Conversing with a Bush Hater

[Avatar4321]

Despite some of Bush's failings as a conservative, he is STILL far and away better than anyone the Democrats have had to offer since LBJ.

I think you give LBJ too much credit.

 

[Hobbit]

Better at what?

Anything that doesn't involve driving this country into the ground and selling us out to the U.N.

 

[Max Power]

Anything that doesn't involve driving this country into the ground and selling us out to the U.N.

Our borders are wide open, government spending is higher than it ever was before... you DON'T think this is driving the country into the ground?

 

[Hobbit]

Our borders are wide open, government spending is higher than it ever was before... you DON'T think this is driving the country into the ground?

The borders are no more open than they were under Clinton, and government spending has not passed Clinton's peak, who cut the deficit by dismantling our military, which was f-ing stupid, and don't even get me started on Carter.

 

[Max Power]

The borders are no more open than they were under Clinton, and government spending has not passed Clinton's peak, who cut the deficit by dismantling our military, which was f-ing stupid, and don't even get me started on Carter.

You are right about Clinton on the borders.

But the rest of your post is laughably incorrect.
Government spending hasn't passed Clinton's peak?
http://www.cato.org/research/fiscal_policy/bush/fig4.html
Hahaha.
Just look at that graph. He BLEW past Clinton's peak. Increased it by, what, 30%? And that's just his first term. His second term isn't very pretty either, if you consider that recent transportation bill and Katrina.

Okay, Clinton cut the deficit by dismanting our military. That's true, but it actually began in 1991, under president George Bush.

Where do you get your information? Seriously... there is NO comparison of Bush to any other president in terms of spending. He puts them ALL to shame.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0510-26.pdf
Bush is the #1 biggest spending president of ALL time.

 

[Hobbit]

You are right about Clinton on the borders.

But the rest of your post is laughably incorrect.
Government spending hasn't passed Clinton's peak?
http://www.cato.org/research/fiscal_policy/bush/fig4.html
Hahaha.
Just look at that graph. He BLEW past Clinton's peak. Increased it by, what, 30%? And that's just his first term. His second term isn't very pretty either, if you consider that recent transportation bill and Katrina.

Okay, Clinton cut the deficit by dismanting our military. That's true, but it actually began in 1991, under president George Bush.

Where do you get your information? Seriously... there is NO comparison of Bush to any other president in terms of spending. He puts them ALL to shame.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0510-26.pdf
Bush is the #1 biggest spending president of ALL time.

Ok, maybe I was thinking about the national debt.

Still, Bush has only passed everybody if you ignore INFLATION. Think about inflation and look at the incredible cost of WWII and The New Deal. It'll blow you away.

You also have to think about circumstances. Liberals have all their pet programs that they just WON'T let die, while at the same time, Bush had to lower taxes to stimulate the economy, fight a war, and recover from 2 major disasters. Oddly enough to anyone who doesn't know crap about economics, lowering taxes actually increased tax revenue.

I keep hearing people gripe about Bush's spending record, but every time somebody tries to trim the fat, the very same people scream at the top of their lungs because they don't want THAT fat cut.

 

[Max Power]

Ok, maybe I was thinking about the national debt.

The national debt is higher than it's ever been. In real terms. Adjusted for inflation. And as a percentage of GDP.

Still, Bush has only passed everybody if you ignore INFLATION. Think about inflation and look at the incredible cost of WWII and The New Deal. It'll blow you away.

I'm not ignoring inflation. Look at that graph... it's all adjusted for 2000 dollars.
Adjusted for inflation, Bush is worse than Clinton, Carter, Reagan, LBJ... I could go on...

You also have to think about circumstances. Liberals have all their pet programs that they just WON'T let die,

I love this argument.
Republicans control both houses of congress and the white house... so who are all these "liberals" that have a majority in both houses of congress and the white house's approval? Unless you're willing to admit that BOTH the Republicans in congress AND George Bush are liberals...

while at the same time, Bush had to lower taxes to stimulate the economy, fight a war, and recover from 2 major disasters.

