Copout: Parents brought children to America; no fault of their own

[JakeStarkey]

We Republicans of the mainstream don't want libertarians telling us how to run the party or America, period. You can't get 3% in your party, why should we worry about you in oour GOP.

TGG, you and your ilk here are not mainstream. You are in the minority even in the GOP, and growing smaller in numbers daily. So, yup, I will keep fighting you like I did for Romney and will continue to fight for Romney. Don't want no stinkin' Santorums or Bachmanns. No way, no how. Watch the lack of influence these losers now have.

Is that why you're always fighting with the majority of Republicans/conservatives on this board and I'm not?

<Waiting for the light to click>

LOL. I wasn't for Santorum or Bachman. In fact I was very against them and Romney was my second choice so he was high on my list. I wanted Paul and it wasn't close. If you want government to stop thinking they have a right to fuck with systems and people's lives then you have to revolutionize it and Paul was the only one with that vision. So yes I'll admit that the Republican party is still very statist and in that respect I may not be in the mainstream.

But when it comes to being against abortion or against big government or being against gay marriage or lowering taxes and cutting spending, you want to pretend that those aren't hardcore Republican positions. They are and if you have a problem with that then you should just admit that you are a Democrat that doesn't want to cut military spending. That's what you are. But you don't have faith in the rest of the Democrats to do that, so you stay Republican and you try to pretend that our values don't stack up. It's pathetic dude. You're the one out of step.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Just because a child is brought here by a parent has he/she lost his citizenship in his native country? No. He/she can exist there.

It's a copout to say oh we're hurting these children who were brought here through no fault of their own. That's b.s. families are responsible for their fates. And to reward those families while other families are legally waiting is irresponsible.

Frankly, it's obvious that Obama created this bleeding heart narrative on the heels of an election b/c who wants to be a hard ass and say fair is fair?

Sorry dude, but the standard is you're a citizen of your native country and you have to legally apply for citizenship. Just b/c your mommy or daddy broke the law doesn't give you any special rights that others do not have.

The only thing that is obvious is your ignorance of the law and Constitution.

It has been a long-standing principle of Anglo-American jurisprudence that a child may not be subject to punitive measures as a consequence of a parent’s misdeeds. This fundamental principle has been time and again reaffirmed by the Supreme Court. See: Weber v. Aetna Casualty & Surety Co. (1972), Plyler v. Doe (1982).

Consequently the Administration’s use of prosecutorial discretion in this matter is perfectly valid both with regard to established and accepted procedure and Constitutional case law.

Your opposition to the policy is clearly partisan, if a republican administration were to enact the same policy you’d fully support it.

 

[Unkotare]

Mainstream, mainstream, definately, definately mainstream, definately mainstream. Uh-oh! Time for Wapner!

 

[Unkotare]

It has been a long-standing principle of Anglo-American jurisprudence that a child may not be subject to punitive measures as a consequence of a parent’s misdeeds.

How long standing is the principle of rewarding a child for a parent's misdeeds?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Okay; so we as conservatives agree that it's a copout. But why the disconnect with Republican lawmakers? You guys notice that none of the Republicans are rebuking the Dems with this message?

Why? Because wealthy businessmen like the cheap labor. That, and if they actually did something about it, they wouldn't have a wedge issue to trot out like clockwork every 4 years. If republicans don't want illegals here they should just stop hiring them.

Are you telling us that there are no Democrats do not own or run businesses?

 

[gallantwarrior]

It must be so simple to formulate an opinion without a sense of compassion. By the time a kid has graduated from school or served a couple of tours we have invested a fair amount in these people, some republicans would like to make sure that investment is a total loss for everyone involved.

For those who have served in the military and been honorably discharged, I would consider some leniency. For those who have done nothing more significant than attended public school, on the taxpayer dime, they have certainly already gleaned enough benefit and are most welcome to take that back to improve their own country.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Unkotare is melting again: not in the mainstream, the Executive Order ending the deportation nonsense, and the focus now on a sensible, workable immigration reform package.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Just because a child is brought here by a parent has he/she lost his citizenship in his native country? No. He/she can exist there.

It's a copout to say oh we're hurting these children who were brought here through no fault of their own. That's b.s. families are responsible for their fates. And to reward those families while other families are legally waiting is irresponsible.

Frankly, it's obvious that Obama created this bleeding heart narrative on the heels of an election b/c who wants to be a hard ass and say fair is fair?

Sorry dude, but the standard is you're a citizen of your native country and you have to legally apply for citizenship. Just b/c your mommy or daddy broke the law doesn't give you any special rights that others do not have.

If a set of parents (American's) had, lets say robbed a bank and got away with it and brought a house with that money and 5 years down the road the police catch up with the parents, should the kids get to keep the house? Or should the government take it back? No, they should not get to keep it, they would be rewarding the family of those breaking the law.

I totally get that these kids are in limbo, but they should go through the proper channels to become citizens just like the kids above would need to make their own money when able to buy a home. Sound mean or just fair to those waiting in line?

And they were put there by their own parents.
But, somehow, it's someone else's fault.

Now that is typically liberal. No one is ever at fault for their own predicament. Those they deem so are ever the victims, as politically expedient.

 

[Unkotare]

Definately, definately mainstream...yeah...mainstream. Definately, definately mainstream...Uh-oh! Time for Wapner!

 

[gallantwarrior]

Just because a child is brought here by a parent has he/she lost his citizenship in his native country? No. He/she can exist there.

It's a copout to say oh we're hurting these children who were brought here through no fault of their own. That's b.s. families are responsible for their fates. And to reward those families while other families are legally waiting is irresponsible.

