Cops Confiscate Lakewood Lady’s Arsenal; Motive Pending

[geauxtohell]

This (police report to search) corroborates what I have been saying:

GunRightsMedia - View Single Post - Francesca Rice case in Ohio

If this is true:

Narrative: would like us to check to see if francesca rice in apt #709
is there. female is entered missing involuntary out of the
va hospital and they have a signed certificate from a
doctor stating she is a danger to herself or others and can
be taken back to the va hospital against her will due to
her mental and emotional status.

She was involuntarily committed to a psych ward and went AWOL which would cause concern for her safety and the safety of others. If Ohio has a clause that allows confiscation of illegal firearms in this matter, it sort of stacks up.

The caveat is that this might not be true, both in the fact that it's open source and also in police reports aren't known to be 100% accurate.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

This (police report to search) corroborates what I have been saying:

GunRightsMedia - View Single Post - Francesca Rice case in Ohio

If this is true:

Narrative: would like us to check to see if francesca rice in apt #709
is there. female is entered missing involuntary out of the
va hospital and they have a signed certificate from a
doctor stating she is a danger to herself or others and can
be taken back to the va hospital against her will due to
her mental and emotional status.

She was involuntarily committed to a psych ward and went AWOL which would cause concern for her safety and the safety of others. If Ohio has a clause that allows confiscation of illegal firearms in this matter, it sort of stacks up.

The caveat is that this might not be true, both in the fact that it's open source and also in police reports aren't known to be 100% accurate.

Who is
Carl N. Brown
Senior Member



Join Date: 05-10-05
Location: Kingsport Tennessee
Posts: 4,026
Who also gave no supportiong link

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

According to the court order cited in post 20, the police concede that the firearms were not prohibited by any law, but that they would not return the firearms except per a court order. The police are covering themselves in the event the plaintiff harms herself or others once the firearms are returned.

This is clearly a 4th Amendment search and seizure issue, as the firearms were taken when the plaintiff was not home and the police entered her apartment without a warrant.

 

[geauxtohell]

This (police report to search) corroborates what I have been saying:

GunRightsMedia - View Single Post - Francesca Rice case in Ohio

If this is true:

Narrative: would like us to check to see if francesca rice in apt #709
is there. female is entered missing involuntary out of the
va hospital and they have a signed certificate from a
doctor stating she is a danger to herself or others and can
be taken back to the va hospital against her will due to
her mental and emotional status.

She was involuntarily committed to a psych ward and went AWOL which would cause concern for her safety and the safety of others. If Ohio has a clause that allows confiscation of illegal firearms in this matter, it sort of stacks up.

The caveat is that this might not be true, both in the fact that it's open source and also in police reports aren't known to be 100% accurate.

Who is
Carl N. Brown
Senior Member



Join Date: 05-10-05
Location: Kingsport Tennessee
Posts: 4,026
Who also gave no supportiong link

I have no idea. I don't post there. I just used Google. He probably pulled it from the Police's own website:
City of Lakewood, Ohio: Police Call Logs

That can't be verified as they only go back as far as December 2010 as of right now.

Either way, the blotter is a matter of public record. I am sure if you are really interested, you can dig up your info.

Either way, assuming this is true, and Rice eloped from an inpatient psych unit. The story becomes a little more reasonable. It would also make sense as to why she was able to get her guns back after she was cleared by VA Psych.

That's the best I can do. If you want to do you own research, then by all means.

 

[geauxtohell]

According to the court order cited in post 20, the police concede that the firearms were not prohibited by any law, but that they would not return the firearms except per a court order. The police are covering themselves in the event the plaintiff harms herself or others once the firearms are returned.

This is clearly a 4th Amendment search and seizure issue, as the firearms were taken when the plaintiff was not home and the police entered her apartment without a warrant.

She rented and they gained access from the landlord who unlocked the door.

