Could it be Obama was RIGHT about GM?

[Care4all]

I have NO PROBLEMS with a corporation building their product in the country they are selling it to....this makes sense to me.

building things in china just to import them here, can be problematic in a few ways....

 

[xsited1]

Could it be Obama was RIGHT about GM?

Obama was wrong about GM and so were many Republicans. Some Republicans remember how important the auto makers were during WW-II and believe they should be kept afloat at all costs. Taxpayers should never be on the hook to bail out private companies and definitely not be forced to bail out companies that have made terrible decisions time and again. That's just common sense. I don't care how much better GM is doing now.

Imagine how many start-up companies never came into existence because taxpayers were forced to bail-out a failing company? I have no doubt that better, more productive companies would have taken GM's place. Unfortunately, Obama intervened to maintain the status quo and we will all suffer as a result.

you can disagree with bail outs, and i am with you 100%...

BUT what is done is done....and we must move onward from there and WISH the very best for GM at this point in the game....hoping for their success is wishing for our own success, which is getting our money back, by them being successful and the value of the company's stock going up.

As with every thing in life, one must decide on where to go from any given moment...and in this moment, I wish for GM'S success!!!!

I disagree. If GM continues to operate like they have been for decades, they should fail for the good of the country. Losing taxpayer money that Congress and Obama gave away is a small price to pay. Otherwise, we are not only throwing good money after bad, but we are stifling progress and innovation in America.

 

[California Girl]

SHANGHAI (AP) -- General Motors Co. said Monday demand in China is so strong that the company's annual sales may top 2 million vehicles this year -- four years ahead of schedule -- and could exceed 3 million by 2015.

GM is counting on robust growth in China, India and other emerging markets to help offset weakness in its home U.S. market as the Detroit automaker struggles to return to health after its near-collapse in 2009.

The company, which reported a $3.4 billion loss in the last quarter of 2009, plans to pay off billions of dollars in loans from the U.S. government by June, five years ahead of schedule, and says it could report a profit as early as this year.

GM China Sales May Exceed 3M Units By 2015

If we had listened to the Republicans, General Motors would be dead and gone. So many more people out of work. Not just those that work at General Motors, but also all the suppliers, engineers. Plus the people who work in any community around GM.

I wonder how much interest the US is getting from GM loans?

You have to admit, so far, Republicans have a "perfect" score. Wrong about everything.

Wrong about Iraq

Wrong about Afghanistan

Wrong about the economy

Wrong about health care

Just, well, "wrong".

Are you honestly trying to tell me that it is Obama who knows stuff and not the experts he has working for him?

I like to give credit where credit is due. If Obama is right about anything - it is because he listened to the right people. That's not exactly rocket science...... moron.

But..... congratulations on posting a whole comment without mentioning that only 6% of scientists are Republicans. Really - that is progress!

 

[Care4all]

Obama was wrong about GM and so were many Republicans. Some Republicans remember how important the auto makers were during WW-II and believe they should be kept afloat at all costs. Taxpayers should never be on the hook to bail out private companies and definitely not be forced to bail out companies that have made terrible decisions time and again. That's just common sense. I don't care how much better GM is doing now.

Imagine how many start-up companies never came into existence because taxpayers were forced to bail-out a failing company? I have no doubt that better, more productive companies would have taken GM's place. Unfortunately, Obama intervened to maintain the status quo and we will all suffer as a result.

you can disagree with bail outs, and i am with you 100%...

BUT what is done is done....and we must move onward from there and WISH the very best for GM at this point in the game....hoping for their success is wishing for our own success, which is getting our money back, by them being successful and the value of the company's stock going up.

As with every thing in life, one must decide on where to go from any given moment...and in this moment, I wish for GM'S success!!!!

I disagree. If GM continues to operate like they have been for decades, they should fail for the good of the country. Losing taxpayer money that Congress and Obama gave away is a small price to pay. Otherwise, we are not only throwing good money after bad, but we are stifling progress and innovation in America.

oh i agree, IF THEY CONTINUED to manage the company the way they had....BUT THAT is not the case, now is it? or is this too hard to discern at this point?

oh, and their first bailout was done by Bush, and his advisors....you left that out by accident, i suppose?

 

[Neubarth]

oh i agree, IF THEY CONTINUED to manage the company the way they had....BUT THAT is not the case, now is it? or is this too hard to discern at this point?

oh, and their first bailout was done by Bush, and his advisors....you left that out by accident, i suppose?

A lot of people here leave out facts if they get in the way of their religion or politics. That is what makes it fun.