Well, he didn't HAVE to fight a war (Actually 2 wars), but that's a whole different argument. All of the numbers I have showed you so far did include 9-11 but were not current enough to include Katrina, so you'll have to reduce that to one national disaster.
And, FWIW, I don't see how yearly $300 billion transportation bills, building bridges to nowhere in Alaska, are really recovering from 9-11 or ANY major disaster.
How did lowering taxes increase government spending, btw?

Oddly enough to anyone who doesn't know crap about economics, lowering taxes actually increased tax revenue.

That's so simplistic that it's wrong. Sure it's true in some cases, but it's false in others.

I keep hearing people gripe about Bush's spending record, but every time somebody tries to trim the fat, the very same people scream at the top of their lungs because they don't want THAT fat cut.

Bush has signed every bill that has graced his desk into law. Nobody has done that since John Quincy Adams. Face it, when it comes to government spending, nobody is worse than Bush.

 

[Hobbit]

Have you even been paying attention to the Senate? The Republicans can't cut spending because every time they try, the Democrats filibuster it into non-existance. I have no doubt that Bush would try to cut spending if he thought it would actually get done before his term ran out.

 

[Max Power]

Have you even been paying attention to the Senate? The Republicans can't cut spending because every time they try, the Democrats filibuster it into non-existance. I have no doubt that Bush would try to cut spending if he thought it would actually get done before his term ran out.

Haha.
Republicans control all 3 branches of the government and you STILL can't stop complaining about Democrats.

1. Filibustering doesn't pass laws. All of those spending bills were passed either by Republicans, or with Republican support.
2. Democrats have pretty much only been filibustering judicial nominees.

Try to pass the blame all you want. It resides in both parties.

Oh, and Bush said he wouldn't pass a transportation bill over $256 billion. He signed into law a $295 billion bill. Start having doubt about Bush trying to cut spending.

 

[Gunny]

I think you give LBJ too much credit.

LBJ was the last Democrat in my opinion to actually stand for something, whether or not the conservative viewpoint agrees with his stance. He more than anyone else ended legal segregation in this country.

Unfortunately, his piss-poor handling of the Vietnam War overshadows that fact.

 

[Gunny]

Better at what?

Better at being the Cheif Executive of this Nation.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Hehe. Touche. It does have a touch of humor though... something the article was lacking..

Humour is not needed when exposing liberals, the stories are always so sad that if you dont laugh, you will have to cry anyways.

Yeah. And there are a ton of people who think that Saddam was behind 9-11 and that's why we invaded Iraq. How about someone writes an article about a conversation with them?
"We invaded Iraq because they flew their airliners into our buildings!".

So, your continuing to take straw man arguements to the next level?

I've never heard anybody say that they don't believe the rich pay any taxes, or that George Bush has said anything along those lines. Have you? Seriously?.

RU kidding me? People say that all the time. But its irrelevant anyways, not sure why you even said that.

How does that saying go?
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
What was the stat? The top 1% pay 34% of taxes, right?
Well, what percentage of income do they make? If they make 34% of the income, and pay 34% of the taxes... then that's hardly unfair. Right?.

Irrelevant, she never disputed his stats. She accepted them, but responded that the stats dont matter, her OPINION is......

But the author conveniently chose to ignore this.
Just thought I'd point that out..

Again irrelevant.

Same can be said about conservatives..

Not true at all. Larry would be glad to discuss the issue and present facts, and NOT just walk away not believing what was presented, JUST CUZ... liberals ignore facts all the time. Minimum wage, ohhhh yea, some org. I forget the name, came to california to endorse increasing the minimum wage, but ,,,NOW GET THIS, they went to court to apply to be exempt from the existing minimum wage, they wanted to pay their employees LOWER than the EXISTING minimum wage, to push for HIGHER minimum wages, cuz if they could pay lower than minimum wages, then they could hire more people to do their foot work, DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

so, lets go head to head with meaningless phrases posted by the opposistion.