I don't know if that changes the parameters of search and seizure or not. Just to add to the fact pattern.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

She rented and they gained access from the landlord who unlocked the door.

I don't know if that changes the parameters of search and seizure or not. Just to add to the fact pattern.

It doesn’t – whether one rents or owns is irrelevant; that the landlord owns the apartment or complex is also irrelevant and does not authorize them to grant access to the police to your home in violation of the 4th Amendment. This would also pertain to a hotel room where you were staying overnight.

"Search and Seizure" and the Fourth Amendment - FindLaw

 

[bigrebnc1775]

this (police report to search) corroborates what i have been saying:

gunrightsmedia - view single post - francesca rice case in ohio

if this is true:



She was involuntarily committed to a psych ward and went awol which would cause concern for her safety and the safety of others. If ohio has a clause that allows confiscation of illegal firearms in this matter, it sort of stacks up.

The caveat is that this might not be true, both in the fact that it's open source and also in police reports aren't known to be 100% accurate.

who is
carl n. Brown
senior member



join date: 05-10-05
location: Kingsport tennessee
posts: 4,026
who also gave no supportiong link

i have no idea. I don't post there. I just used google. He probably pulled it from the police's own website:
city of lakewood, ohio: Police call logs

that can't be verified as they only go back as far as december 2010 as of right now.

Either way, the blotter is a matter of public record. I am sure if you are really interested, you can dig up your info.

Either way, assuming this is true, and rice eloped from an inpatient psych unit. The story becomes a little more reasonable. It would also make sense as to why she was able to get her guns back after she was cleared by va psych.

That's the best i can do. If you want to do you own research, then by all means.

again either or whats the point is that the cops came and took her guns on the word of the va

 

[whitehall]

As much as I support the 2nd Amendment the devil is in the details. What kind of disability did Ms. Rice incur? If Ms Rice was being treated for PTSS and/or a psychological disorder I'd say the Police have reasonable cause to sieze a machine gun in her posession. If she had a physical impairment and even an amputation I'd she she was a victim of the system. Which is it?

 

[geauxtohell]

As much as I support the 2nd Amendment the devil is in the details. What kind of disability did Ms. Rice incur? If Ms Rice was being treated for PTSS and/or a psychological disorder I'd say the Police have reasonable cause to sieze a machine gun in her posession. If she had a physical impairment and even an amputation I'd she she was a victim of the system. Which is it?

There is nothing inherent to PTSD that should prevent someone from having a weapon. In fact, there is nothing inherent to most psych disorders that should prevent someone from having a weapon (legally - now whether it's a "good idea" is debatable). The legal sticking point is "danger to themselves or others" and that is not a permanent state.

 

[editec]

Thirteen weapons — including a machine gun and sniper rifle — were taken when cops suspected Rice’s disability prevented her from owning them under Ohio law. \

Say WHAT?!

Now there's a law, that, assuming it is real, is about to be overturned.

AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT OF 1990, AS AMENDED

 

[Douger]

Remember meatheads. It's official. YOU are the terrorists.
Thanx for you're service.

 

[geauxtohell]

Thirteen weapons — including a machine gun and sniper rifle — were taken when cops suspected Rice’s disability prevented her from owning them under Ohio law. \

Say WHAT?!

Now there's a law, that, assuming it is real, is about to be overturned.

AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT OF 1990, AS AMENDED

I think there are provisions for psych patient's who are believed to be a threat to themselves or others.

I mean, the "96 hour hold" isn't legal for any regular citizen, but it is for psyh patients.

This assumes this woman was a psych patient, which the police blotter suggests.

VA Patient + Disability doesn't always equate to physical ailment.

 

[geauxtohell]

Remember meatheads. It's official. YOU are the terrorists.
Thanx for you're service.

Hey Douger, I heard a dirty rumor about you. I heard that your profile pic was your girlfriend.

I didn't want to believe it, because I didn't think a classy guy like you would stoop to something so tacky.

