Conservatives may want to read this piece about socialism

[Mac1958]

I'm hoping we can stay on point here and not degenerate into yet another shallow, platitude-filled discussion on the evils of socialism.

Full disclosure up front: Writer Michael Tomasky is a hardcore left wing partisan ideologue. But in this piece, he actually offers some serious, reasonable, salient advice about the rise in popularity of socialism in this country:

Opinion | What Are Capitalists Thinking?

Examples:

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them. Ask yourself: If you’re 28 like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York congressional candidate who describes herself as a democratic socialist, what have you seen during your sentient life?

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial’s Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

So, back now to our 28-year-old. She was born in 1990. She will probably remember, in the late ’90s, her parents feeling pretty good about things — median household income did go up under Bill Clinton more than they had under any president in a long time, even more than under Ronald Reagan. But ever since, the median income picture has been much spottier, hardly increasing at all in inflation-adjusted dollars over 18 long years. And those incomes at the top have shot to the heavens.

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism? The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?

I actually like this, it is certainly heavily slanted but I am not sure you can write pro [or con] about something without a natural slant, that said, I think I may actually be a socialist.

When I see and here liberals speak they just sound so dang uneducated, but the socialists come across as well read and articulate and come without all the "where's my money" non-sense.

But with "A.I." bearing down on us at breakneck speed I think we are going to need a very healthy dose of socialism to keep us in the game...of course all this could just be my age speaking.

 

[BlackSand]

.​

If your excuse for more socialism is the fact society has continually screwed you ...
Then you may want to reexamine where you are attempting to look for assistance ... ​

.​

 

[iceberg]

I'm hoping we can stay on point here and not degenerate into yet another shallow, platitude-filled discussion on the evils of socialism.

Full disclosure up front: Writer Michael Tomasky is a hardcore left wing partisan ideologue. But in this piece, he actually offers some serious, reasonable, salient advice about the rise in popularity of socialism in this country:

Opinion | What Are Capitalists Thinking?

Examples:

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them. Ask yourself: If you’re 28 like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York congressional candidate who describes herself as a democratic socialist, what have you seen during your sentient life?

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial’s Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

So, back now to our 28-year-old. She was born in 1990. She will probably remember, in the late ’90s, her parents feeling pretty good about things — median household income did go up under Bill Clinton more than they had under any president in a long time, even more than under Ronald Reagan. But ever since, the median income picture has been much spottier, hardly increasing at all in inflation-adjusted dollars over 18 long years. And those incomes at the top have shot to the heavens.

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism? The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

the meltdown itself for housing was gov created, not wall street. the gov demanded that people can get loans for homes w/o much pushback on little things, like income. proof of ability to pay. they bumped up how much overall loans they could get and if you told someone they didn't make enough money, you were racist.

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

 

[JoeMoma]

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?

I actually like this, it is certainly heavily slanted but I am not sure you can write pro [or con] about something without a natural slant, that said, I think I may actually be a socialist.

When I see and here liberals speak they just sound so dang uneducated, but the socialists come across as well read and articulate and come without all the "where's my money" non-sense.

But with "A.I." bearing down on us at breakneck speed I think we are going to need a very healthy dose of socialism to keep us in the game...of course all this could just be my age speaking.

Socialism might work if Watson is in charge.

 

[dave p]

I'm hoping we can stay on point here and not degenerate into yet another shallow, platitude-filled discussion on the evils of socialism.

Full disclosure up front: Writer Michael Tomasky is a hardcore left wing partisan ideologue. But in this piece, he actually offers some serious, reasonable, salient advice about the rise in popularity of socialism in this country:

Opinion | What Are Capitalists Thinking?

Examples:

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them. Ask yourself: If you’re 28 like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York congressional candidate who describes herself as a democratic socialist, what have you seen during your sentient life?

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial’s Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

So, back now to our 28-year-old. She was born in 1990. She will probably remember, in the late ’90s, her parents feeling pretty good about things — median household income did go up under Bill Clinton more than they had under any president in a long time, even more than under Ronald Reagan. But ever since, the median income picture has been much spottier, hardly increasing at all in inflation-adjusted dollars over 18 long years. And those incomes at the top have shot to the heavens.

