Conspiracy theorists' dream comes true

[CrimsonWhite]

Sorry del, I know this started as a joke, but the tin foil brigade has turned this into yet another basement bound 9/11 conspiracy thread. Its going to the basement.

 

[del]

no worries, CW; i'm surprised it lasted as long as it did

 

[eots]

by tinfoil brigade you would be. referring to people such as this



Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech). Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology. 22-year Air Force career. Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University.
Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It’s impossible. … There’s a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. … Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don’t want us to know what happened and who’s responsible.…

Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it’s highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney.

I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen. Now some people will say that’s much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder." http://video.go


Col. George Nelson, MBA, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. Graduate, U.S. Air Force War College. 34-year Air Force career.

Licensed commercial pilot. Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic.
Essay: "In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident. ...

The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden from public view. …
With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon as alleged. Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged. …

As painful and heartbreaking as was the loss of innocent lives and the lingering health problems of thousands more, a most troublesome and nightmarish probability remains that so many Americans appear to be involved in the most heinous conspiracy in our country's history." Physics911, by Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven, 9/11/2001


Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, MS Aeronautical Science, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Retired U.S. Air Force command fighter pilot. Former instructor; U.S. Air Force Fighter Weapons School and NATO’s Tactical Leadership Program. As an Air Force weapons effects expert was responsible for wartime tasking of most appropriate aircraft/munition for target destruction to include steel and concrete superstructures. Former aeronautical structures flight test engineer with McDonnell Douglas, working on advanced DC-9 autopilot systems and DC-10 flight envelope expansion stress and flutter analysis. Tactical aircraft flown: General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark fighter/bomber, McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle, General Dynamics / Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, McDonnell Douglas F-18 Hornet, Boeing B-1 Bomber, MiG-29 (Russian fighter), and Su-22 (Russian fighter/bomber). 3,000+ fighter hours. Combat time over Iraq. 20-year Air Force career.
Statement to this website 3/25/07: "After 4+ years of research since retirement in 2002, I am 100% convinced that the attacks of September 11, 2001 were planned, organized, and committed by treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government. It is now time to take our country back.

The "collapse" of WTC Building 7 shows beyond any doubt that the demolitions were pre-planned. There is simply no way to demolish a 47-story building (on fire) over a coffee break. It is also impossible to report the building’s collapse before it happened, as BBC News did, unless it was pre-planned. Further damning evidence is Larry Silverstein's video taped confession in which he states "they made that decision to pull [WTC 7] and we watched the building collapse." [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.]

We cannot let the pursuit of justice fail. Those of us in the military took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Just because we have retired does not make that oath invalid, so it is not just our responsibility, it is our duty to expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice, no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how much we have to suffer to do it.

We owe it to those who have gone before us who executed that same oath, and who are doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Those of us who joined the military and faithfully executed orders that were given us had to trust our leaders. The violation and abuse of that trust is not only heinous, but ultimately the most accurate definition of treason!"

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

 

[Uknow_me72]

sometimes I do cry for humanity ..but not today..but that's only because I do understand the world...

Maybe just a puppet. This site is regulated. They usually have a match for anyone out of hand.

Most the time I have seen it is like intern work, to be grand fathered in.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

by tinfoil brigade you would be. referring to people such as this

By tin foil brigade, I mean those like you.

 

[Uknow_me72]

While I have little confidence eots in the ability of some of President-elect Obama's choices namely Eric Holder, and our former Gov. amongst others, I don't envy the position that any President would find himself in now comming into office with 2 wars and an economy that is not doing well. I remain hopeful though and wish him well not only for my sake but for my daughters sake as well and will remain in a wait and see attitude until such time as his administration gives me an indication that it does not have this nations best interests at heart.

Important characters in this discussion.

Undecideds see a Navy and a RGS handle talking and agreeing against EOTS.

Undecideds often play the safe move and go conservative. They will respect the authority that the 2 military names project and move on.

Did I pull that right out of the playbook?

Maybe the sheep will one day look at their shepherds instead of being scared of them.

