Conservatives simply don't know economics

[Toddsterpatriot]

it's actually a small responsive government fix, tax cuts are just a benefit of slicing down government to its Constitutional purpose.

All tax cuts do is raise fees for consumers. Like what happened in Kansas; they cut taxes, which cut tax revenue, which resulted in a deficit, which had to be closed because of Kansas' BBA, which resulted in spending cuts to education, which forced the Kansas State Board of Regents to raise tuition, which forced students to borrow more, which burdened them with more debt, which delays them starting a family and/or buying a house, which harms the economy.

Without people using their houses as ATMs during Bush, his economic growth looks pretty shitty, doesn't it?

And unfunded liabilities, a 43% tax increase and NO cuts to spending like Illinois just did is based on "sound general principles"?

Conservatives screech constantly about "unfunded liabilities", but lack any sort of context for those liabilities. You say there's an unfunded liability...well, over how many years? Because those benefits are paid out over a period of 10, 20, 50 years, not all at once. You cannot possibly know what tax revenue figures will look like that far in advance. You can't even know what those figures look like 1 year in advance! So you assume that the growth in revenues remains constant at its current level and doesn't increase, even if GDP grows? I mean, come on. This is just pathetic and desperate.

Conservatives screech constantly about "unfunded liabilities", but lack any sort of context for those liabilities. You say there's an unfunded liability...well, over how many years?

There are people called actuaries and accountants who use actual math to come up with the projected shortfalls.

So you assume that the growth in revenues remains constant at its current level and doesn't increase, even if GDP grows?

No, stupid static assumptions would be what a liberal uses.
That's why liberal projections are always so laughably bad.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You do know that tax increases can also increase deficits if the people decide it's not worth sticking around to pay the additional taxes, right?

Which has never fucking happened, ever, to any meaningful degree. I've never heard a business owner say they don't want to make more profit because they have to pay more taxes. That's just idiocy. You're better than that.

So you completely deny the concept of increased commerce leading to increase tax revenue with lower rates?

There is no connection between lower rates and more commerce. Quite the opposite actually, as we see here. Bush cut taxes in 2001, notice how shitty his growth was after that:

Which has never fucking happened, ever, to any meaningful degree.

Businesses fleeing California for Texas. It was in all the papers.

Billionaires fleeing Connecticut for Florida.

Jun 16, 2015 @ 12:23 PM
Fiscal Suicide: Connecticut Governor Malloy's $40 Billion Budget

The state legislature in Hartford is at it again. Despite Connecticut being an object lesson in “how not to tax,” Governor Dannel P. Malloy and top Democratic leaders introduced a two-year, $40 billion budget that further cements the state’s growth-averse reputation. Voting mostly along party lines, the Connecticut Senate approved the budget 19-17 last week. With that approval comes tax hikes on corporations, successful small business owners, and middle-class families.

It’s an understatement to say that these hikes will have a chilling effect on the Connecticut economy. The downward slide can be traced back to 1991, when the state adopted an income tax. (The highest rate at that time was 1.5 percent; it now stands at 6.5 percent.) Between 1992 and 2011, Connecticut lost $7.4 billion in net adjusted gross income (AGI) and lost nearly 200,000 residents.

One of the budget’s most egregious inclusions is a $700 million increase in taxes on businesses, including extending the state’s 20 percent surcharge on the corporate profits tax. Not surprisingly, the hikes are prompting corporations headquartered in Connecticut to seek friendlier economic climates in order to maintain their competitive advantage. Last week, House Republican Leader Themis Klarides equated the newly passed budget to “holding up a sign at the border to businesses and saying get out.”

Fiscal Suicide: Connecticut Governor Malloy's $40 Billion Budget

This shouldn't be a problem. No one ever moves to escape rising taxes.

CT’s tax revenue plunge bottoms out at $1.5B
By: Keith M. Phaneuf | May 1, 2017

Connecticut’s latest budget nightmare became reality Monday.