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism? The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

Not fake news, just a tad slanted. There needs to be more included in this. These kids grew up feeling entitled, everyone gets a medal just for showing up, sporting events can end in ties, interview these kids and they want to call their own hours. There is a lot more to this than simply stating they watched some of their parents lose money. There are many in this group that actually like the system and excel at a faster rate because they get the concept. Socialism in this context is a cop out.

 

[SweetSue92]

I'm hoping we can stay on point here and not degenerate into yet another shallow, platitude-filled discussion on the evils of socialism.

Full disclosure up front: Writer Michael Tomasky is a hardcore left wing partisan ideologue. But in this piece, he actually offers some serious, reasonable, salient advice about the rise in popularity of socialism in this country:

Opinion | What Are Capitalists Thinking?

Examples:

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them. Ask yourself: If you’re 28 like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York congressional candidate who describes herself as a democratic socialist, what have you seen during your sentient life?

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial’s Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

So, back now to our 28-year-old. She was born in 1990. She will probably remember, in the late ’90s, her parents feeling pretty good about things — median household income did go up under Bill Clinton more than they had under any president in a long time, even more than under Ronald Reagan. But ever since, the median income picture has been much spottier, hardly increasing at all in inflation-adjusted dollars over 18 long years. And those incomes at the top have shot to the heavens.

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism? The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

Politics is about managing big things, like systems of human beings. NOTHING is going to be perfect. There are going to be downsides in everything, and most unfortunately, some of those downsides are going to really hurt some people.

But there's no contest between socialism and capitalism, and anyone with a degree in economics should know this, for pity's sake. I mean the above poster is saying, "Hey, this young socialist probably saw someone have a terrible reaction to a vaccine. Therefore, no one should ever get vaccines." Doesn't that very same argument applied to vaccinations actually drive liberals insane?

So apply some rational thinking like a 28 year old should, is what I would say to the socialist. Then again, if she has a degree in econ and can't figure this out.....

 

[MarcATL]

the meltdown itself for housing was gov created, not wall street. the gov demanded that people can get loans for homes w/o much pushback on little things, like income. proof of ability to pay. they bumped up how much overall loans they could get and if you told someone they didn't make enough money, you were racist.

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

What Administration did this occur under?

 

[Mac1958]

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

Well, they don't:

• Drop standards significantly below what is required of them
• Relax standards to the point at which DOGS were buying homes
• Knowingly put people in balloon mortgages they knew those people would lose
• Lobby (successfully) Greenspan, Bush and the government to refuse to regulate the shit securities
• Go after then-CFTC Chairperson Brooksley Born when she BEGGED Greenspan to regulate these shit securities, and their fucked up derivatives cousins, knowing what was coming
  
• Package shit loans into opaque MBS "securities" and sell them off within 12 hours, eliminating their risk
• Threaten to pull business from ratings agencies if these shit securities are not given AAA ratings
• Make the shit securities even shittier by adding fat fees that were absorbed into operating costs
  
• Sell and buy hundreds of billions of dollars of CDSs that had zero (0) dollars in reserve
• Create shit CDOs, which are three times as shitty as MBSs, and misrepresent them
• Bet against the very same shit securities they're selling to "clients"
• Actually create shit securities DESIGNED to fail and buy swaps on them

The Meltdown was about the above, not about legislation.
.

 

[jc456]

the meltdown itself for housing was gov created, not wall street. the gov demanded that people can get loans for homes w/o much pushback on little things, like income. proof of ability to pay. they bumped up how much overall loans they could get and if you told someone they didn't make enough money, you were racist.

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

What Administration did this occur under?

Dodd/ Frank

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

the meltdown itself for housing was gov created, not wall street. the gov demanded that people can get loans for homes w/o much pushback on little things, like income. proof of ability to pay. they bumped up how much overall loans they could get and if you told someone they didn't make enough money, you were racist.

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

What Administration did this occur under?

First Clinton, then Bush.