"its her body"
"thou shalt not kill"
"Tax breaks for the rich"
"haliburton"
"Bush is an idiot"
"Republicans dont care about poor people"
"Repubs are racists"
"Repubs dont care about kids"
"Repubs dont care about education"
"War is not the answer"
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"


ALL are nonsensical, sound good idioisms. Oh, I did see one conservative one the other day
"Vegetarian: Old Indian word for 'lousy hunter' "

And the same can certainly be said about Bush's nutswingers who think he's a conservative despite his record to the contrary.

Well, if hes not a conservative, then I guess you got nothing more to bitch about

 

[LuvRPgrl]

I'm confused. You're saying that Bush haters are liberals?

Bush is the biggest liberal of them all!

Hehe. Except of course when it comes to certain personal freedoms.

Hmmm, oddly enough, your link goes to an article almost exclusively filled with stats...

AND YOU POSTED IT RIGHT AFTER YOU MADE THIS STATEMENT:
How does that saying go?
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
What was the stat? The top 1% pay 34% of taxes, right?"

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Our borders are wide open, government spending is higher than it ever was before... you DON'T think this is driving the country into the ground?

LIAR.

Your own article states that LBJ increased spending more than Bush.

The borders are wide open? hahahah, and that started under Bush's watch? bwahahhahaha

Oh my, spending is high, borders are open,, BETTER RUN! THE SKY IS FALLING !

Got economic news for you, the more money you make, the more you go into debt.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

The national debt is higher than it's ever been. In real terms. Adjusted for inflation. And as a percentage of GDP.


I'm not ignoring inflation. Look at that graph... it's all adjusted for 2000 dollars.
Adjusted for inflation, Bush is worse than Clinton, Carter, Reagan, LBJ... I could go on...


I love this argument.
Republicans control both houses of congress and the white house... so who are all these "liberals" that have a majority in both houses of congress and the white house's approval? Unless you're willing to admit that BOTH the Republicans in congress AND George Bush are liberals...


Well, he didn't HAVE to fight a war (Actually 2 wars), but that's a whole different argument. All of the numbers I have showed you so far did include 9-11 but were not current enough to include Katrina, so you'll have to reduce that to one national disaster.
And, FWIW, I don't see how yearly $300 billion transportation bills, building bridges to nowhere in Alaska, are really recovering from 9-11 or ANY major disaster.
How did lowering taxes increase government spending, btw?


That's so simplistic that it's wrong. Sure it's true in some cases, but it's false in others.


Bush has signed every bill that has graced his desk into law. Nobody has done that since John Quincy Adams. Face it, when it comes to government spending, nobody is worse than Bush.

Youre a liar, and a bad one at that. The Repubs dont CONTROL the house and senate. They may have a majority, but that isnt control. And besides, you flip flop on words, are we discussing CONSERVATIVES OR REPUBLICANS???? NOT ALL REPUBLICANS ARE CONSERVATIVES.

So shut the fuck up unless you want to be consistent. Either discuss republicans or conservatives, dont mix the two as though they are equal.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

LBJ was the last Democrat in my opinion to actually stand for something, whether or not the conservative viewpoint agrees with his stance. He more than anyone else ended legal segregation in this country.

Unfortunately, his piss-poor handling of the Vietnam War overshadows that fact.

His ushering in of federal entitlement programs was one of the ten worst things of the century. Income taxes was the worst.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

The national debt is higher than it's ever been. In real terms. Adjusted for inflation. And as a percentage of GDP..

Bullshit, shut the fuck up with your lying.

It has steadily decreased from , HIGH in 2000 of 20.9%, in terms of percentage, every year Bush has been in office. AND that includes running two wars.