 

[eots]

By tin foil brigade, I mean those like you.

yes that exactly right people like me..you are correct ..thank you..like this amazing and humble man he sent me a couple of E-mails..I was truly honored...he was very gracious and told me my efforts and courage where important as well..like driving my 1-ton cube van around with 911 is an inside job in letters 4ft high..handing out terrorstorm..and loose change..stuff like that..it was kind of him


David L. Griscom, PhD – Research physicist, retired in 2001 from Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service. Fellow of the American Physical Society. Fulbright-García Robles Fellow at Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México in Mexico City (1997). Visiting professorships of research at the Universities of Paris and Saint-Etienne, France, and Tokyo Institute of Technology (2000 - 2003). Adjunct Professor of Materials Science and Engineering, University of Arizona (2004 - 2005). Winner of the 1993 N. F. Mott Award sponsored by the Journal of Non-Crystalline Solids, the 1995 Otto Schott Award offered by the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Germany), a 1996 Outstanding Graduate School Alumnus Award at Brown University, and the 1997 Sigma Xi Pure Science Award at NRL. Principal author of 109 of his 185 published works, a body of work which is highly cited by his peers. Officially credited with largest number of papers (5) by any author on list of 100 most cited articles authored at NRL between 1973 and 1988.
Personal blog 1/5/07: "David Ray Griffin has web-published a splendid, highly footnoted account of The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True: This scholarly work, rich in eyewitness accounts, includes 11 separate pieces of evidence that the World Trade Center towers 1, 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and 7 were brought down by explosives. [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.]

... I implore my fellow physicists and engineers who may have the time, expertise, and (ideally) supercomputer access to get to work on the physics of the World Trade Center collapses and publish their findings in refereed journals like, say, the Journal of Applied Physics.

The issue of knowing who was really behind the 9/11 attacks is of paramount importance to the future of our country, because the "official" assumption that it was the work of 19 Arab amateurs (1) does not match the available facts and (2) has led directly to the deplorable Patriot Act, the illegal Iraq war, NSA spying on ordinary Americans, repudiation of the Geneva Conventions, and the repeal of habeas corpus (a fundamental point of law that has been with us since the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215).

Surely these Orwellian consequences of public ignorance constitute more than sufficient motivation for any patriotic American physicist or engineer to join the search for 9/11 Truth!" http://impactglassman


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement: "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."


Bio: http://www.impactglassresearchinternational

 

[DiveCon]

Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - Pentagon & Boeing 757 Engine Investigation

 

[Uknow_me72]

Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - Pentagon & Boeing 757 Engine Investigation

Like that's not rigged.

Get the point yet, no matter how much you go back to your uncle sam the axe murderer he won't tell you he did it and has been lying to you the entire time.

 

[DiveCon]

Like that's not rigged.

Get the point yet, no matter how much you go back to your uncle sam the axe murderer he won't tell you he did it and has been lying to you the entire time.

yeah, sure

Aerospaceweb.org | Reference for Aviation, Space, Design, and Engineering

 

[CrimsonWhite]

yes that exactly right people like me..you are correct ..thank you..like this amazing and humble man he sent me a couple of E-mails..I was truly honored...he was very gracious and told me my efforts and courage where important as well..like driving my 1-ton cube van around with 911 is an inside job in letters 4ft high..handing out terrorstorm..and loose change..stuff like that..it was kind of him


David L. Griscom, PhD – Research physicist, retired in 2001 from Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service. Fellow of the American Physical Society. Fulbright-García Robles Fellow at Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México in Mexico City (1997). Visiting professorships of research at the Universities of Paris and Saint-Etienne, France, and Tokyo Institute of Technology (2000 - 2003). Adjunct Professor of Materials Science and Engineering, University of Arizona (2004 - 2005). Winner of the 1993 N. F. Mott Award sponsored by the Journal of Non-Crystalline Solids, the 1995 Otto Schott Award offered by the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Germany), a 1996 Outstanding Graduate School Alumnus Award at Brown University, and the 1997 Sigma Xi Pure Science Award at NRL. Principal author of 109 of his 185 published works, a body of work which is highly cited by his peers. Officially credited with largest number of papers (5) by any author on list of 100 most cited articles authored at NRL between 1973 and 1988.
Personal blog 1/5/07: "David Ray Griffin has web-published a splendid, highly footnoted account of The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True: This scholarly work, rich in eyewitness accounts, includes 11 separate pieces of evidence that the World Trade Center towers 1, 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and 7 were brought down by explosives. [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.]

... I implore my fellow physicists and engineers who may have the time, expertise, and (ideally) supercomputer access to get to work on the physics of the World Trade Center collapses and publish their findings in refereed journals like, say, the Journal of Applied Physics.

The issue of knowing who was really behind the 9/11 attacks is of paramount importance to the future of our country, because the "official" assumption that it was the work of 19 Arab amateurs (1) does not match the available facts and (2) has led directly to the deplorable Patriot Act, the illegal Iraq war, NSA spying on ordinary Americans, repudiation of the Geneva Conventions, and the repeal of habeas corpus (a fundamental point of law that has been with us since the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215).

Surely these Orwellian consequences of public ignorance constitute more than sufficient motivation for any patriotic American physicist or engineer to join the search for 9/11 Truth!" http://impactglassman


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement: "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."


