Corporations: the leftwing boogeyman

[rdean]

The 12 largest corporations in the US pay NOTHING in taxes and get billions in free money from the taxpayers.

The left doesn't hate corporations. We hate the way Republicans pander to corporations. That's entirely different.

Like one great Republican Senator said to the BP: "I want to apologize for expecting you to pay for the damage you caused and the lives you lost." Republicans made him "CHAIRMAN" of the Energy Committee. The middle class, including the Republican Middle Class, just visited a doctor with fingers the size of Italian sausage.

 

[Patrick2]

No, shareholders could NEVER be certain that something bad would be done, especially with ignorant juries giving titantic awards. They couldn't look over management's shoulder every second.

No, but they could, and should, be more careful about how they invest their money and the sorts of activities their investment funds.

If you own a company and you hire someone with the directive "do whatever it takes to turn a profit", and they commit heinous acts in pursuit of that goal, you can bet you'll be held accountable. Perhaps not to the same degree as the person you hire, but at the very least (depending on what they do) you've exhibited negligence and you're culpable for that in a court of law. It's the same if you have partners in your business - you share the responsibility for the actions of your company with the other owners. Why should it be any different for the owners of a corporation?

Nobody would buy stock, and corporations would disappear or move overseas, and take their jobs with them. The US is already driving businesses overseas with the anti-business attitude in this country - this would be the final straw.

It depends on how you went about it. I think sound companies with ethical track records would do fine.

Lawyers have, imo, done far more harm to our society. And if someone buys one share of stock, it sounds like under this plan as technically a part owner, he could be limitlessly sued. Then people would fear mutual funds too, because some of those own hundreds of different companies - who could possibly keep track? Sorry - I think you need to go back to the drawing board.

 

[dblack]

Corporations R Us. Small businesses incorporate in order to limit liability, deal with taxes and deal with a hundred often conflicting government regulations. Anybody can incorporate. Why do radical left wingers hate and fear corporations? Mostly they are ignorant lock-step-mind numbed robots who hate anyone or any thing that Soros and Huffing and Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi tells them to hate or they are dumbed down kids educated by radical lefties to hate everything connected to capitalism. Every pension system in the US is invested in corporate wealth. What is social security invested in?

I'm opposed to the current status quo of corporate law because I support the free market, because I support freedom. Corporations are a kind of 'privatized' socialism that allow investors to do the same thing that state socialism does. In either case, the mob combines forces to oppress the individual, shielded from accountability for their actions by 'democracy', in the case of socialism, and 'limited liability' in the case of corporate law.

 

[dblack]

The left doesn't hate corporations. We hate the way Republicans pander to corporations.

Well said.

But then, I can't help but ask, why don't you hate the way Democrats pander to corporations?

 

[dblack]

... if someone buys one share of stock, it sounds like under this plan as technically a part owner, he could be limitlessly sued.

Well, I can't claim to have a 'plan'. I'm just saying that we need to revisit the idea of limited liability. I think it's fundamentally unfair and needs to be reconsidered.

 

[whitehall]

The 12 largest corporations in the US pay NOTHING in taxes and get billions in free money from the taxpayers.

The left doesn't hate corporations. We hate the way Republicans pander to corporations. That's entirely different.

Like one great Republican Senator said to the BP: "I want to apologize for expecting you to pay for the damage you caused and the lives you lost." Republicans made him "CHAIRMAN" of the Energy Committee. The middle class, including the Republican Middle Class, just visited a doctor with fingers the size of Italian sausage.

There are a few political axioms you have to accept. The first one is that government does not generate income. It hires and fires and seems to create "jobs" but it's all a fake. The money the government uses is either printed or confiscated from the private sector. The second political axiom is that only the private sector AKA corporations can generate income and grow the economy. Middle class small business owners find themselves classed among the "rich" because dumb assed neo-socialists who couldn't get a real job have set a dollar limit on the American dream. You can't trust politicians to be smart or honest. The last time they had a post office they stole so many stamps that they went to jail and the post office closed. Barney Frank told us that Fannie Mae was doing well when it was on the verge of collapse.

 

[rdean]

The left doesn't hate corporations. We hate the way Republicans pander to corporations.

Well said.

But then, I can't help but ask, why don't you hate the way Democrats pander to corporations?