That's so simplistic that it's wrong. Sure it's true in some cases, but it's false in others..

Bullshit again, your fucking lips move and you lie. REVENUES are UP since 2000, and guess what, TAXES WERE CUT....

Social security is one of the biggest outlays, yet when Bush wanted to reform it, WHO FOUGHT HIM ON IT????? THE CONSERVATIVES?? noooooooooo, YOUR A FUCKING BONEHEAD.

Table 2.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Revenues, Outlays, Deficits, Surpluses, and Debt Held by the Public, 1962 to 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Percentage of GDP)
Deficit (-) or Surplus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Debt
Held by
the Publica
Revenues Outlays On-
Budget Social
Security Postal
Service Total

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1962 17.6 18.8 -1.0 -0.2 n.a. -1.3 43.7
1963 17.8 18.6 -0.7 -0.1 n.a. -0.8 42.4
1964 17.6 18.5 -1.0 0.1 n.a. -0.9 40.0
1965 17.0 17.2 -0.2 * n.a. -0.2 37.9
1966 17.3 17.8 -0.4 -0.1 n.a. -0.5 34.9
1967 18.4 19.4 -1.6 0.5 n.a. -1.1 32.9
1968 17.6 20.5 -3.2 0.3 n.a. -2.9 33.3
1969 19.7 19.4 -0.1 0.4 n.a. 0.3 29.3

1970 19.0 19.3 -0.9 0.6 n.a. -0.3 28.0
1971 17.3 19.5 -2.4 0.3 n.a. -2.1 28.1
1972 17.6 19.6 -2.2 0.3 * -2.0 27.4
1973 17.6 18.7 -1.2 * * -1.1 26.0
1974 18.3 18.7 -0.5 0.1 -0.1 -0.4 23.9
1975 17.9 21.3 -3.5 0.1 -0.1 -3.4 25.3
1976 17.1 21.4 -4.0 -0.2 -0.1 -4.2 27.5
1977 18.0 20.7 -2.5 -0.2 * -2.7 27.8
1978 18.0 20.7 -2.5 -0.2 * -2.7 27.4
1979 18.5 20.1 -1.6 -0.1 * -1.6 25.6

1980 19.0 21.7 -2.7 * * -2.7 26.1
1981 19.6 22.2 -2.4 -0.2 * -2.6 25.8
1982 19.2 23.1 -3.7 -0.2 * -4.0 28.7
1983 17.4 23.5 -6.0 * * -6.0 33.0
1984 17.3 22.1 -4.8 * * -4.8 34.0
1985 17.7 22.8 -5.3 0.2 * -5.1 36.3
1986 17.5 22.5 -5.4 0.4 * -5.0 39.5
1987 18.4 21.6 -3.6 0.4 * -3.2 40.6
1988 18.1 21.2 -3.8 0.8 * -3.1 40.9
1989 18.4 21.2 -3.8 1.0 * -2.8 40.6

1990 18.0 21.8 -4.8 1.0 * -3.9 42.0
1991 17.8 22.3 -5.4 0.9 * -4.5 45.3
1992 17.5 22.1 -5.5 0.8 * -4.7 48.1
1993 17.5 21.4 -4.6 0.7 * -3.9 49.4
1994 18.1 21.0 -3.7 0.8 * -2.9 49.3
1995 18.5 20.7 -3.1 0.8 * -2.2 49.2
1996 18.9 20.3 -2.3 0.9 * -1.4 48.5
1997 19.3 19.6 -1.3 1.0 * -0.3 46.1
1998 20.0 19.2 -0.3 1.2 * 0.8 43.1
1999 20.0 18.6 * 1.4 * 1.4 39.8

2000 20.9 18.4 0.9 1.6 * 2.4 35.1
2001 19.8 18.5 -0.3 1.6 * 1.3 33.0
2002 17.8 19.4 -3.1 1.5 * -1.5 34.1
2003 16.4 19.9 -5.0 1.4 * -3.5 36.1
2004 16.3 19.8 -4.9 1.3 * -3.6 37.2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Congressional Budget Office.