Bio: http://www.impactglassresearchinternational

 

[DiveCon]

yeah, they post absolute nonsense, yet when you post actual facts they claim its fake

 

[Uknow_me72]

You worship facts DC. That is your idolism.

Facts do nothing for you but make's you religious to the government's science system. You take your facts from the governments bible, I mean internet websites.


So Dive Con and Crimson White.....
I want to make the point that we (the entire world) are basing our intelligence level, education level, and general knowledge level on what material the governments deem appropriate. We are taking their word for it as is because of the authority that they have bred the people of the world to respect.

So don't you see the trend or the big deal? Too much faith has been put into a system that limits growth for the people and puts controls and restraints on what they can do. Those restraints have been getting tighter and tighter and we are around the corner are new programs that coincide with another authority system that predicts the out come of the events. So you have 2 systems that agree and disagree with each other on many levels. One system see's the new system as the end of times and the old system as the start of time. So the new system and old system have crossed paths so many times and play off each other so much that it has caused confusion of the entire world and a easy path for the new system to exploit the beliefs of the old system.

This NWO system is going to be the next system that combines both.... so where would be then?

Tell me you can see whats going on here. The governments are pitting the people vs the people on their separate beliefs so no one can get along. They all have a different idea.

But the government stays steady and continues on knowing that a majority of the world has no idea what is going and are on their side and as long as they have people that believe what they say because everyone else does and has pretty pictures to show as proof they will not make any ration actions.

So if you job is to come here on behalf of any agency that doesn't want people talking, like big brother or what ever you call yourself....
Your constant battering of the conspiracy boards all over the internet and people are starting to recognize who you are....
You yourself are being a double-edged sword as you cut yourself many times and we can see you bleed.

 

[DiveCon]

yeah, those damn facts, always getting in the way of a good conspiracy

 

[Uknow_me72]

yeah, those damn facts, always getting in the way of a good conspiracy

No, the facts are the conspiracy.

 

[DiveCon]

No, the facts are the conspiracy.

uh huh *smile* *nod*

 

[bk1983]

No, the facts are the conspiracy.

So is the fiction the truth?

 

[BlackAsCoal]

You now BaC while, I think honest questioning of authority is a good thing to suggest that somehow I am too lazy to post the host of theories out there as they relate to the events of 9-11 as fact is somewhat off the mark. I am well aware of the flight dynamics of the Boeing 757 as well as many other aircraft both commercial and non commercial. The very first thing you discover in any accident investigation is that no two accidents involving aircraft are exactly the same when it comes to the causes as well as the appearance of airframe components. Each accident is directly related to aircraft performance, pilot performance, weather issues, and other factors as to the dynamics of the actual accident. Hare are a few examples,

This was a Boeing 737-300 that crashed into a cargo terminal killing 200 people in Brazil. It did so moving much slower than AA-77 but the dynamics of the crash show that impact you will see on a building will not be the exact size of the aircraft that strikes it. I'm well aware of the Navy Aviators opinion in the matter as it relates to the training issue but, keep in mind these people need not know how to land or to take off these aircraft or for that matter keep them in level flight for long periods of time. Once they had basic flying skills these types aircraft are not all that hard to fly.

CNN.com - 110 killed in Iran plane crash - Dec 6, 2005

Yet another aircraft that struk a building, I invite you to look at the damage in this crash of a C-130 which is 4 engine aircraft and see the dynamics at play here. The theories that the "HOLE" should be in relation to the size of the aircraft is complete lunacy to anyone that knows anything about aviation. When that all aluminum airframe traveling at over 450Kts. struck the side of the pentagon it would literally turn into something akin to a sabot round after each part had been sheered away from the sheer force of the impact. The hole you see in the Pentagon is completely in line with the aircraft size and type and taken along with the following, aircraft parts, wheel hubs, engine assemblies, and literally tons of aircraft aluminum consistent with a Boeing 757-200 and given the fact that AA-77 never arrived and squawked it's last position near the Pentagon, and the fact the passengers and crew aboard are no longer alive. There is no doubt what soever that a Boeing 757-200 struck the Pentagon on 9-11 no matter how much people want it to be something else.

The four recorders from the other two hijacked planes - American Airlines Flight 77, which was flown into the Pentagon, and United Flight 93, which crashed near Somerset, Pa. - were recovered within days.

FBI Director Robert Mueller said Flight 77's data recorder provided altitude, speed, headings and other information, but the voice recorder contained nothing useful. He declined to say what was gleaned from recorders on Flight 93, whose passengers evidently fought the hijackers before the Boeing 757 went down in a field, killing all aboard.

The trade center data recorders would fill in information lost to controllers when the two planes' transponders, which provide real-time speed and altitude, were turned off.