When you look at the US Chamber of Commerce, you should ask, "Why do they give more than 90% to Republicans?" If it were so even, why don't they give more than a "piddly amount" to Democrats.

Employees hold fundraisers, bundle their money and contribute it to Democratic candidates. But they list the source as the company they work at. This is why huge companies give to both candidates. The CEO and BOD to GOP, the employees to Democrats. I think it's great that employees give to their political candidates.

The problem is the Republicans, once again, lie by twisting the facts, insisting employees giving is no different than the company itself giving. Only it's very different.

Look at the make up of the two parties. One is 90% white made up of middle class to poor and their leaders are ultra rich.

Democrats are 65% white, but those whites include gays and scientists and atheists and college professors and teachers and rich and poor. The balance of the party is everyone else. They are a coalition party.

Nothing here is new. I've linked to everything here again and again.

 

[rdean]

The 12 largest corporations in the US pay NOTHING in taxes and get billions in free money from the taxpayers.

The left doesn't hate corporations. We hate the way Republicans pander to corporations. That's entirely different.

Like one great Republican Senator said to the BP: "I want to apologize for expecting you to pay for the damage you caused and the lives you lost." Republicans made him "CHAIRMAN" of the Energy Committee. The middle class, including the Republican Middle Class, just visited a doctor with fingers the size of Italian sausage.

There are a few political axioms you have to accept. The first one is that government does not generate income. It hires and fires and seems to create "jobs" but it's all a fake. The money the government uses is either printed or confiscated from the private sector. The second political axiom is that only the private sector AKA corporations can generate income and grow the economy. Middle class small business owners find themselves classed among the "rich" because dumb assed neo-socialists who couldn't get a real job have set a dollar limit on the American dream. You can't trust politicians to be smart or honest. The last time they had a post office they stole so many stamps that they went to jail and the post office closed. Barney Frank told us that Fannie Mae was doing well when it was on the verge of collapse.

Pure bullshit. The government is the source of all kinds of jobs and revenue. NASA has thousands of patents in everything from electronic technology to agriculture to medicine. Those patents are the bases for the US being the scientific and technological world wide leader. Many of those patents are sold to US companies or licensed. Some things a country has resources for, but companies on the own don't. It's why they partner with the government to develop innovation. But that's not going to last. Republicans won't let it. They are trying to "dumb down" the country. Look at you. Spouting the same ignorant crap. Typical Republican.

Then there is our failing infrastructure. Republicans won't let that be fixed. They say, "Once you build a bridge the job is over". Except that bridge connects communities which will bring economic opportunity.

I'm so tire of right wing ignorance. It certainly seems they don't know how anything works.

Just the naked ignorance on science, evolution especially, and climate change is mind blowing. Knowing the vast majority of right wingers believes "Noah's Ark" is a true historical event is just sickening. How can you expect anything that's serious to come from these people if they live in such a fantasy?

Another fantasy is the idea our government is some kind of evil cabal. It's made up of real Americans. It's not some foreign entity. Those people are voted into office. Our neighbors. And this idea about getting rid of the EPA and other regulatory bodies. I don't want MY kids to be the first to discover poisoned milk. Hopefully, it will be the kid of some Republican who wants to end government.

 

[dblack]

When you look at the US Chamber of Commerce, you should ask, "Why do they give more than 90% to Republicans?" If it were so even, why don't they give more than a "piddly amount" to Democrats.

Employees hold fundraisers, bundle their money and contribute it to Democratic candidates. But they list the source as the company they work at. This is why huge companies give to both candidates. The CEO and BOD to GOP, the employees to Democrats. I think it's great that employees give to their political candidates.

The problem is the Republicans, once again, lie by twisting the facts, insisting employees giving is no different than the company itself giving. Only it's very different.

Look at the make up of the two parties. One is 90% white made up of middle class to poor and their leaders are ultra rich.

Democrats are 65% white, but those whites include gays and scientists and atheists and college professors and teachers and rich and poor. The balance of the party is everyone else. They are a coalition party.

Nothing here is new. I've linked to everything here again and again.