 

[The Rabbi]

It was Bush who extended the bailout to the auto companies, after Congress refused to do so.
Score another for ending the failed policies of George W Bush.

Anyway, the "bankruptcy" GM went through was a sham. All it did was strip the bondholders of their rights and their property and give it to the unions. Nothing at GM has changed. Without interest payments to bondholders, of course their P&L will look spiffy.
But they did not address the main problem with GM, which is high cost structure. Toyota in '06 sold like 100M cars and made a huge profit. GM sold the same number and made a huge loss. What's wrong here?
Union featherbeading is the culprit with over-generous contracts for workers. Even though GM looks OK now, that is due mainly to lack of interest payments. Their operating margins are going to be the same, since they have the same basic cost structure as before. In a few years the company will be back to where it was, and the taxpayer will have gotten it in the shorts.
And where Obama got the authority to fire a CEO is beyond me.

 

[eagleseven]

I have NO PROBLEMS with a corporation building their product in the country they are selling it to....this makes sense to me.

building things in china just to import them here, can be problematic in a few ways....

Problem is, at what point do they become a Chinese company run by American execs? China could easily confiscate GM with our debt.

You'll be able to purchase the first Asian-manufactured GM vehicle in 2011...the Chevrolet Spark.

 

[Care4all]

I have NO PROBLEMS with a corporation building their product in the country they are selling it to....this makes sense to me.

building things in china just to import them here, can be problematic in a few ways....

Problem is, at what point do they become a Chinese company run by American execs? China could easily confiscate GM with our debt.

You'll be able to purchase the first Asian-manufactured GM vehicle in 2011...the Chevrolet Spark.

I don't think they can legally do something like that...steal from a private business... and we ARE paying our interest payment to China on time, so no real worries there Eagle....

But it only makes sense to manufacture product in the country you are selling it to in most cases, just to save on shipping costs and shipping time...

That is why it is surprising that the USA does not produce more here.....?

China and other country's labor is just soooooo sooooo soooo cheap...about 10 years ago we started to manufacture some shoes in Viet Nam, just to see if it would or could work out...the factory workers there got paid $550 A YEAR to work there and this was nearly $200 dollars more a year than the average person in viet nam....granted, this was near 10 years ago....but still!!!! Americans can NOT compete with those kind of labor costs...even if it is labor costs plus freight and Duty costs for the imports, Americans can not compete with that...other than being smarter and more productive...producing much more per hour than the person in Viet Nam...but even then, those kind of labor costs are hard to beat...

China's labor costs have GONE UP over the years....not as much as they should have, but they still have gone up a sizeable amount...supposedly, the gurus who believe in globalesque economies say that it should all even out one day...where the chinese worker gets paid much more and eventually the labor costs in the usa won't be so high...giving us a stronger manufacturing base again...but honestly, it ain't happening as quick as they proclaimed it would...

 

[The Rabbi]

You are confusing labor costs with unit labor costs. They aren't the same.
Some products from China have lower unit labor costs than the U.S. Some have higher costs. Generally low skilled high volume manufacturing can be done more efficiently in China but higher skilled manufacturing is still done here.
The only thing likely to change there is to substitute Vietnam for China, since labor costs are even lower there. After that probably Africa.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Do cars sold in China have to meet the California emission or CAFE standards?

What was Obama supposedly right about?

 

[tigerbob]

we're providing taxpayer money to fund a corporation that is manufacturing and selling cars in china?

You see nothing wrong with this?

gm is a global business.

soon to be a global business with it's home base in beijing.
Detroit will be a field for growing biofuel to sell them so they can drive their chevy's.
I can hear monsanto's bulldozers from here.

ok.

 

[Care4all]

Do cars sold in China have to meet the California emission or CAFE standards?

that is a very interesting question...I would like to know the answer to it myself!

 

[The Rabbi]

Do cars sold in China have to meet the California emission or CAFE standards?

that is a very interesting question...I would like to know the answer to it myself!

I think that's a joke.
No obviously not. Only cars sold here need to meet CAFE, to my knowledge. It wouldnt matter where they were made. Similarly it wouldnt matter where they were sold if outside of the US.

 

[rdean]

Do cars sold in China have to meet the California emission or CAFE standards?

What was Obama supposedly right about?

Obama was right about supporting American companies so hundreds of thousands of US Citizens keep their jobs. Even on "Morning Joe", Conservative Joe Scarborough mentioned that the US made billions from those "loans". Turns out they were NOT a take over. Another Republican lie debunked by a Republican conservative. It just keeps getting better.