Note: n.a. = not applicable; * = between -0.05 percent and 0.05 percent.

a. End of year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Max Power]

Let's see if I can handle this all at once.

So, your continuing to take straw man arguements to the next level?

Yes, that's exactly what I was doing... trying to make a ridiculous argument. I think you missed that.

RU kidding me? People say that all the time. But its irrelevant anyways, not sure why you even said that.

Right, and conservatives all the time say Saddam personally flew the hijacked planes on 9-11.

"its her body"
"thou shalt not kill"
"Tax breaks for the rich"
"haliburton"
"Bush is an idiot"
"Republicans dont care about poor people"
"Repubs are racists"
"Repubs dont care about kids"
"Repubs dont care about education"
"War is not the answer"
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"

Yeah... all of those are stupid, right?
Kindof like "liberals ignore facts all the time," posted by who?

Well, if hes not a conservative, then I guess you got nothing more to bitch about

I can bitch about his ridiculous government expansion... or is that not allowed because it's true?

Hmmm, oddly enough, your link goes to an article almost exclusively filled with stats...

AND YOU POSTED IT RIGHT AFTER YOU MADE THIS STATEMENT:
How does that saying go?
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
What was the stat? The top 1% pay 34% of taxes, right?"

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

The difference being, I pointed out the flaws in his statistics. Go ahead and point out the flaws in mine (if you can).

Got economic news for you, the more money you make, the more you go into debt.

Umm, no.

Youre a liar, and a bad one at that. The Repubs dont CONTROL the house and senate. They may have a majority, but that isnt control. And besides, you flip flop on words, are we discussing CONSERVATIVES OR REPUBLICANS???? NOT ALL REPUBLICANS ARE CONSERVATIVES.

So shut the fuck up unless you want to be consistent. Either discuss republicans or conservatives, dont mix the two as though they are equal.

You need to calm down before you have a heart attack.
The Repubs have a majority in both houses of Congress, and the White House, in other words, they have what is necessary to pass legislation without needing the backing of a single member of another party.

Sorry, I have trouble. Republicans call themselves conservatives, but they aren't. They're flaming liberals. So I get confused. A few important exceptions include Rep Ron Paul of TX.

Bullshit, shut the fuck up with your lying.

You're right sorry. The debt is the biggest it's ever been in nominal and inflation adjusted terms, but not in terms of GDP. In terms of GDP, it's only the biggest its ever been since right after WW2 (Eisenhower)

Bullshit again, your fucking lips move and you lie. REVENUES are UP since 2000, and guess what, TAXES WERE CUT....

So simplistic, that it's obviously false. You're ignoring economic growth.

Social security is one of the biggest outlays, yet when Bush wanted to reform it, WHO FOUGHT HIM ON IT????? THE CONSERVATIVES?? noooooooooo, YOUR A FUCKING BONEHEAD.

Well, he could've passed it with the Republican controlled congress. So I guess it was the alleged "conservatives" who fought him on it.

And seriously... CALM DOWN. You're going to burst a blood vessel.

Okay. I think that's it. Did you get it all?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Let's see if I can handle this all at once.?

Yes, that's exactly what I was doing... trying to make a ridiculous argument. I think you missed that.?

You seriously dont have to "try" its a habit of yours

Right, and conservatives all the time say Saddam personally flew the hijacked planes on 9-11.?

Really, and when did a conservative ever say that?????????

Yeah... all of those are stupid, right?
Kindof like "liberals ignore facts all the time," posted by who??

I see you didnt try to compete on the sheer number of stupid bumper sticker sayings by liberals, instead you deferred to the standard liberal technique of "avoidence"

I can bitch about his ridiculous government expansion... or is that not allowed because it's true??