 

[MarcATL]

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

Well, they don't:

• Drop standards significantly below what is required of them
• Relax standards to the point at which DOGS were buying homes
• Knowingly put people in balloon mortgages they knew those people would lose
• Lobby Greenspan, Bush and the government to refuse to regulate the shit securities
  
• Package shit loans into opaque MBS "securities" and sell them off within 12 hours, eliminating their risk
• Threaten to pull business from ratings agencies if these shit securities are not given AAA ratings
• Make the shit securities even shittier by adding fat fees that were absorbed into operating costs
  
• Sell and buy hundreds of billions of dollars of CDSs that had zero (0) dollars in reserve
• Create shit CDOs, which are three times as shitty as MBSs, and misrepresent them
• Bet against the very same shit securities they're selling to "clients"
• Actually create shit securities DESIGNED to fail and buy swaps on them

The Meltdown was about the above, not about legislation.
.

Exactly!

And is called DEREGULATION, which occured under the Bush II Administration, and Republicans are chomping at the bits for more of the same, up to this very day.

 

[Mac1958]

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

Well, they don't:

• Drop standards significantly below what is required of them
• Relax standards to the point at which DOGS were buying homes
• Knowingly put people in balloon mortgages they knew those people would lose
• Lobby Greenspan, Bush and the government to refuse to regulate the shit securities
  
• Package shit loans into opaque MBS "securities" and sell them off within 12 hours, eliminating their risk
• Threaten to pull business from ratings agencies if these shit securities are not given AAA ratings
• Make the shit securities even shittier by adding fat fees that were absorbed into operating costs
  
• Sell and buy hundreds of billions of dollars of CDSs that had zero (0) dollars in reserve
• Create shit CDOs, which are three times as shitty as MBSs, and misrepresent them
• Bet against the very same shit securities they're selling to "clients"
• Actually create shit securities DESIGNED to fail and buy swaps on them

The Meltdown was about the above, not about legislation.
.

Exactly!

And is called DEREGULATION, which occured under the Bush II Administration, and Republicans are chomping at the bits for more of the same, up to this very day.

I would add the word "blind" before that word, but yeah.
.

 

[Some Guy]

Again, fundamental misunderstanding of and/or conflating of capitalism and corporatism. The government writing legislation that influences banks into giving out risky home loans in the interest of "everyone should own a home" and then the government bailing out the banks when that situation predictably implodes in on itself isn't capitalism. Not at all. That's some perverse mix of corporatism and cronyism.

This is the most telling statement from that piece:

And so it is here. As I noted recently in The Daily Beast, the kind of capitalism that has been practiced in this country over the last few decades has made socialism look far more appealing, especially to young people.

The blame is misplaced. While capitalism can encourage the situation we're currently in, it doesn't necessitate it. If government didn't have the power to endlessly regulate the markets, tax every aspect of our lives and require us to ask for permission to do anything... then big business would have no incentive to purchase government influence.

If you hate how big corporations and powerful rich businessmen influence government for their own benefit: then socialism/communism is that x 1,000,000. Socialism/Communism just cuts to the chase, takes all the rich peoples' money and acts tyrannically for the governments' own interests, and they do so with an extensive tapestry of "law enforcement" that hands out punishment for not complying with government's will.

 

[BrokeLoser]

I'm hoping we can stay on point here and not degenerate into yet another shallow, platitude-filled discussion on the evils of socialism.

Full disclosure up front: Writer Michael Tomasky is a hardcore left wing partisan ideologue. But in this piece, he actually offers some serious, reasonable, salient advice about the rise in popularity of socialism in this country:

Opinion | What Are Capitalists Thinking?

Examples:

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them. Ask yourself: If you’re 28 like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York congressional candidate who describes herself as a democratic socialist, what have you seen during your sentient life?

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial’s Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

So, back now to our 28-year-old. She was born in 1990. She will probably remember, in the late ’90s, her parents feeling pretty good about things — median household income did go up under Bill Clinton more than they had under any president in a long time, even more than under Ronald Reagan. But ever since, the median income picture has been much spottier, hardly increasing at all in inflation-adjusted dollars over 18 long years. And those incomes at the top have shot to the heavens.

