Conservatives waking up to climate change

[Saigon]

Interesting to see science data quietly commissioned by the conservative government in New Zealand offering immense detail as to how climate change has impacted New Zealand's vital farming sector...I think this is interesting because it details how localised some climate impacts will be, something that often seems to confuse right-wingers here, who seem to think the entire world should experience the same impacts.

Note that the report does highlight some positives - and also notes that many of the impacts have already occured:

A new report has spelled out our future under climate change - but warns there is still much to learn over what it will mean for extreme events, diseases, pests and other impacts.

The report, published by the Office of the Chief Science Adviser yesterday, also says more work is needed to understand what 2C of change over the next century will mean for different regions.

There would be less rainfall in summer and autumn over the west of the North Island - but rates could increase by 5 per cent in winter and spring.

The picture was again different on the other side of the island; the Gisborne and Hawkes Bay regions stood to lose up to 10 per cent of its winter and spring rainfall.

Extreme weather on the horizon - National - NZ Herald News

 

[S.J.]

They have no credibility, they've been caught lying.

 

[Saigon]

S.j. -

When was the Office of the Chief Science Adviser caught lying?

Rather than just jam your fingers in your ears, it is perhaps worth reading what conservative science sources have to say and responding accordingly.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Conservatives waking up to climate change…

…and then going back to sleep.

 

[Saigon]

Conservatives waking up to climate change…

…and then going back to sleep.

You could be right.

Certainly in NZ the government has been slow to react, but at least these days there seems to be a general awareness that they have to do more to protect farming.

It's slightly ironic that farmers are one of the largest and most right-wing voting blocs in New Zealand, and yet it is they who have had to push government to act on climate change.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Conservatives waking up to climate change…

…and then going back to sleep.

You could be right.

Certainly in NZ the government has been slow to react, but at least these days there seems to be a general awareness that they have to do more to protect farming.

It's slightly ironic that farmers are one of the largest and most right-wing voting blocs in New Zealand, and yet it is they who have had to push government to act on climate change.

In the United States it’s not a matter of ‘could.’

For American conservatives the facts and science are irrelevant, buried deep beneath layers of fear, greed, and partisan dogma.

Conservatives are fearful of efforts to address climate change because they incorrectly perceive such efforts as ‘internationalism,’ the advent of a ‘one world government.’

Conservatives are fearful of efforts to address climate change because they incorrectly perceive such efforts as having an ‘adverse effect’ on corporate profits, resulting in ‘high unemployment’ and ‘economic disaster.’

Conservatives are fearful of efforts to address climate change because they incorrectly perceive such efforts as meaning they’ll have to make ‘personal sacrifices,’ such as giving up air conditioning, automobiles, and being forced to live in ‘multi-family dwellings.’

Is this all unfounded idiocy? Of course it is.

 

[Saigon]

Clayton -

The problem for those who make scientific policies based on politics is that the real world will always intervene.

2012 saw the US suffer catastrophic droughts and the hottest year on record. Farmers are suffering, and many farming groups are well aware of what kind of future they face. Crops like wine/grapes, cotton, cattle, fruit and vegetables are all very vulnerable to drought, floods and increased winds; not only directly but through secondary costs such as increased usage of water for irrigation, increased need for wind breaks, flood control, animal shelters etc etc.

Ultimately, it is likely farmers who will force the GOP to face up to the realities they are dealing with every day.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Climate Change is a scam designed to get you to accept higher taxes and less freedom of choice.

 

[Saigon]

Climate Change is a scam designed to get you to accept higher taxes and less freedom of choice.

Understanding climate change is very easy -

Basically ALL scientists and ALL scientific organisations agree that human activity impacts the climate.

Many right-wing politicians (largely in the US) do not agree that human activity impacts the climate.

Which group do you think are more likely to be right?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Clayton -

The problem for those who make scientific policies based on politics is that the real world will always intervene.

2012 saw the US suffer catastrophic droughts and the hottest year on record. Farmers are suffering, and many farming groups are well aware of what kind of future they face. Crops like wine/grapes, cotton, cattle, fruit and vegetables are all very vulnerable to drought, floods and increased winds; not only directly but through secondary costs such as increased usage of water for irrigation, increased need for wind breaks, flood control, animal shelters etc etc.

Ultimately, it is likely farmers who will force the GOP to face up to the realities they are dealing with every day.

The conservative response to this would be that droughts, floods, and increased winds are all part of the ‘natural cycle,’ consequently any change in human behavior is ‘unwarranted.’

It is not in the fundamental nature of conservatives to be forward thinking, to contemplate the future and their responsibility to future generations.

Modern American conservatives retain the essence of the robber baron, where one has an ‘inalienable right’ to exploit natural resource, accumulate as much wealth as possible, and aggressively consume and pollute with no regard for the consequences.