 

[whitehall]

As much as I support the 2nd Amendment the devil is in the details. What kind of disability did Ms. Rice incur? If Ms Rice was being treated for PTSS and/or a psychological disorder I'd say the Police have reasonable cause to sieze a machine gun in her posession. If she had a physical impairment and even an amputation I'd she she was a victim of the system. Which is it?

There is nothing inherent to PTSD that should prevent someone from having a weapon. In fact, there is nothing inherent to most psych disorders that should prevent someone from having a weapon (legally - now whether it's a "good idea" is debatable). The legal sticking point is "danger to themselves or others" and that is not a permanent state.

Are you kidding hellboy? Every symptom of PTSD prevents someone from owning a weapon. The mandatory ATF paperwork flags someone if they were under psychiatric care. You can't purchase any weapon if you were under psychiatric care. I'm sorry brother Veterans but if you want to go PTSD for a cheap V.A. bennie you have to take the good with the bad. No way should a Veteran who accepts a psychiatric disability be able to posess anything more potent than a pea shooter.

 

[Zona]

My question is, what flagged the VA to send the cops to her house? We dont know what the hell was going on in her mind. If she is mental case now, then isn't it the VA's responsibility to do exactly what they did?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

My question is, what flagged the VA to send the cops to her house? We dont know what the hell was going on in her mind. If she is mental case now, then isn't it the VA's responsibility to do exactly what they did?

The VA might notify the proper authorities as to a patient being a danger to herself or others, but once the police learned the plaintiff wasn’t home they had no right to enter her apartment without a warrant as there were no exigent circumstances.

 

[whitehall]

My question is, what flagged the VA to send the cops to her house? We dont know what the hell was going on in her mind. If she is mental case now, then isn't it the VA's responsibility to do exactly what they did?

A psychiatric patient cannot purchase a firearm according to federal law. The fact that the patient already posessed firearms is a legitimate concern for local police. The V.A. made the right call.

 

[geauxtohell]

My question is, what flagged the VA to send the cops to her house? We dont know what the hell was going on in her mind. If she is mental case now, then isn't it the VA's responsibility to do exactly what they did?

The VA might notify the proper authorities as to a patient being a danger to herself or others, but once the police learned the plaintiff wasn’t home they had no right to enter her apartment without a warrant as there were no exigent circumstances.

According to police records, she eloped from inpatient psych care.

"Eloped" is the fancy medical way of saying, "escaped".

 

[geauxtohell]

My question is, what flagged the VA to send the cops to her house? We dont know what the hell was going on in her mind. If she is mental case now, then isn't it the VA's responsibility to do exactly what they did?

A psychiatric patient cannot purchase a firearm according to federal law. The fact that the patient already posessed firearms is a legitimate concern for local police. The V.A. made the right call.

Define "psychiatric patient" and please cite the law.

Are you telling me every single person on anti-depressants (SSRIs) is dq'ed from ever owning a gun?

I don't think so. You are elevating psychiatric conditions to the "felony status".

Note, I don't own a gun and have no interest in owning a gun, so I am not one of those people that is wazoo on the second amendment. I just suspect you are wrong.

 

[whitehall]

The worst case of mass murder on a campus in US history was down played by the media, possibly because the school (Va. Tech Blacksburg) and the local police were so negligent. The shooter had been undergoing psychiatric care but a glitch in Va. law prevented the name check to reveal a medical condition because of privacy concerns even when the shooter was buying a gun. (I believe the glitch has been corrected). The local police had reasonable cause to arrest the shooter well before the tragedy but they let him go even though there were complaints by woman that they were being stalked. The school never went into lockdown even when the first body was discovered and the police were interviewing witnesses while the gumnman was killing people on the other side of campus. The point is that anyone suffering from a psychiatric disorder including Veterans who claim PTSS should automatically have their firearms confiscated until a hearing certifies that they are not a danger to society.