately stronger in Parliament.

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[RetiredGySgt]

Scotland decided to stay with England.

Scottish Independence result Alex Salmond accepts Scotland has rejected independence - Yahoo News UK

 

[TheOldSchool]

Sucks for Scotland

 

[I.P.Freely]

Sucks for Scotland

I like the Jocks, so I am happy with any democratic decision they make when sober............deep fried mars bars for everyone.

 

[Politico]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

 

[I.P.Freely]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

 

[Vikrant]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Intimidation was a definite factor. There is no doubt about it.

 

[Vikrant]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

 

[Phoenall]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

No they were given the reality of the situation on things like food prices and Bank security and welfare. The many Supermarket chains in the UK had made contingency plans and had letters ready giving 90 notice of closure and redundancy due to adverse trading conditions in Scotland

 

[Politico]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

They were definitely intimidated. But what I meant was the sun has been setting on the empire for years. With Scotland gone they would have lost one third of the UK overnight.

 

[I.P.Freely]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

They were definitely intimidated. But what I meant was the sun has been setting on the empire for years. With Scotland gone they would have lost one third of the UK overnight.

For me the biggest influence for the no vote was the fear of losing EU status as it stands.This is a very bad result for Ukip.

 

[I.P.Freely]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

like what?

 

[Vikrant]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

like what?

I personally think Scottish folks psyched themselves out of this race. I think all the negativity that was hurled at them finally got to them. They started to believe the nonsense such as:

- they would lose their pension
- they won't be able to govern themselves
- their defense will be vulnerable
- etc.

The end result was they got the cold feet.

 

[Vikrant]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

They were definitely intimidated. But what I meant was the sun has been setting on the empire for years. With Scotland gone they would have lost one third of the UK overnight.

To me the oddest thing was the clear bias against Scottish folks by both media and the general population outside of Scotland. Media was civilized about its bias but the common people were downright ugly about it even on this forum. This is not the way to appeal towards unity. I think this vitriol turned out to be the biggest impetus for Yes campaign and unless some real soul searching is done, this has a potential of becoming a serious issue in future.

 

[I.P.Freely]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

like what?

I personally think Scottish folks psyched themselves out of this race. I think all the negativity that was hurled at them finally got to them. They started to believe the nonsense such as:

- they would lose their pension
- they won't be able to govern themselves
- their defense will be vulnerable
- etc.

The end result was they got the cold feet.

It must be media bias but not one Scot interviewed on TV mentioned these "threats" as a reason to vote no.

 

[Vikrant]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

like what?

I personally think Scottish folks psyched themselves out of this race. I think all the negativity that was hurled at them finally got to them. They started to believe the nonsense such as:

- they would lose their pension
- they won't be able to govern themselves
- their defense will be vulnerable
- etc.

The end result was they got the cold feet.

It must be media bias but not one Scot interviewed on TV mentioned these "threats" as a reason to vote no.

I was just trying to elaborate on what Politico may have meant by that post. Anyhow, he has since then clarified what he meant. So there is no need for me to speculate further on his post.

 

[I.P.Freely]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

They were definitely intimidated. But what I meant was the sun has been setting on the empire for years. With Scotland gone they would have lost one third of the UK overnight.

To me the oddest thing was the clear bias against Scottish folks by both media and the general population outside of Scotland. Media was civilized about its bias but the common people were downright ugly about it even on this forum. This is not the way to appeal towards unity. I think this vitriol turned out to be the biggest impetus for Yes campaign and unless some real soul searching is done, this has a potential of becoming a serious issue in future.

I would discount the nationalistic nobs here, I am proud of the percentage of residents in Scotland who voted.
Serious issue in the future

 

[Vikrant]

Betcha the UK just dropped a phew load. They are running out of nails for the coffin.

Translation please.

I think he is saying that Scots were given threats if they voted Yes.

They were definitely intimidated. But what I meant was the sun has been setting on the empire for years. With Scotland gone they would have lost one third of the UK overnight.

To me the oddest thing was the clear bias against Scottish folks by both media and the general population outside of Scotland. Media was civilized about its bias but the common people were downright ugly about it even on this forum. This is not the way to appeal towards unity. I think this vitriol turned out to be the biggest impetus for Yes campaign and unless some real soul searching is done, this has a potential of becoming a serious issue in future.

I would discount the nationalistic nobs here, I am proud of the percentage of residents in Scotland who voted.
Serious issue in the future

45% has potential to turn into 55% if nothing is done about it.

On a side note, you and Swagger are the only two English I know on this forum who refrained from calling Scottish folks sheep f******. So I commend you two for that.