Corporations vs Private Enterprise

Discussion in 'Economy' started by RodISHI, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. RodISHI
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    RodISHI Gold Member

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    Can anyone here define the difference between corporate enterprises verses private enterprise?

    I've long considered the two to be different. A corporation that sells stock to the public and privately own company are worlds apart. It appears to me that corporations run by a few people with large national or multinational payrolls and payouts to multiple investors is more in line with a form of communism than a democracy. Any thoughts on this from anyone here?
     
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  2. STAND4LIBERTY
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    STAND4LIBERTY Independent Libertarian

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    Personally I think you're off the mark with the distinction you're attempting to make, the problem with large national/multinational corporations doesn't have anything to do with the fact that they are able to raise capital on the public equities markets, the root of the problem is that because of their scale they have FAR too much political influence and thus are able to do things which degrade competition (the lifeblood of any free market economy). I'm not a big fan of limited liability and corporate personhood either but that's a whole different debate I think.

    In other words the marriage of government & business is the problem, the solution is to limit the scope of government so that it doesn't have the power to tilt the playing field in favor of it's corporate sponsors. Governments only role in the marketplace should be to maintain free & fair competition, unfortunately they've gone way, way beyond that thanks to the collectivists, corporatists and central planners that have been running things for over a century.
     
  3. RodISHI
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    RodISHI Gold Member

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    Can you put that into simpleton terms for me?

    I agree way too much power by large corporations. It is not that I have a problem with people making a buck but when large companies take the stance that they have the right to drive a small company out of business by whatever means is available to them and the little guy is given little to no recourse we no longer have a free society.

    And how do we get to that point where government governs properly to maintain the "free & fair competition"? I look around me and talk to the people I know around here and it looks like a train wreck to me. Corporates buy land that family farms used to maintain and the family farms that have held on for years are now going down due to people coming in and buying up land for record prices. Then they are putting that land into government subsidized programs to be paid for not farming the land. The local tax assessor raises the taxes on the local family farm land to the point where he is forced into a position he must sell a portion of that land to survive or sell out to a government program that he does not want to be involved in. His cows and crops no longer pay enough to take care of his bills and take care of his family.

    I look back to what happened to my mine and think is this what all private enterprises face? Either sell out or be taken out by force. And then I ask where is justice, where is that freedom I was promised growing up in this country.
     
  4. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    I think most government corruption ends up being over private contracts with private companies.

    Or this is where the most waste/fraud/corruption occurs.

    In the private sector, corruption increases the cost of business through the price of illicit payments themselves, the management cost of negotiating with officials, and the risk of breached agreements or detection. Although some claim corruption reduces costs by cutting red tape, the availability of bribes can also induce officials to contrive new rules and delays. Openly removing costly and lengthy regulations are better than covertly allowing them to be bypassed by using bribes. Where corruption inflates the cost of business, it also distorts the playing field, shielding firms with connections from competition and thereby sustaining inefficient firms.
     
  5. STAND4LIBERTY
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    STAND4LIBERTY Independent Libertarian

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    I think you already illustrated what I was saying rather nicely yourself, 'cept maybe you didn't ask yourself the question, who is supplying the "FORCE" in that equation? There is no justice in that and no that isn't what the founding fathers envisioned when they dreamed of a free nation.

    If government is limited to only protecting fair & free competition than it has no force that can be used as a club to drive anyone out of business, since doing so would necessatite NOT protecting fair & free competition. If we wanted to start along this path I think we the people could demand as starting point:

    1.) a regulatory frame work that was applied equally to all market participants (no favoritism)
    2.) that regulatory costs be quantitified prior to enactment
    3.) that regulation undergo continous review and update to remove unintended costs & consequences
    4.) regulations only goal be to protect competition in the marketplace, no social experiments, no wealth redistribution, no "legislated morality", etc.., etc..,.
     
  6. RodISHI
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    RodISHI Gold Member

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    The "FORCE" in my case came from the government, the court and the local law enforcement.... You know I think back and I was so busy fending off alligators I had not considered the one federal agency that came in and gave me shit. I was fined for my so claimed equipment they did not like while it was not operating. A few good ole boys at the state level were lacky's for the corporates and they did their fair share to hold me up at every turn..... All they did though was slow progress it did not stand when I asked for help from those in higher positions.