Frankly, it's obvious that Obama created this bleeding heart narrative on the heels of an election b/c who wants to be a hard ass and say fair is fair?

Sorry dude, but the standard is you're a citizen of your native country and you have to legally apply for citizenship. Just b/c your mommy or daddy broke the law doesn't give you any special rights that others do not have.

kids aren't responsible for the sins of their parents.

Do you think your children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc, should pay for poor government policies?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Just because a child is brought here by a parent has he/she lost his citizenship in his native country? No. He/she can exist there.

It's a copout to say oh we're hurting these children who were brought here through no fault of their own. That's b.s. families are responsible for their fates. And to reward those families while other families are legally waiting is irresponsible.

Frankly, it's obvious that Obama created this bleeding heart narrative on the heels of an election b/c who wants to be a hard ass and say fair is fair?

Sorry dude, but the standard is you're a citizen of your native country and you have to legally apply for citizenship. Just b/c your mommy or daddy broke the law doesn't give you any special rights that others do not have.

So are we being told all Illegal immigrants here that are under 30 were all brought here Against their will by their Parents? That is BS, the Vast Majority came here after Reaching adulthood. Many on Student Visa's they have now Over Stayed.

What exactly earns them a spot at the front of a long line?

30 is a bit old, isn't it. But hell, they have to be 18 to vote for (illegally) obama this time around.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I actually have a good friend and Co worker who is a Legal Resident Alien. He has been trying to become a Citizen for about 6 Years now. Came here from Nigeria. He is 33 Years old. How is he any less Deserving than a 30 Year old Illegal Immigrant from Where ever?

I mean, Don't get me wrong I am for giving these people a path to Citizenship, I just think this is a really fucked up, and frankly Unconstitutional Way to go about it.

Same here. I work with many who are either legal aliens or have earned their citizenship. They are Korean, Chinese, and many other Asians. No Mexicans, though. Seems to me that so many of these exceptions are targeted at Mexicans who appear to assume some special status. Illegal is illegal. Go home and go through proper application channels, like many, many before you.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay; so we as conservatives agree that it's a copout. But why the disconnect with Republican lawmakers? You guys notice that none of the Republicans are rebuking the Dems with this message?

Exactly.

Because they know the tidal gravity.

These kids will INEVITABLY become citizens. It's just going to happen.

So will a lot of the 11 million who are illegally here and came here as adults.

They don't want to dig themselves into a deeper hole with these folks to get a few more bubba redneck votes. (Like they were ever going to go the Democrats.)

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

There is no other crime for which the children of criminals get to keep the proceeds of parental criminal activity.

There aren't being allowed to keep proceeds from any criminal activity you ignorant moron. Why is everyone who hates Mexicans so fucking stupid?

Only citizenship is held to a worthless standard. Not even worth as much as a bicycle.

THEY AREN'T BEING GIVEN CITIZENSHIP YOU IMBECILE. Its a good thing for you that you were born a citizen and that English is your native language, otherwise, you'd NEVER been able to pass the citizenship exam.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The premise of this remark seems to be that returning someone to his or her native country is a type of punishment.

That's not the premise.

There's nothing wrong with living in Mexico, or Peru, or China.

China? We don't return children to China, moron. In fact we openly allow the Chinese to come to our country to give birth, just so their children can have the option of living in the U.S. at citizens one day. I guess if the Mexicans want legal entry into the U.S. - they need to get in line - IN CHINA.

To the extent that the "children" have become acculturated to American society, what a great opportunity, to go back to their native country, and learn a new culture.

Why don't you lead the way and go check it out for them, get back to us? it'd be a wonderful opportunity for you

Presumably

Oh, right, let's base national policy on "presumably" - that's the right wing lunatic way.

 

[Unkotare]

Why is everyone who hates Mexicans so fucking stupid?

Who has said they hate Mexicans?

 

[Unkotare]

otherwise, you'd NEVER been able to pass the citizenship exam.

What makes you say that?

 

[Raiderdisliker]

The premise of this remark seems to be that returning someone to his or her native country is a type of punishment.

That's not the premise.

There's nothing wrong with living in Mexico, or Peru, or China.

China? We don't return children to China, moron. In fact we openly allow the Chinese to come to our country to give birth, just so their children can have the option of living in the U.S. at citizens one day. I guess if the Mexicans want legal entry into the U.S. - they need to get in line - IN CHINA.

To the extent that the "children" have become acculturated to American society, what a great opportunity, to go back to their native country, and learn a new culture.

Why don't you lead the way and go check it out for them, get back to us? it'd be a wonderful opportunity for you

Presumably

Oh, right, let's base national policy on "presumably" - that's the right wing lunatic way.

I am not going to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Note the liberal use of ad hominem argumentation -- nothing to rebut the point, so attack the speaker. Thank you, I was born in the United States, to United States citizens, and I have no desire to explore other cultures.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The extremists of both sides use ad hom, Raiderdislliker, so get over youself, son.

One, the children don't benefit from what the parents did. The children, if they meet the requirements, will benefit from acting positively.

The GOP as a whole will not follow the far right on this, because it will lead to electoral disaster in the future as the children become adults and citizens, and vote against those who tried to deprive them from staying at home.

 

[syrenn]

The extremists of both sides use ad hom, Raiderdislliker, so get over youself, son.

One, the children don't benefit from what the parents did. The children, if they meet the requirements, will benefit from acting positively.

The GOP as a whole will not follow the far right on this, because it will lead to electoral disaster in the future as the children become adults and citizens, and vote against those who tried to deprive them from staying at home.

And that is why obama is pandering to the dream act now.....HE wants the votes and needs them now.