CDZ Could it be too late for a viable third party?

[Billy_Kinetta]

I just had a fairly terrifying thought.

If a strong, viable and popular third party party can't rise up in the middle of THIS partisan disaster, maybe it never CAN.

Is it possible that independent and moderate voices are now so unwelcome in both "major" parties that they will no longer be allowed to see the light of day? Did we, as country, shut the door to independent and moderate thought so quickly and so firmly that they simply no longer have a place?

I hope I'm wrong here.
.

We don't really need a third party, but an American replacement for the socialist one.

you think that because YOU are a deranged right winger.

rational people understand that BOTH PARTIES are "too far gone" in their ideological directions.

Au contraire, though the Republicans have some serious spinal problems, particularly their fear of media reaction in favor of the Democrats, they are still essentially American.

On the other hand, the Democrat cheese has slipped entirely off the American cracker, and they have become a foreign entity that holds political power here. That must end.

 

[Mac1958]

Figured out that you can't beat Trump, huh?

Believe it or not, there's a far bigger picture to this.

It's a...

Oh, never mind.
.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Figured out that you can't beat Trump, huh?

Believe it or not, there's a far bigger picture to this.

It's a...

Oh, never mind.
.

Trump got and will get elected because Americans said FU to the establishment.

You hating that defines you.

 

[Mac1958]

Figured out that you can't beat Trump, huh?

Believe it or not, there's a far bigger picture to this.

It's a...

Oh, never mind.
.

Trump got and will get elected because Americans said FU to the establishment.

You hating that defines you.

Well, when I become a hateful person, I'll let you know.

Meanwhile, you keep saying "FU".
.

 

[anynameyouwish]

I just had a fairly terrifying thought.

If a strong, viable and popular third party party can't rise up in the middle of THIS partisan disaster, maybe it never CAN.

Is it possible that independent and moderate voices are now so unwelcome in both "major" parties that they will no longer be allowed to see the light of day? Did we, as country, shut the door to independent and moderate thought so quickly and so firmly that they simply no longer have a place?

I hope I'm wrong here.
.

I’m pretty sure we just witnessed the birth of the Socialist Party at the debates the last few nights. Although I suppose the traditional liberals will need to break from the Democrat Party and form a new party since that party has been highjacked by socialists and batshit crazy Social Justice Terrorists.

The Dems have moved to the Left because they sense Trump has given them the opening to do so.

There are two parties in this disaster, not just one.
.

I agree with ALL of the following;


1. >>> It's not about "Left vs. Right". It's about the FUNDAMENTALISTS on BOTH ends vs. a MAJORITY of America. THAT is MY "side of the fence".
3. >>> The Political Horseshoe Theory Says Right And Left Wing Are More similar in their behaviors than they'll ever be willing to admit

 

[Weatherman2020]

Figured out that you can't beat Trump, huh?

Believe it or not, there's a far bigger picture to this.

It's a...

Oh, never mind.
.

Trump got and will get elected because Americans said FU to the establishment.

You hating that defines you.

Well, when I become a hateful person, I'll let you know.

Meanwhile, you keep saying "FU".
.

No shock you don’t hate the DC establishment, that was my point.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Figured out that you can't beat Trump, huh?

Believe it or not, there's a far bigger picture to this.

It's a...

Oh, never mind.
.

The bigger picture is your love of the establishment. The deep state is a comfort to you, big brother loves you.

 

[JoeB131]

Why would disenfranchising 48 states be a problem?

You Stalinists are shocking.

Why would only letting them have the votes they have be disenfranchising?

Also, name calling not allowed in CDZ.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Why would disenfranchising 48 states be a problem?

You Stalinists are shocking.

Why would only letting them have the votes they have be disenfranchising?

Also, name calling not allowed in CDZ.

The 2 sheep get to vote the same as the 3 wolves. What’s the big deal?

And Stalinist is a badge of honor for you, don’t deny it.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay the problem with OP is that they don't understand how third party movements evolve..

Third parties do not evolve because both parties have hit "Extremes". Third parties evolve when both parties are in agreement on a basic issue that is no longer being addressed.

The last major Third Party Movement of note was Ross Perot. The thing was, that he didn't campaign on a centrist position. His position was a outside the mainstream one at the time, that Free Trade was bad and that we should balance the budget, no matter what. Both parties were largely in agreement on Trade and Deficits. So what happened was he made a big splash in 1992, a smaller one in 1996, and by 2000, the Reform Party was a bag of unattended money that any fringe could grab. (Which is how it nominated Pat Buchanan in 2000, but Ralph Nader in 2004). In the process, Clinton coopted his deficit message and the Trade issue eventually became Trump's.

The last third party that actually won some electors and threatened to throw the election into Congress was 1968, when George Wallace ran the American Independent Party, which was really a party that ran on Segregation when the major parties had agreed on civil rights. One could argue it was coopted by Nixon's Southern Strategy, which welcomed the racists into the GOP with open arms, but Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton still managed to do okay in Southern States after that.

So at the end of the day, Moderates won't rise up and form a third party. They'll decide what they can live with. If the Democrats nominate someone who is out there and the economy continues to do well, they'll probably hold their noses and vote for Trump. If the economy tanks, and the Democrats nominated someone who sounds sensible after the primaries, then Trump is toast.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Why would disenfranchising 48 states be a problem?

You Stalinists are shocking.

Why would only letting them have the votes they have be disenfranchising?

Also, name calling not allowed in CDZ.

Setting the election so that only two states have a voice is the definition of disenfranchisement.