Linked?? I'm not sure what that means, but your blind faith in Democrat mythology is sort of pathetic. You can't dance fast enough to hide the massive corporate bailouts that have happened under Obama's watch. When Obama took the reigns, and Democrats took Congress, the entire country hoped for real change. They hoped Obama would get us out of the Middle East, protect our rights against the onslaught of neocon demagoguery, repeal the Patriot Act, etc, etc, etc... NONE OF THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. Instead, we've seen Democratic corporatism as they bailout their cronies on Wall Street, sell us out to the health insurance industry, and push for ever greater, more centralized control over our lives.

 

[rdean]

When you look at the US Chamber of Commerce, you should ask, "Why do they give more than 90% to Republicans?" If it were so even, why don't they give more than a "piddly amount" to Democrats.

Employees hold fundraisers, bundle their money and contribute it to Democratic candidates. But they list the source as the company they work at. This is why huge companies give to both candidates. The CEO and BOD to GOP, the employees to Democrats. I think it's great that employees give to their political candidates.

The problem is the Republicans, once again, lie by twisting the facts, insisting employees giving is no different than the company itself giving. Only it's very different.

Look at the make up of the two parties. One is 90% white made up of middle class to poor and their leaders are ultra rich.

Democrats are 65% white, but those whites include gays and scientists and atheists and college professors and teachers and rich and poor. The balance of the party is everyone else. They are a coalition party.

Nothing here is new. I've linked to everything here again and again.

Linked?? I'm not sure what that means, but your blind faith in Democrat mythology is sort of pathetic. You can't dance fast enough to hide the massive corporate bailouts that have happened under Obama's watch. When Obama took the reigns, and Democrats took Congress, the entire country hoped for real change. They hoped Obama would get us out of the Middle East, protect our rights against the onslaught of neocon demagoguery, repeal the Patriot Act, etc, etc, etc... NONE OF THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. Instead, we've seen Democratic corporatism as they bailout their cronies on Wall Street, sell us out to the health insurance industry, and push for ever greater, more centralized control over our lives.

Centralized control over our lives? You mean like the more than 80 abortion bills Republicans are trying to force on the American people nationwide? Like that?

Obama used more drones in Afghanistan in his first year than Bush did during his entire time in office. The result? The al Qaeda leadership has been pretty much obliterated. What I don't understand is how Republicans think you can just "change your mind" and walk away. Obama must love Iraq and Afghanistan because we are still there. The truth is, Republicans made such an enormous mess that we are pretty much stuck. The good thing is that Obama is approaching the wars the way Bush should have. Bush and the Republicans saw this as a "traditional" war, like fighting the Germans or the Italians. Obama understands our enemies melt into the civilian population and this is why intelligence is so important. Look who he just put in charge of the CIA. Why do you think that is?

TARP came from Bush.

The auto companies have nearly paid back what they were lent.

Could you imagine where this country would be at if all the auto industry was allowed to die? That was the Republican plan. How have their plans worked out in the last 10 years. Name a single success. Just one thing positive.

I'm just amazed he's done the job he has with "filibuster" party doing everything they can to block anything he does.

What the heck has Obama done so far?

 

[dblack]

Centralized control over our lives? You mean like the more than 80 abortion bills Republicans are trying to force on the American people nationwide? Like that?

Yep. Pretty much like that. Glad you recognize the equivalence. That's progress!

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, but they could, and should, be more careful about how they invest their money and the sorts of activities their investment funds.

Dude, North Korea is there for you. Your paradise awaits - don't hesitate!

If you own a company and you hire someone with the directive "do whatever it takes to turn a profit",

Leftism is a manifestation of ignorance. Misconception and faulty logic are the foundational attributes of the left.

Corporations are owned by the shareholders. Yes, I realize that HuffingPo and KOS tell you that there is a "Scrooge McDuck" type character who bathes in gold coins - but that isn't reality - it's a fantasy created to manipulate the stupid.

The "owner" of public corporations are the stock holders, usually thousands of people who have invested in the company. You think it's okay to steal, because you're only stealing from "Scrooge McDuck" who has too much anyway. But who you're really stealing from is hard working people who put a little money in a 401K with the hopes that someday they might be able to retire. Sometimes, even the people YOU care about, the public employee unions, invest in stocks. That's the money you want to steal.

 

[Moonglow]

The right tries to vilify the leftist because somehow we hate the entities, but as of yet they have yet to take notice that not all rich people are right wingers, that not all corporations lean left or just right, their vetted interest is to make laws with which they may profit from, want mind control of the consumers of the world and a tax free existence.