 

[Old Rocks]

Climate Change is a scam designed to get you to accept higher taxes and less freedom of choice.

Have you actually done any kind of research on what is happening, right here and now? I don't think so, in fact, I bet you have never read a single scientific article concerning how GHGs work, and what the effects we have already seen.

Simply repeating that tired "Conservative" meme will simply getted you tagged as an utter fool as the consequences of a changing climate become more evident every year.

 

[mudwhistle]

This is another one of the left's red-herrings.

Just about everyone supports background checks
The Bush Tax-cuts for the rich were actually for everyone......

.......and everyone knows that the climate will change if you wait long enough. It doesn't take a scientist to figure that one out. What is bull shit is "Global Warming".

 

[mudwhistle]

Democrats seem to think their supporters are stupid........and they're correct.

 

[Old Rocks]

Democrats seem to think their supporters are stupid........and they're correct.

Now Mud, you pretty well define stupid.

Global warming is very simple, you pump GHGs into the atmosphere, and the whole globe warms. One can see this clearly in the geological record. You pump in GHGs rapidly, and the climate changes rapidly, resulting in extinction events. That is clear in the geological record, also. At present, we are changing the amount of GHGs in the atmosphere at a rate ten times that of the prior times that caused extinction events. The decades ahead are going to be very interesting.

 

[mudwhistle]

Democrats seem to think their supporters are stupid........and they're correct.

Now Mud, you pretty well define stupid.

Global warming is very simple, you pump GHGs into the atmosphere, and the whole globe warms. One can see this clearly in the geological record. You pump in GHGs rapidly, and the climate changes rapidly, resulting in extinction events. That is clear in the geological record, also. At present, we are changing the amount of GHGs in the atmosphere at a rate ten times that of the prior times that caused extinction events. The decades ahead are going to be very interesting.

Of the GHGs being pumped into the atmosphere man only pumps a fraction of it. About .01%. The oceans and volcanoes pump the rest.

So STFU asshole.

 

[Saigon]

Mud-

The topic of this thread is how conservative governments are preparing for climate change.

The topic of this thread is not the endless theatre of faux-denial.

 

[Old Rocks]

Dumb ass. We have increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere from 280 ppm to 400 ppm. The amount of CH4 from 700 ppb to over 1800 ppm. That is significant, considering that 100 ppm of CO2 is the differance between an ice age, and an interglacial period. And that the amount of CH4 in the atmosphere has not been seen for many millions of years.

People like you keep repeating that meme, "contributing a tiny amount to the total", knowing that is is a complete lie.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Climate Change is a scam designed to get you to accept higher taxes and less freedom of choice.

Have you actually done any kind of research on what is happening, right here and now? I don't think so, in fact, I bet you have never read a single scientific article concerning how GHGs work, and what the effects we have already seen.

Simply repeating that tired "Conservative" meme will simply getted you tagged as an utter fool as the consequences of a changing climate become more evident every year.

You have any laboratory experiments showing how GHG's alter the Jet stream?

 

[Old Rocks]

Mud-

The topic of this thread is how conservative governments are preparing for climate change.

The topic of this thread is not the endless theatre of faux-denial.

On that issue, only a very few governments are actually looking at the whole picture of what climate change really means. Most, like us, are waiting until emergencies force action, a plan that will result in many trillions of dollars and who knows how many lives, lost.

It is more than just an issue of clean energy. Look at the swing in weather in our breadbasket from 2011, floods to the point that some of the upstream dams on the Missouri and Mississippi were on the verge of failure. Had that happened, we would have had our first trillion dollar weather event. Then, in 2012, severe drought in exactly the same area. Russia has also had extreme weather events close together in time, as has Australia. But, in all these natons, denial is winning the day.

So, what I see happening is that it will take a huge event, something that kills tens of thousands of people, and has a enormous effect on the economy of these nations, to wake up any one of them. And then, only that nation will have it's eyes opened. The others will continue to deny, and continue on the same course, until it happens in their backyard. And by that time, the Arctic clathrates and permafrost will have become the primary producers of the GHGs, and we will just be along for the ride.

 

[Old Rocks]

Climate Change is a scam designed to get you to accept higher taxes and less freedom of choice.

Have you actually done any kind of research on what is happening, right here and now? I don't think so, in fact, I bet you have never read a single scientific article concerning how GHGs work, and what the effects we have already seen.

Simply repeating that tired "Conservative" meme will simply getted you tagged as an utter fool as the consequences of a changing climate become more evident every year.

You have any laboratory experiments showing how GHG's alter the Jet stream?

Yes, a really great big one;

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtRvcXUIyZg]Weather and Climate Summit - Day 5, Jennifer Francis - YouTube[/ame]