    If I had not allowed the banker to convince me that an SBA loan was the way to go it may have made a difference. Not sure on that it can only be speculation. In talking to SBA guys in DC and a few locally their opinion was if SBA had not subbed out their services this whole ordeal we went through could have never went down the way it did. SBA, would not have concurred with calling my loan since there was so much business inference. SBA, would not have shorted my loan funds either. I would have still had the state boys and the few feds from MSHA harassing me with petty issues. It would have not stopped whoever it was dumping dirt into my fuel tanks and those types of vandalism from occurring. Yet I may have had a fighting chance when I discovered my initial equipment had been sent to me designed to fail from the factory. I'm sure SBA would not have taken the lawsuit against the manufacturer for bowing up my secondary machine and had it dismissed like Wells Fargo did. SBA, would have wanted to have the opportunity to recover the money loaned out. Then of course I cannot say that for positive because I'm sure SBA has it's fair share of sellouts in that government organization too. The majority in SBA that I spoke with though did not hit me as being sellouts yet they also had superiors that directed their involvement or lack of.

    Even at that the local law enforcement went out of the boundaries that were set by legislators and enforced by the courts. After that a corrupted judge got hold of the case and law meant nothing.

    I could not afford another attorney that had not already sold out (had no clue the one we had actually worked for the bank)... The legal authorities ignored the abuse that was taking place. Whether it was payoffs or favors I can't say for sure. I can say that I was not afforded the most basic civil liberties that we are supposed to be endowed with here in this country.

    On the one stolen dozer incident that started the ball rolling the local prosecutor waited two years before even reading the report I sent her. She must have thrown the original in the trash as I had to provide her with a new copy two years later...While she was looking at the file copies of canceled checks she decided, "Oh, my God he really stole that dozer!" speaking of the sheriff here.

    I agree with setting regulations yet limiting those regulations as much as possible. How do you get those regulations fair and balanced? Then how do you get those regulations enforced? I mean I'm looking at this from a perspective that the power is already in the hands of giants. We are subsidized to death by every bullshit program one can consider. This last round of bailouts I think was the kicker that dropped the props out on everyone. We have had laws/regulations that limited monopolies, shouldn't we keep some of these giants from being such giants that are able to gain so much power that they can rule the masses with every little whim they might have? I have heard that the Glass Steagal Act is what prevented this from happening with banks and insurance companies....What do you do to rectify what has already happened. Tell everyone tough, pick up any marbles you may have left and let the guy that stripped the wealth of the innocent get off scott free for his trouble? Only so they can return back into power managing the masses with no regulatory agency to stop them.


    I can't go along with current redistributing wealth program either when I know the only place it will get redistributed into the hands of those who have the lobbyist and money to make the payoffs. I know we need to set a minimum wages with regulations because when people operate businesses they sure are not operating the business because they are looking out for their fellow man. Greed takes hold and a business person normally looks at his bottom line. If a business can get away with paying a person 20 cents and hour many businesses would. It makes no difference that these shysters who are only in it for a buck will go broke in time. During the time we wait for them to go broke people suffer and another business will crop up to take the place of the failed business that is no better so that can also become a vicious circle.

    I'm sitting here in a small community that has very few jobs and no industries other than farming at the moment. One call center that may hire up to thirty people at a shot depending on the contracts they get. Thousands of people here have no place to work unless they drive 35 to 60 miles away. There are no processing facilities left here for the local farms to sell their goods. Those are 60 or more miles away. That means any goods that may be raised on the land here must be shipped by truck to even get to a rail station. We pay the same price as anyone in the city for gas or the food we buy at the markets but there are no jobs to sustain these local communities other than a few stores, local government or a few corporate farming companies, (even those have a host of illegal aliens working for them. American workers are not wanted or desired.) The best cottage industry around here is the Amish corner stands by the freeway. They sell re-packaged jelly (smuckers and other brands) and made in China but assembled by Amish baskets. I'm seriously considering a horse and buggy...Not sure I can handle wearing all that black in the summer here though.

    If anyone can come up with a plan to actually dismantle the wreckage and not give away the tax payers money to the corrupt would everyone be happy?
     

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