Corporate welfare in action ....

Discussion in 'Politics' started by dblack, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Oh good night....

    Oh no! I accepted an offer of buy one get one free for a Big Mac at McDonalds! THEY ARE DICTATING MY ENTIRE LIFE!
    .....
    :disbelief:
     
  2. danielpalos
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    danielpalos Gold Member

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    An alleged work ethic from the Age of Iron, only being required of the poor, not the rich.
     
  3. dblack
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    dblack Gold Member

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    You're missing the key point here. We're talking about taxes - not voluntary transactions. That's why it's hard to accept the characterization of these deals as "offers".

    If a mobster is running a protection racket and "offers" to let you skip your payment if you do a little job for him, would you consider that coercion? Because that's what tax incentives are doing. They're coercing behavior. They're using the power of taxation as an all-purpose tool to manipulate society.
     
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  4. Brain357
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    Brain357 Gold Member

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    That's gonna go right to your hips.

    So you think government dictating to business makes for strong companies? Politicians can't run the country, why do you want them in business?
     
  5. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    The term has been used.... That isn't a definition... that is a one person saying "everything I determine to be corporate welfare, is".

    A tax break is not corporate welfare. Because the money being taken in taxes, is not yours to begin with. Letting people keep their own money, that they rightfully earned, is not welfare.

    If that is corporate welfare, then by that logic, every single person in the entire country is a welfare recipient.

    Did you take a tax dedication last year? Yes you did. So if you, and absolutely everyone in the country is on welfare, then you have no right to complain, or grounds to whine about corporations getting welfare.

    First live without welfare yourself, then you can complain about others.
     
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  6. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Ok, that's good. I like that. If taxation is a mafia tool of coercion, then let's end the income tax and property tax.

    Problem solved on all sides.

    Again, I don't see this as a manipulation on society. Due tell, how has "society" been manipulated because one single company decided to move to Ohio over Florida?

    How has my life changed either way? If you are claiming that society as a whole, has been changed because of one company getting a tax abatement.... then I need some evidence proving that.

    I need to know how one company saving some tax money on property, has magically changed my life, or affected me in any way at all.

    And you can't say that my taxes have to go up, to off set the loss of tax revenue, because they are paying zero tax now. And when they do come, they will be paying taxes. Not the full amount, but millions more than zero they are paying now.

    So give me your explanation.
     
  7. Papageorgio
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    Papageorgio The Ultimate Winner

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    That is a good definition of what is corporate welfare and what is it corporate welfare.
     
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  8. dblack
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    dblack Gold Member

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    That's a worthy goal. Taxation is a crude and coercive means of financing government. I think we can do better. But it will take time to get there. Until then, we can at least put strict limits on government's ability to abuse the taxation power that we've granted it.

    It's true that manipulating one single company manipulates only a small part of society. And if we were discussing one case in isolation, and if we ignored all the other ways tax incentives are used to manipulate society, you might be able to convince me to dismiss my concerns. But, in point of fact, many business decisions are being manipulated in this way - it's becoming a standard practice of cities and states fixated on economic growth. And government routinely uses tax incentives to manipulate individual behavior as well. So, "move along, nothing to see here" just doesn't cut it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  9. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Again, prove it. Make the case. You can say something is so, until the end of time. But until you can actually back that claim with real empirical evidence, it remains hearsay.

    Can you at least provide me one single example? Just one? An example where government is directly affecting my life, through the use of a tax abatement?

    Again, government grants and subsidies I'm already against, and I oppose them in every single form.

    But we're talking about a tax abatement. Can you provide an example where my life is different than it would be, if there had been no tax abatement?
     
  10. dblack
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    dblack Gold Member

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    I, and others, have done that repeatedly in this thread, and you just ostrich up. I don't know what else to tell you. If you want to deny it, you will.
    Why are you against grants and subsidies? Can you provide an example where my life is different than it would be, if there had been no grants or subsidies?

    I don't know anything about your life. Plenty of other people have been impacted by these policies though. This was all detailed in the articles linked in the thread. Clearly, you either haven't read, or don't believe the facts they describe. If that's your position - that it's all just "fake news" - then there really isn't much point in trying to persuade you of anything.
     
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