Corporatism, Über Alles

[dblack]

Perhaps the biggest disappointment with Roberts caving on the mandate, was the missed opportunity to stem the tide, and push back against the growing trend of corporatist government.

In light of that, I'd like to discuss the ways in which corporatism dominates our governance and permeates the legislative and executive roles as performed by both major parties. And maybe how we might fight it.

** I'd ask anyone commenting here to take the time to understand the term. Most people don't, frankly, assuming it refers to big business controlling government or something like that. This wikipedia article covers it pretty well.

 

[konradv]

Perhaps the biggest disappointment with Roberts caving on the mandate, was the missed opportunity to stem the tide, and push back against the growing trend of corporatist government.

In light of that, I'd like to discuss the ways in which corporatism dominates our governance and permeates the legislative and executive roles as performed by both major parties. And maybe how we might fight it.

** I'd ask anyone commenting here to take the time to understand the term. Most people don't, frankly, assuming it refers to big business controlling government or something like that. This wikipedia article covers it pretty well.

Whatever it means, I don't see how it fits in this debate. Making sure people have insurance means we won't have to pay for as much free care of the uninsured by choice. How is eliminating the freeloaders who can afford insurance, a bad thing?

 

[dblack]

Whatever it means, I don't see how it fits in this debate.

Hmm.. well, maybe when you've learned what it means, you'll understand how it fits, eh?

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL. Well, the 'Conservatives' are blubbering and doing the sack cloth and ashes number.

In the meantime, the rest of us need to start pushing for a real health care system. Look at what the rest of the industrial nations are doing, how they are getting better results than we are, and where there are problems in their systems. The design a system of our own that takes the best points of their systems, and avoids the problems. This is what Taiwan did, and it has worked out well for them.

 

[dblack]

0 for 2 ....

Anyway, the real irony of the dominance of corporatist government is that we've been preoccupied with the supposed struggle between classical liberalism and Marxism - and ended up with something that is the opposite of both of them at the same time. Both of those philosophies are essentially egalitarian, whereas corporatism embraces "class" and group rights, using it as the central organizing vehicle for society.

 

[flacaltenn]

No offense dblack -- but the time for philosophy is over..

We need to go check the basic premises of how we lost this country. And get some do-ers out there to manifest a political revolution..

The people voting there have ZERO interest in definitions or grad level poly sci.. They have learned that their personal interests lie in getting "free" stuff. And corporatism is just another example of that..

 

[dblack]

No offense dblack -- but the time for philosophy is over..

We need to go check the basic premises of how we lost this country. And get some do-ers out there to manifest a political revolution..

No offense taken, but I think you're wrong. Philosophy is the foundation all this rests on. It might not be sexy, but it drives the movements and the doers that actually make a difference.

Re: Corporatism, it's our mis-identifying what's going on - letting ourselves be distracted by irrelevant partisan bickering while our nation is undergoing a fundamental structural transition - that will bit us in the ass if we don't wake up.

 

[flacaltenn]

No offense dblack -- but the time for philosophy is over..

We need to go check the basic premises of how we lost this country. And get some do-ers out there to manifest a political revolution..

No offense taken, but I think you're wrong. Philosophy is the foundation all this rests on. It might not be sexy, but it drives the movements and the doers that actually make a difference.

Re: Corporatism, it's our mis-identifying what's going on - letting ourselves be distracted by irrelevant partisan bickering while our nation is undergoing a fundamental structural transition - that will bit us in the ass if we don't wake up.

You're never gonna get that message out there.. The DEMS already villify everything corporations stand for -- so you'd be preaching to the REPS about how they are mistaking corporate handouts for "tax relief". And the majority of voters who AREN'T philosophical at all about their choice will be unaffected by your non-partisian objectivity. In fact, they won't even understand the CONCEPT of looking at things from a party neutral standpoint..

My bet is they'll stare you in face and ask you if you're a Dem or a Rep.. AND then summarily dismiss you when you answer that you are a 3rd party creature.

BTW: Name a do-er outside of 3rd party marginalized politics that's "driven by philosophy".. That's the real problem...

 

[dblack]

Name a do-er outside of 3rd party marginalized politics that's "driven by philosophy".. That's the real problem...

Obama, for starters. That's the whole point really. In modeling his leadership style on FDR he has firmly embraced corporatism.