Analysts for Gov. Dannel P. Malloy’s adminstration and the legislature’s nonpartisan Office of Fiscal Analysis downgraded anticipated revenues for the next two fiscal years by $1.46 billion — nearly $600 million next fiscal year and $865 million in 2018-19 — largely because of eroding income tax receipts.

Projected revenues now fall $2.2 billion, or 11.3 percent, short of the funding needed to maintain current services in 2017-18. And with the potential deficit swelling to $2.7 billion, or 13.6 percent, in 2018-19, the biennial shortfall approaches $5 billion.

Income tax took the biggest hit
The income tax, the state’s largest revenue engine, saw the most erosion by far.

According to analysts, income tax receipts this fiscal year now are expected to total just under $9 billion. Not only is that well below the $9.44 billion analysts were anticipating just four months ago, but it falls short of the $9.2 billion collected last fiscal year.

Malloy noted Monday this report comes with some dangerous signs.

Income tax receipts are eperiencing their first major decline since 2009 — just as Connecticut fell into The Great Recession.

And the bulk of the latest income tax erosion was tied not to paycheck withholding but to quarterly filings, most of which involves capital gains, dividends and other investment-related earnings.

According to the governor’s budget office, the state’s 100 largest-income taxpayers paid 45 percent less this year than last.

CT’s tax revenue plunge bottoms out at $1.5B

LOL!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The thought processes of hardcore partisan ideologues on both ends of the spectrum appear to be distorted, and their ideologies generally render them inflexible and incurious.

So trying to discuss something has dense, broad and complicated as economics with many of them, is typically a waste of time. As it is with many other issues.
.

I don't think they are equal.

I don't often see liberals try to claim that spending doesn't contribute to deficits, yet on the right self-financing tax cuts is pretty much a given.

There is disproportionate amount of ignorance, magical thinking and dogma on the right when it comes to economics.

The Left has their own weaknesses when it comes to economics. They're just simplistic in other areas.

Either way, it's often a wasted exercise. It's my profession. I don't argue with the auto mechanic when he fixes my car, because I don't know shit about cars.
.

But that's not responding to what I said. Never said that there are not "weaknesses" the left, What i said what that it's much more common on the right.

Not from the perspective of an independent. What I see is more than enough arrogant ignorance on both ends.
.

What on the left is the equivalent of a tax-cut cult that we have on the right?

What on the left is the equivalent of a tax-cut cult that we have on the right?

That would have to be the "Tax rate hikes never harm economic growth or de-incentivize business activity. If we hike rates by 50%, we'll get 50% more revenue"

 

[Darkwind]

This is why no discussion on the economy is possible with the left.

They are fixated on nothing but tax cuts. You can tell them that a corresponding cut in spending results in the exact same balance, and they will simply ignore it.

1. The U.S. government is not the economy. Economics is much broader than just the government and MUST encompass the private sector in addition to government.

2. No amount of tax policy is every going to be reliable as a means of driving economic activity UNTIL the matter of spending is decided.

No Republican or Conservative should ever talk to a left-leaning person about economics until such time as spending priorities are agreed upon.

This government spends money it should not be spending. Eliminate the unconstitutional spending FIRST, then talk about taxation.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. You put the supply out there and the demand will follow,” Perry said, according to a reporter on the scene.
.

Perry was right of course. We got from stone age to here thanks to the supply of new inventions! So, govt should always encourage supply, as Republicans want, or at least not get in the way of it. Econ 101

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There is disproportionate amount of ignorance, magical thinking and dogma on the right when it comes to economics.

not really. Ever heard of East/West Germany?? Cuba/Florida??

 

[danielpalos]

Another 'Oops' Moment? Rick Perry Quote on Supply and Demand Mocked

Energy Secretary Rick Perry has a reputation for verbal gaffes, so the internet pounced on his latest remarks.