 

[dblack]

No, but they could, and should, be more careful about how they invest their money and the sorts of activities their investment funds.

Dude, North Korea is there for you. Your paradise awaits - don't hesitate!

??? What does this even mean?

Leftism is a manifestation of ignorance. Misconception and faulty logic are the foundational attributes of the left.....

Oh, I see. You've now abandoned rational discussion to indulge in the usual left/ right snipe-fest. Have fun with that.

 

[Care4all]

What is it about lefties and corporations?

Corporations are merely the means of bringing the factors of production - capital, labor, management, raw materials if it's manufacturing, plant and equipment together to produce goods and services.

I'm guessing it's because it's one of the higher expressions of capitalism.

Corporations provide products for people. They provide jobs for people who not in a million years otherwise could provide their own livelihood. They provide investments for people's 401Ks.

Not only that, they've become the lap kitties of the left, adopting most of the leftwing agenda:

- pervasive anti-white male discrimination

- contributions to leftwing foundations and candidates

- "partner" benefits to shacked up homosexuals

- the "cleansing" of religious aspects from the workplace

- all kinds of butt-kissing for minority events like black history week

- PR efforts and contributions for Pee See diseases like AIDS and breast cancer

I would also remind the tax-loving left-wingers (who hate corporations so much) that every dime of taxes paid by the employees of a corporation actually come from the corporation to begin with. And that is quite a chunk of this country’s revenue.

simply NOT TRUE....I have earned my income/compensation for the work i do for them, and for the money i made them....

MY INCOME TAXES PAID, IS MY INCOME....not in any way, the corporation's....that's just really really messed up for you to even THINK that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please reconsider!!! Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say?

75% of Americans are employed by small businesses, NOT by corporations?

 

[Uncensored2008]

simply NOT TRUE....I have earned my income/compensation for the work i do for them, and for the money i made them....

MY INCOME TAXES PAID, IS MY INCOME....not in any way, the corporation's....that's just really really messed up for you to even THINK that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please reconsider!!! Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say?

75% of Americans are employed by small businesses, NOT by corporations?

I agree with your basic premise. Corporations don't pay taxes, customers, share holders and employees pay 100% of corporate taxes. So when Obama or other leftists claim that they will "punish" corporations with punitive taxes, they really are saying that they will punish the employees who EARNED their income and the customers.

About your stat, most small businesses are incorporated. They may not be publicly traded, but they generally are incorporated as an LLC or closely held.

 

[Uncensored2008]

??? What does this even mean?

It means that you have no real reason to try and change the USA to fit your vision - a nation matching what you seek is already there - North Korea.

Oh, I see. You've now abandoned rational discussion to indulge in the usual left/ right snipe-fest. Have fun with that.

There is nothing "rational" about destroying the foundation of commerce in the USA. The limitation of liability is what provides a basis of capital for new ventures to form. In economics, one of the immutable laws is that investors require returns commensurate with the risk they incur. What you have demanded is that investors risk not only the capital of the investment, but their homes and future earnings. Since there is not a potential for return that warrants such a risk, your proposal would utterly destroy the US Economy. There is certainly nothing even approaching "rational" in your proposal.

 

[Patrick2]

Not sure people grasp this - unlike in other countries, US corporate taxes are >>DOUBLY<< taxed, once as corporate profits, and then again as income to shareholders (as capital gains when the share is sold).

 

[rdean]

Centralized control over our lives? You mean like the more than 80 abortion bills Republicans are trying to force on the American people nationwide? Like that?

Yep. Pretty much like that. Glad you recognize the equivalence. That's progress!

Equivalent to what?

 

[dblack]

Centralized control over our lives? You mean like the more than 80 abortion bills Republicans are trying to force on the American people nationwide? Like that?

Yep. Pretty much like that. Glad you recognize the equivalence. That's progress!

Equivalent to what?

I was pointing that, instead of 'hope and change', Obama and the Democratic congress merely served up their own batch of authoritarian ambitions and you replied with "like the more than 80 abortion bills Republicans are trying to force on the American people nationwide? Like that?" - and I'm saying yeah, like that. I'd hoped that your comment indicated you could see the similarities between the Democrats telling us how we have to pay for our health care and the Republican telling us how to manage our pregnancies. Perhaps my congratulations was premature.