The Stalinist party is the driving force behind this attack on our Constitution. It is the proper name of your party.

The other reason the Left want to eliminate the EC is it makes cheating easy.

Finding bad votes in a county versus in 50 States.

 

[night_son]

I just had a fairly terrifying thought.

If a strong, viable and popular third party party can't rise up in the middle of THIS partisan disaster, maybe it never CAN.

Is it possible that independent and moderate voices are now so unwelcome in both "major" parties that they will no longer be allowed to see the light of day? Did we, as country, shut the door to independent and moderate thought so quickly and so firmly that they simply no longer have a place?

I hope I'm wrong here.
.

My first thought? How would said hypothetical "moderate" third party fair or gain a large enough following on social media which has become the de facto fuel of everything political? Second thought? Sources of funding, recognition by our current party's . . . I'm not seeing it.

 

[Mac1958]

I just had a fairly terrifying thought.

If a strong, viable and popular third party party can't rise up in the middle of THIS partisan disaster, maybe it never CAN.

Is it possible that independent and moderate voices are now so unwelcome in both "major" parties that they will no longer be allowed to see the light of day? Did we, as country, shut the door to independent and moderate thought so quickly and so firmly that they simply no longer have a place?

I hope I'm wrong here.
.

My first thought? How would said hypothetical "moderate" third party fair or gain a large enough following on social media which has become the de facto fuel of everything political? Second thought? Sources of funding, recognition by our current party's . . . I'm not seeing it.

I'm afraid you're probably right. I also think that people with more a moderate outlook on things will tend to be less politically active, particularly in today's ugly, toxic, pugilistic environment. It's just not the way they're built.

So, this just continues to decay. The nihilist in me is curious to see how bad this gets.
.

 

[sartre play]

That's the real problem Mac, my fear is that if things continue in the same direction in 2 years more or less most will wake up in a world we really wont like.

 

[MarathonMike]

I just had a fairly terrifying thought.

If a strong, viable and popular third party party can't rise up in the middle of THIS partisan disaster, maybe it never CAN.

Is it possible that independent and moderate voices are now so unwelcome in both "major" parties that they will no longer be allowed to see the light of day? Did we, as country, shut the door to independent and moderate thought so quickly and so firmly that they simply no longer have a place?

I hope I'm wrong here.
.

That ship sailed 50 years ago. The last real opportunity for a viable third party would have been Goldwater in the 60s IMO.

 

[JoeB131]

The other reason the Left want to eliminate the EC is it makes cheating easy.

Finding bad votes in a county versus in 50 States.

Yet your party is the one that wants to suppress voting.. why is that?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I just had a fairly terrifying thought.

If a strong, viable and popular third party party can't rise up in the middle of THIS partisan disaster, maybe it never CAN.

Is it possible that independent and moderate voices are now so unwelcome in both "major" parties that they will no longer be allowed to see the light of day? Did we, as country, shut the door to independent and moderate thought so quickly and so firmly that they simply no longer have a place?

I hope I'm wrong here.
.

I read quite a few of the responses, but wanted to chime in before becoming too influenced and getting into side arguments that have little to do with my intended response.

If your over 40 or so you have witnessed cataclysmic changes in society and in government. Normal and abnormal have changed places. Some examples would be attitudes toward inter-racial marriage, gays, the free market versus socialism, privacy Rights, gun Rights, etc., etc. America is at least 160 degrees opposite of what the founders intended.

Last year I graduated after studying theology and on tv I see a need for the kinds of help I would offer those in need. I'm not about getting everybody paid up and prayed up and not into handouts. America needs people who will help them get back on track. They've lost their moral compass; they don't have a vision for tomorrow because the politicians can't show them one. People are unemployed, underemployed, and millions are screwed up due to drugs (whether legal or illegal), dysfunctional households, and questionable values.

As an old phart, I know that most Americans don't vote and a lot of them that do always believe they are voting for the lesser of two evils. The key is we do need a third party made up of people that actually have the same values as our ancestors when they created our Republic. The problem we have is not the MSM or the other two parties. Our problem is getting those who are tired of the status quo to commit to some common ideas (much like the founders did when they signed the Declaration of Independence.) Once that is done we need people who can harness the inherent power of the Internet to convey the new ideas.

You can bitch all day long about what's wrong, but what you need is a platform - something that the disenfranchised can relate to. Then you ignore the MSM, the two party system and build from the ground up. You'd be amazed at how fast the political scenery would change.

 

[Disir]

I just had a fairly terrifying thought.

If a strong, viable and popular third party party can't rise up in the middle of THIS partisan disaster, maybe it never CAN.

Is it possible that independent and moderate voices are now so unwelcome in both "major" parties that they will no longer be allowed to see the light of day? Did we, as country, shut the door to independent and moderate thought so quickly and so firmly that they simply no longer have a place?

I hope I'm wrong here.
.

IF you are unwilling to focus on the issues and continue with the theatrics then no you won't see one.

Choose your path.

 

[Mac1958]

Choose your path.

I have.
.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It’s long been too late for a third party – ‘viable’ or otherwise.

And appropriately so: the notion that a third party would somehow ‘improve’ the current political condition is naïve and devoid of merit.

Like other top-down ‘solutions’ such as term limits and BBAs, a third party would do nothing to increase political participation, would not afford voters ‘better’ candidates, or otherwise ‘challenge’ the Democratic or Republican Parties.

True, actual political reform can succeed only at the very local level, one community at a time, regardless what party reformers might belong to.