In a visit to a coal-fired power plant in West Virginia, the former Texas governor and two-time presidential candidate appeared to misstate a fundamental economic principle.

“Here’s a little economics lesson: supply and demand. You put the supply out there and the demand will follow,” Perry said, according to a reporter on the scene.

What an idiot. Must be why there's an oversupply of coal in the world.

BTW - he got a "D" in "Principles of Economics" while at Texas A&M. It shows.

The right likes to disprove laws and maxims.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Or maybe we just respond to people who don't feel the need to make themselves seem smarter by typing large volumes of wasted words.

Is that supposed to be an attack on me? The reason I write a lot is because I am not a simpleton who has to have things boiled down to monosyllabic words that are easy to read and spell. That's why Conservative ideas are always so stupid.

If so why so afraid to tell us a significant conservative idea that is stupid. What does your fear teach you

 

[ScienceRocks]

Archo-capitalism is at the core of what it is to be a conservative today...
-give all the wealth to the rich
-Let the rich mistreat the workers
-Let the rich do as they damn well please

That is what it is all about.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Archo-capitalism is at the core of what it is to be a conservative today...
-give all the wealth to the rich
-Let the rich mistreat the workers
-Let the rich do as they damn well please

That is what it is all about.

Do you have an example of what you mean by giving the wealth to the rich? Sort of a stupid thing to say given that we discriminate against the rich by taxing them or taking from them not giving to them disproportionately.

 

[danielpalos]

This is why no discussion on the economy is possible with the left.

They are fixated on nothing but tax cuts. You can tell them that a corresponding cut in spending results in the exact same balance, and they will simply ignore it.

1. The U.S. government is not the economy. Economics is much broader than just the government and MUST encompass the private sector in addition to government.

2. No amount of tax policy is every going to be reliable as a means of driving economic activity UNTIL the matter of spending is decided.

No Republican or Conservative should ever talk to a left-leaning person about economics until such time as spending priorities are agreed upon.

This government spends money it should not be spending. Eliminate the unconstitutional spending FIRST, then talk about taxation.

End the Drug War, right wingers. Don't be, all political talk and no political action.

 

[danielpalos]

Or maybe we just respond to people who don't feel the need to make themselves seem smarter by typing large volumes of wasted words.

Is that supposed to be an attack on me? The reason I write a lot is because I am not a simpleton who has to have things boiled down to monosyllabic words that are easy to read and spell. That's why Conservative ideas are always so stupid.

If so why so afraid to tell us a significant conservative idea that is stupid. What does your fear teach you

Poverty is an Individual problem not an Institutional problem created by public policy.

 

[danielpalos]

Archo-capitalism is at the core of what it is to be a conservative today...
-give all the wealth to the rich
-Let the rich mistreat the workers
-Let the rich do as they damn well please

That is what it is all about.

Do you have an example of what you mean by giving the wealth to the rich? Sort of a stupid thing to say given that we discriminate against the rich by taxing them or taking from them not giving to them disproportionately.

Lowering taxes so the rich can get richer while "ballooning our debt", is merely income redistribution.

 

[Correll]

This doesn't prove that conservatives don't understand economics. It proves that Rick Perry doesn't understand economics.

Conservatives probably understand economics better than liberals.

Though to be fair, one has to wonder how mind numbing such visits must be.

 

[martybegan]

Archo-capitalism is at the core of what it is to be a conservative today...
-give all the wealth to the rich
-Let the rich mistreat the workers
-Let the rich do as they damn well please

That is what it is all about.

As compared to progressive statism:

Give moar money to the government
inflate government with countless worker drones sucking at the tax teat
Use this to increase government power
send a few crumbs back to the proles so you can say "we took their monies and gave it to you!!!"
drink a nice mojito in DC at one of the parties thrown by some lobbyist.

 

[Darkwind]

This is why no discussion on the economy is possible with the left.