 

[The Rabbi]

Do cars sold in China have to meet the California emission or CAFE standards?

What was Obama supposedly right about?

Obama was right about supporting American companies so hundreds of thousands of US Citizens keep their jobs. Even on "Morning Joe", Conservative Joe Scarborough mentioned that the US made billions from those "loans". Turns out they were NOT a take over. Another Republican lie debunked by a Republican conservative. It just keeps getting better.

You mean so hundreds of thousands of union workers can keep their jobs. Let's not forget the unions have bought and paid for Obama.

 

[eagleseven]

I don't think they can legally do something like that...steal from a private business... and we ARE paying our interest payment to China on time, so no real worries there Eagle....

Ever wonder why we hate Hugo Chavez? He nationalized their oil industry, effectively stealing all American wells in Venezuela. The same thing happened in Iran after World War 2 (which directly led to the situation today).

It's technically not legal, but are we going to invade China for breaking international law?

But it only makes sense to manufacture product in the country you are selling it to in most cases, just to save on shipping costs and shipping time...

Generally speaking, yes, unless you're a small country like Iceland or Switzerland.

That is why it is surprising that the USA does not produce more here.....?

Because we've lost our competitive advantage. The cost of overseas shipping is far less than the cost of hiring American workers. If American workers accepted $10,000 annual salaries, there would be more factory jobs than factory workers.

China and other country's labor is just soooooo sooooo soooo cheap...about 10 years ago we started to manufacture some shoes in Viet Nam, just to see if it would or could work out...the factory workers there got paid $550 A YEAR to work there and this was nearly $200 dollars more a year than the average person in viet nam....granted, this was near 10 years ago....but still!!!! Americans can NOT compete with those kind of labor costs...even if it is labor costs plus freight and Duty costs for the imports, Americans can not compete with that...other than being smarter and more productive...producing much more per hour than the person in Viet Nam...but even then, those kind of labor costs are hard to beat...

Precisely. Things will balance out, with a net gain for the Chinese worker, and a net loss for the American worker.

Tis the most effective way to cure world poverty.

China's labor costs have GONE UP over the years....not as much as they should have, but they still have gone up a sizeable amount...supposedly, the gurus who believe in globalesque economies say that it should all even out one day...where the chinese worker gets paid much more and eventually the labor costs in the usa won't be so high...giving us a stronger manufacturing base again...but honestly, it ain't happening as quick as they proclaimed it would...

Believe it or not, China is beginning to outsource to Africa, because African workers cost even less than Chinese workers.

Eventually, all blue-collar work will pay as much as the poorest African worker makes, at which point Africa will no longer be a 3rd-world continent.

 

[xsited1]

you can disagree with bail outs, and i am with you 100%...

BUT what is done is done....and we must move onward from there and WISH the very best for GM at this point in the game....hoping for their success is wishing for our own success, which is getting our money back, by them being successful and the value of the company's stock going up.

As with every thing in life, one must decide on where to go from any given moment...and in this moment, I wish for GM'S success!!!!

I disagree. If GM continues to operate like they have been for decades, they should fail for the good of the country. Losing taxpayer money that Congress and Obama gave away is a small price to pay. Otherwise, we are not only throwing good money after bad, but we are stifling progress and innovation in America.

oh i agree, IF THEY CONTINUED to manage the company the way they had....BUT THAT is not the case, now is it? or is this too hard to discern at this point?

oh, and their first bailout was done by Bush, and his advisors....you left that out by accident, i suppose?

It's definitely too hard to discern at this point, especially since you've got union ownership of GM. If in 5 years things are going well for GM, I'll change my opinion, but I don't expect anything to change for the better, especially since the government is there to save GM from themselves. And, yes, the first bailout was done by Bush which is why I mentioned that some Republicans were for the bailouts in my original post. And Obama (who we shall call Bush-III) is just continuing the failed policies of the past. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Do cars sold in China have to meet the California emission or CAFE standards?

What was Obama supposedly right about?

Obama was right about supporting American companies so hundreds of thousands of US Citizens keep their jobs. Even on "Morning Joe", Conservative Joe Scarborough mentioned that the US made billions from those "loans". Turns out they were NOT a take over. Another Republican lie debunked by a Republican conservative. It just keeps getting better.

A reorganization bankruptcy would have allowed GM to get a handle on their busted pension and labor costs, alas, the US taxpayer is now, once again, the sucker of last resort.

We made money? Yeah? Hows the $125Billion + we have in Fannie and Freddie doing, are you counting that at all?

 

[boedicca]

We're already into bailing out FM/FM for $400B+.