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism? The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

I stopped reading right after this major crock of shit.
“You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves.”

Grown ass adults signed the bottom of every single loan document...they accepted FULL responsibility and acknowledged they could adhere to the guidelines of the loan. People that try to sell that whole “I was victimized by the banks” bullshit are unaccountable fucking bitches....FUCK THEM!
Stop trying to blame the other guy or ‘the system’ for your retarded decision making...YOU FUCKED YOUR RETARDED SELF...PERIOD!

 

[Mac1958]

I stopped reading right after this major crock of shit. “You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves.”
Grown ass adults signed the bottom of every single loan document...they accepted FULL responsibility and acknowledged they could adhere to the guidelines of the loan. People that try to sell that whole “I was victimized by the banks” bullshit are unaccountable fucking bitches....FUCK THEM!
Stop trying to blame the other guy or ‘the system’ for your retarded decision making...YOU FUCKED YOUR RETARDED SELF...PERIOD!

Ah. Please see post 9, which provides an actual, non-Talk Radio account of what happened. From someone in the industry, who lived through it 24/7.
.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

the meltdown itself for housing was gov created, not wall street. the gov demanded that people can get loans for homes w/o much pushback on little things, like income. proof of ability to pay. they bumped up how much overall loans they could get and if you told someone they didn't make enough money, you were racist.

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

What Administration did this occur under?

Under clinton and bush.

 

[Correll]

I'm hoping we can stay on point here and not degenerate into yet another shallow, platitude-filled discussion on the evils of socialism.

Full disclosure up front: Writer Michael Tomasky is a hardcore left wing partisan ideologue. But in this piece, he actually offers some serious, reasonable, salient advice about the rise in popularity of socialism in this country:

Opinion | What Are Capitalists Thinking?

Examples:

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them. Ask yourself: If you’re 28 like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York congressional candidate who describes herself as a democratic socialist, what have you seen during your sentient life?

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial’s Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

So, back now to our 28-year-old. She was born in 1990. She will probably remember, in the late ’90s, her parents feeling pretty good about things — median household income did go up under Bill Clinton more than they had under any president in a long time, even more than under Ronald Reagan. But ever since, the median income picture has been much spottier, hardly increasing at all in inflation-adjusted dollars over 18 long years. And those incomes at the top have shot to the heavens.

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism? The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

We are trying. With Trump.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I'm hoping we can stay on point here and not degenerate into yet another shallow, platitude-filled discussion on the evils of socialism.

Full disclosure up front: Writer Michael Tomasky is a hardcore left wing partisan ideologue. But in this piece, he actually offers some serious, reasonable, salient advice about the rise in popularity of socialism in this country:

Opinion | What Are Capitalists Thinking?

Examples:

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them. Ask yourself: If you’re 28 like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York congressional candidate who describes herself as a democratic socialist, what have you seen during your sentient life?

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial’s Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

So, back now to our 28-year-old. She was born in 1990. She will probably remember, in the late ’90s, her parents feeling pretty good about things — median household income did go up under Bill Clinton more than they had under any president in a long time, even more than under Ronald Reagan. But ever since, the median income picture has been much spottier, hardly increasing at all in inflation-adjusted dollars over 18 long years. And those incomes at the top have shot to the heavens.

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism? The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

What we have today, actually for the past 40 years, is not Capitalism. And certainly not a free market.
We have Corporatism. It is not capitalism, uses some of the same principles of course but is a wholly different economic method.

 

[iceberg]

the meltdown itself for housing was gov created, not wall street. the gov demanded that people can get loans for homes w/o much pushback on little things, like income. proof of ability to pay. they bumped up how much overall loans they could get and if you told someone they didn't make enough money, you were racist.

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

What Administration did this occur under?

as you've seen - democrat and then followed by a repub.

the left loves to shame people into getting their way. "you don't want to do what i want to do - you're a horrible human being!!!" and that gets so very old. but the gov mandated stupid loans a "capitalist" would never have done. when we stop doing shit like that many problems will stop. i don't care who you are, if you can't afford what you want, go earn it some other way.