Bush, and the neo-cons have their roots in the academic and philosophical work of Leo Strauss. And part of what drove them from power, in conjunction with their own missteps, was a raised awareness of the philosophy they were acting on. "Neo-con" became a dirty word as people recognized it as a cynical, war-mongering ideology.

So, no, I don't think it's futile to raise awareness of the central philosophy of our government. Especially when it is so insidious, and so under-the-radar to most pundits.

 

[flacaltenn]

Name a do-er outside of 3rd party marginalized politics that's "driven by philosophy".. That's the real problem...

Obama, for starters. That's the whole point really. In modeling his leadership style on FDR he has firmly embraced corporatism.

Bush, and the neo-cons have their roots in the academic and philosophical work of Leo Strauss. And part of what drove them from power, in conjunction with their own missteps, was a raised awareness of the philosophy they were acting on. "Neo-con" became a dirty word as people recognized it as a cynical, war-mongering ideology.

So, no, I don't think it's futile to raise awareness of the central philosophy of our government. Especially when it is so insidious, and so under-the-radar to most pundits.

Whatever Bush understood about Conservative philosophy didn't really matter in practice.

Obama is a dedicated idealogue. One that could NEVER utter or PRACTICE his true beliefs unless he became a lame duck. If he had the BALLS to let loose a Progressive agenda in his NEXT 4 yrs, it would hobble the Dem party for a lifetime. (fortunately).

We've got 535 Fed representatives and other than Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders, they will do ANYTHING to get re-elected and hand-out rewards to their constituents.

Trying to solve the mess we're in by prostelytizing philosophy, the masses are gonna aim the clicker at you and change to the Jersey Shore gang..

 

[dblack]

Trying to solve the mess we're in by prostelytizing philosophy, the masses are gonna aim the clicker at you and change to the Jersey Shore gang..

Listen, I'm not addressing "the masses", and I'm not trying to "solve" anything. I'm just looking to discuss something I think it really dangerous and is being ignored by our media and even most people who consider themselves politically aware.

Movements grow from ideological underpinnings and understanding them is important. If you don't want to waste your time discussing it, fine. But you're missing the boat - and just plain wrong - to say it doesn't matter. Anyway, I'm not clear what you're going for here. Do you think I should shut up about it or something?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Keep in mind, conservatives generally love the Paul Ryan budget plan, which includes a requirement that if you want Medicare coverage,

you're going to have to use your payroll taxes to buy private insurance.

 

[dblack]

Keep in mind, conservatives generally love the Paul Ryan budget plan, which includes a requirement that if you want Medicare coverage,

you're going to have to use your payroll taxes to buy private insurance.

???

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Dblack, i think this is over these folks heads completely except for maybe one.

Now, how do we combat corporatism? I don't really see how we can and i don't say that lightly. It has established itself as the shadowy hallmark of our legislature and legal system. It would take an act of mass awakening to get these parasites off our politicians and vice versa. That is the thing about corporatism. It is a cozy relationship with corp AND govt. officials. You have to chop off both heads at the same time.

The only solution i see is not attainable, adn the latest SCOTUS ruling proves that. That is, to remove the lip lock of power that govt. has over the interstate commerce clause and remove them from the market place altogether. I dont ever see that happening. So I guess we just have to ride it out until it breaks (and it will) and the centralization of power is demolished.

 

[flacaltenn]

Trying to solve the mess we're in by prostelytizing philosophy, the masses are gonna aim the clicker at you and change to the Jersey Shore gang..

Listen, I'm not addressing "the masses", and I'm not trying to "solve" anything. I'm just looking to discuss something I think it really dangerous and is being ignored by our media and even most people who consider themselves politically aware.

Movements grow from ideological underpinnings and understanding them is important. If you don't want to waste your time discussing it, fine. But you're missing the boat - and just plain wrong - to say it doesn't matter. Anyway, I'm not clear what you're going for here. Do you think I should shut up about it or something?

Nope.. Have at it. It's a noble thing.

I'd even take a swipe at discussing it with you if my country wasn't circling the drain.. But right now -- I'm taking time off to work for REAL QUICK relief to our problems before a true revolution is necessary to take it back.. To your credit -- part of that REAL QUICK fix is to end corp/govt collusion AND other forms of redistribution.