You cant bitch without being a hypocrite if you think he is the most liberal. But being a hypocrite is nothing new to liberals,,,just like that minimum wage thingy, OHHHHHHYOU IGNORED THAT ONE TOOO

The difference being, I pointed out the flaws in his statistics. Go ahead and point out the flaws in mine (if you can).?

BWAHHAHAHAHHA, You consider asking a question if your figures are right as pointing out flaws?????? bwahhahahah, your "supposed" pointing of the flaws in the stats was this:

Well, what percentage of income do they make? If they make 34% of the income, and pay 34% of the taxes... then that's hardly unfair. Right?

Umm, no.?

Ummm, yes

You need to calm down before you have a heart attack.
The Repubs have a majority in both houses of Congress, and the White House, in other words, they have what is necessary to pass legislation without needing the backing of a single member of another party.?

wrong, much legislation needs more than a simple majority. besides, CONSERVATISM is what you were talking about, not REPUBLICANS,,,and I am calm, what the fuck is your problem? and if I dont want to be calm, what the fuck is it to you....................fuck you,,,,,,,,,

I just dont try to pretend like I never get passionate about things, like that makes one superior or something. Acting snide, not responding to questions, thinking supposedly witty answers proves a point or something. I like exposing the LIES of LIARS on the LEFT,,,you know, LEFTIST LIARS,, like al frankin, etc,,,Air America, YOUR great liberal station that even libs cant stand to listen to , so full of hate, racism, intolerance, and typical right wing bashing and bumper sticker slogans, but even the leftists know they arent true and cant stand listening to it, hahahhahahahhahahahah

Sorry, I have trouble. Republicans call themselves conservatives, but they aren't. They're flaming liberals. So I get confused. A few important exceptions include Rep Ron Paul of TX.?

NO, YOU call republicans conservatives, most call non conservative repubs moderates,,,dont go blaming your LIES on someone else.....and they arent flaming liberals, but they do like playing the pork game, YOUR FAV....

You're right sorry. The debt is the biggest it's ever been in nominal and inflation adjusted terms, but not in terms of GDP. In terms of GDP, it's only the biggest its ever been since right after WW2 (Eisenhower)?

ahhh, so whats that, ,,you were WRONG ????????
OH, yea, biggest ever, so is the economy stupid.

So simplistic, that it's obviously false. You're ignoring economic growth.?

no im not. Its the tax cuts that create the growing economy, hence tax cuts = revenue increases. SIMPLISTIC, yes....difficult for libs to grasp,? YES.....

Well, he could've passed it with the Republican controlled congress. So I guess it was the alleged "conservatives" who fought him on it.?

You guess, you guess, you guess, WRONG...it was the moderate, happy to spend repubs that Bush fought....get educated,,,oh thats right, our liberal controlled schools dont worry about educating anymore.....

And seriously... CALM DOWN. You're going to burst a blood vessel.?

FUCK YOU, I dont want to calm down, hahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhah

Okay. I think that's it. Did you get it all?

Since you basically said nothing, YEA

 

[Max Power]

Really, and when did a conservative ever say that?????????

Same exact time a liberal said that the rich don't pay taxes.

wrong, much legislation needs more than a simple majority.

http://bensguide.gpo.gov/6-8/lawmaking/
Ben's Guide to U.S. Government for Kids.
Read up. All you need is a simple majority in both houses, and the Pres's signature.

Its the tax cuts that create the growing economy, hence tax cuts = revenue increases. SIMPLISTIC, yes....difficult for libs to grasp,? YES.....

HAHAHAHA No.
Economy grew in the mid-late 90's, without tax cuts. Therefore, tax cuts don't create a growing economy.
Besides, tax cuts are meaningless when government spending increases. It's called "borrowing money."

and I am calm, what the fuck is your problem? and if I dont want to be calm, what the fuck is it to you....................fuck you,,,,,,,,,

NUFF SAID!
Someone get this chick some Prozac!