Those FDR's were found in the wreckage of the pentagon BaC again consistent with a Boeing 757-200. Now while I completely understand that people would like there to be some dark Govt. body behind this attack but this is just not so. As to your question in reference to Hearst, I am well aware of who that is. One of the reasons I used the Popular Mechanics as a source is it has more history and is respected more so than the many web pages out there too numerous to mention that have zero credibility when it comes to aviation or science.

After about a week of training, I was familiar with the layout of the flight deck and with the operation of the flight controls, autopilot, and navigation systems. As a result, flying the simulator was much less difficult than I had imagined at the beginning of the course. The most difficult part of the simulator training was takeoffs and landings. On the other hand, flying the aircraft in other phases of flight was relatively easy, even compared to flying a Cessna 172. Changing the aircraft's course, speed, or altitude was not very difficult when using either the autopilot system or when flying the aircraft manually. The flight control system made the aircraft rather responsive and made it easy to perform normal flying manuvers.
The AirSafe Journal vol. 1 num. 16

BaC, I try to be as respectful as I can to everyone on this board and allow for all views in debate. While I respect that you choose not accept obvious scientific fact that is your choice and I completely respect that. If you wish though to engage me in aviation issues in the future know that I have been involved in aviation for over 32 years now and if I had to investigate the crash based on the data presented there is no other conclusion that could be reached , unless those passengers and crew just happen to show up one day and that aircraft is sitting in the boneyard in Tucson. The one thing you learn about secrets especially in the Govt. for one of the magnitude your talking it would not have stayed a secret this long.

You misinterpreted my comment brother .. which should have read "I'm too lazy to post the plethora of stuff that's missing and wrong with the FISA Report.

I apologize for not being more clear, but surely you recognize I have great respect for you and your thoughts .. and I'd never purposely try to insult you.

My point to you was there are credible, experienced, and higly patriotic individuals who do not believe the fairy-tale and who cannot simply be put in the box of "loonies."

Also, I disagree with your assertion that "it would not have remained secret this long" .. which makes the deception of Pearl Harbor all the more timely. 67 years later, many still don't believe the truth .. and if I'm not mistaken, that includes you.

Without going through everything you've said .. there is one undeniable truth ..there are no exceptions to impossible and what you seem to believe is impossible.

Building 7 only had small fires, yet collaped into it's own footpring at free fall speed .. and you don't have any idea how this was even possible. No steel-frame building has EVER collapsed from fire in the history of history .. yet it happened three times that day. It's not possible.

Why? because it's not possible and there is NO SCIENCE that says it's possible.

If you would .. do not avoid building 7 in your response

You did not address how the roof could have possibly remained intact.

You did not address why the lawn had no skid marks, burn marks, or craters .. given that the roof remained intact.

You did not address how the same type plane that melted giant buildings carrying approximately about the same amount of fuel. flying at about the same speed could have only left a 16x14ft hole and lwhere the wings .. where the fuel is stored .. leave no visible marks on the building and cause so little damage .. couldn't even burn the paper pages of an open book.

You did not address why no pictures of the crash were released when they have plenty of pictures.

You did not address where the 7ft engines where .. or for that matter, where the planes is. If you believe the plane passengers, engines, luggage, and all vaporized .. that would be interesting indeed .. not believeable, but interesting.

Are you of the belief that untrained cavemen could climb behind the wheel of large aircraft and fly them flawlessly and make manuevers even combat pilots cannoit make. .. I'm not .. neither are the combat pilots I posted.
Of all the evidence, Building 7 stands as the most clear indication that this was a fraud.

Any idea why the Bush Admninistration removed critical evidence from the crime scenes?

Any idea why the report you cited did not include thermite evidence found by FEMA?

Additionally, are you aware of how many gag orders have been issued by the Bush Administration regarding 9/11? They even gagged the NYPD and NYFD. FIVE YEARS if you talk. SEE: Sibel Edmonds.

There are a thousand question about the events of 9/11 that you can't answer .. mostly because they are IMPOSSIBLE to have occured as you've been told.

Steel does not melt from kerosene.

Collapsing structures from weakening do not uniformly fall at free fall speed.

BEFORE .. the Madrid Fire

AFTER

Even the heavy crane is still on top of the building.

Steel frame buildings do not collapse from fire .. it's impossible .. that's why it has NEVER happened .. EVER.

WTC7 fires 32 minutes before it collapsed ..

It's absolutely mindboggling to me that anyone, especially someone as intelligent as you, would believe this bullshit. I'm amazed.

Buildings do not melt from fire .. post just ONE that ever has in the history of Man.

 

[eots]

well of course you don't he is one of the top 1oo most cited university professors...how about you just look at the pictures..okay

 

[Silence]

No, the facts are the conspiracy.

how are facts conspiracy?