They are fixated on nothing but tax cuts. You can tell them that a corresponding cut in spending results in the exact same balance, and they will simply ignore it.

1. The U.S. government is not the economy. Economics is much broader than just the government and MUST encompass the private sector in addition to government.

2. No amount of tax policy is every going to be reliable as a means of driving economic activity UNTIL the matter of spending is decided.

No Republican or Conservative should ever talk to a left-leaning person about economics until such time as spending priorities are agreed upon.

This government spends money it should not be spending. Eliminate the unconstitutional spending FIRST, then talk about taxation.

End the Drug War, right wingers. Don't be, all political talk and no political action.

I'll tell you what, you stand in front of a crowd of parents who have lost children to the opioid/heroin crisis and say that. Come on, put up or shut up.

 

[danielpalos]

This is why no discussion on the economy is possible with the left.

They are fixated on nothing but tax cuts. You can tell them that a corresponding cut in spending results in the exact same balance, and they will simply ignore it.

1. The U.S. government is not the economy. Economics is much broader than just the government and MUST encompass the private sector in addition to government.

2. No amount of tax policy is every going to be reliable as a means of driving economic activity UNTIL the matter of spending is decided.

No Republican or Conservative should ever talk to a left-leaning person about economics until such time as spending priorities are agreed upon.

This government spends money it should not be spending. Eliminate the unconstitutional spending FIRST, then talk about taxation.

End the Drug War, right wingers. Don't be, all political talk and no political action.

I'll tell you what, you stand in front of a crowd of parents who have lost children to the opioid/heroin crisis and say that. Come on, put up or shut up.

What happened to Individual Responsibility now, right wingers. All political talk and no political action?

 

[Darkwind]

This is why no discussion on the economy is possible with the left.

They are fixated on nothing but tax cuts. You can tell them that a corresponding cut in spending results in the exact same balance, and they will simply ignore it.

1. The U.S. government is not the economy. Economics is much broader than just the government and MUST encompass the private sector in addition to government.

2. No amount of tax policy is every going to be reliable as a means of driving economic activity UNTIL the matter of spending is decided.

No Republican or Conservative should ever talk to a left-leaning person about economics until such time as spending priorities are agreed upon.

This government spends money it should not be spending. Eliminate the unconstitutional spending FIRST, then talk about taxation.

End the Drug War, right wingers. Don't be, all political talk and no political action.

I'll tell you what, you stand in front of a crowd of parents who have lost children to the opioid/heroin crisis and say that. Come on, put up or shut up.

What happened to Individual Responsibility now, right wingers. All political talk and no political action?

What a joke.

We don't allow children to make certain choices because they often don't understand the ramifications of their actions. You want to end the drug on wars so you can get high. You have no argument, personal or economic.

 

[danielpalos]

This is why no discussion on the economy is possible with the left.

They are fixated on nothing but tax cuts. You can tell them that a corresponding cut in spending results in the exact same balance, and they will simply ignore it.

1. The U.S. government is not the economy. Economics is much broader than just the government and MUST encompass the private sector in addition to government.

2. No amount of tax policy is every going to be reliable as a means of driving economic activity UNTIL the matter of spending is decided.

No Republican or Conservative should ever talk to a left-leaning person about economics until such time as spending priorities are agreed upon.

This government spends money it should not be spending. Eliminate the unconstitutional spending FIRST, then talk about taxation.

End the Drug War, right wingers. Don't be, all political talk and no political action.

I'll tell you what, you stand in front of a crowd of parents who have lost children to the opioid/heroin crisis and say that. Come on, put up or shut up.

What happened to Individual Responsibility now, right wingers. All political talk and no political action?

What a joke.

We don't allow children to make certain choices because they often don't understand the ramifications of their actions. You want to end the drug on wars so you can get high. You have no argument, personal or economic.

Special pleading now? The drug war is not about children; children have parents. Children can do drugs, with adult supervision.