Conservative v. Liberal: Got to stop this

So I noticed people take sides along ideological lines, and are not so compromising about it. This simply put has to stop. Unless the goal of some is to see most not benefit from living in civilization.

Essentially this liberal vs. conservative thing is and always has been crap fed to us to keep us in the dark about what really is going on. We are being treated as mushrooms. I mean not the good sauteed ones either.

I really want to ask this, but am afraid that maybe it will fall on deaf ears. When will we stop this and wake up?

I understand part of this has to do with people not able to understand one another, but if this is the case we must find a way for that to be possible.

This Conservative v. Liberal thing is simply a distraction.
I am sure I am not the first and not the last person who will be saying.

You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.
 
So I noticed people take sides along ideological lines, and are not so compromising about it. This simply put has to stop. Unless the goal of some is to see most not benefit from living in civilization.

Essentially this liberal vs. conservative thing is and always has been crap fed to us to keep us in the dark about what really is going on. We are being treated as mushrooms. I mean not the good sauteed ones either.

I really want to ask this, but am afraid that maybe it will fall on deaf ears. When will we stop this and wake up?

I understand part of this has to do with people not able to understand one another, but if this is the case we must find a way for that to be possible.

This Conservative v. Liberal thing is simply a distraction.
I am sure I am not the first and not the last person who will be saying.
As long as there are fools that believe they can convert the country to their beliefs and control government election after election, the war will continue with each side getting their crack and undoing the work the opposition. Neither side will win, but America will lose.
 
So I noticed people take sides along ideological lines, and are not so compromising about it. This simply put has to stop. Unless the goal of some is to see most not benefit from living in civilization.

Essentially this liberal vs. conservative thing is and always has been crap fed to us to keep us in the dark about what really is going on. We are being treated as mushrooms. I mean not the good sauteed ones either.

I really want to ask this, but am afraid that maybe it will fall on deaf ears. When will we stop this and wake up?

I understand part of this has to do with people not able to understand one another, but if this is the case we must find a way for that to be possible.

This Conservative v. Liberal thing is simply a distraction.
I am sure I am not the first and not the last person who will be saying.

You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

<SNIP> <SNIP><SNIP>
Simply not true: in the next election check this out for yourself. In local elections, contributions are published in the local newspapers; usually not only the amount received as of the published date, but the number of contributors. That information, for now, is the nearest we get to transparency. When one divides the dollars by the contributors we arrive at the amount of the AVERAGE CONTRIBUTION. When that calculation is made it is always clear that the average size of contributions to Ds is magnitudes larger that to Rs.

Why is that? Do the D party members not give except for the wealthiest among them? Or is it that large corporate, unions, and organizations tend to support the party's candidates rather than ordinary party members? That fact supports the truth that the R party tends to be supported by the grassroots, more than large organizations. Almost always the number (quantity of) contributions to Republicans is larger and the average size is smaller. The opposite is true with the Democrats where the number (quantity of) of contributions to them is smaller and average size is larger.

The Rs have many times asked for complete transparency of all political contributions on the internet. Were the voting public to see huge contributions to any candidate's PAC, they might very well reject that candidate for potentially being in the pocket of the contributor. But this seems never to be seen as a solution, and it gets shelved.

I think that more transparency that reveals those patterns - without having to uncover it by doing obscure calculations - would have a more positive result for Republicans than Democrats.


And it is becoming more and more well known that it is the Ds who are in the pocket of Wall Street; Gordon Gecko is a Liberal.

When it comes to contributions from corporations, the Rs get only the scraps from the table, and why should they refuse those scraps, since they support business as a whole and business is the only part of the economy which can build up the economy and create jobs.
 
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So I noticed people take sides along ideological lines, and are not so compromising about it. This simply put has to stop. Unless the goal of some is to see most not benefit from living in civilization.

Essentially this liberal vs. conservative thing is and always has been crap fed to us to keep us in the dark about what really is going on. We are being treated as mushrooms. I mean not the good sauteed ones either.

I really want to ask this, but am afraid that maybe it will fall on deaf ears. When will we stop this and wake up?

I understand part of this has to do with people not able to understand one another, but if this is the case we must find a way for that to be possible.

This Conservative v. Liberal thing is simply a distraction.
I am sure I am not the first and not the last person who will be saying.

The opening conveys a naïve sentiment that political discourse was once a civil affair, that the present polarized political environment is something new. In reality nothing has changed, and the national debate on the solutions to problems facing this country have always been this hostile and divided.

The implication that some unseen force is perpetuating political theatrics to distract the public, while making no actual mention as to what this conspiratorial entity is attempting to distract us from, leaves me wondering if there is any real point to this thread.

This idea that mediocrity&#8212;or being politically moderate--is somehow a virtue is moronic. It is this simplistic, uninformed emotional response that is precisely the goal of the left&#8217;s feigned bi-partisanship: to get the other side to abandon their passion and adopt policies more in line with theirs.
 
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So I noticed people take sides along ideological lines, and are not so compromising about it. This simply put has to stop. Unless the goal of some is to see most not benefit from living in civilization.

Essentially this liberal vs. conservative thing is and always has been crap fed to us to keep us in the dark about what really is going on. We are being treated as mushrooms. I mean not the good sauteed ones either.

I really want to ask this, but am afraid that maybe it will fall on deaf ears. When will we stop this and wake up?

I understand part of this has to do with people not able to understand one another, but if this is the case we must find a way for that to be possible.

This Conservative v. Liberal thing is simply a distraction.
I am sure I am not the first and not the last person who will be saying.

Why?

Should the people who opposed slavery simply have shut up and let it continue in order to prove that they know how to get along in civilization? You are certainly not the firs, and will probably not be the last, person to fall into the trap that ideology is a bad thing. Don't feel bad about it.
 
So I noticed people take sides along ideological lines, and are not so compromising about it. This simply put has to stop. Unless the goal of some is to see most not benefit from living in civilization.

Essentially this liberal vs. conservative thing is and always has been crap fed to us to keep us in the dark about what really is going on. We are being treated as mushrooms. I mean not the good sauteed ones either.

I really want to ask this, but am afraid that maybe it will fall on deaf ears. When will we stop this and wake up?

I understand part of this has to do with people not able to understand one another, but if this is the case we must find a way for that to be possible.

This Conservative v. Liberal thing is simply a distraction.
I am sure I am not the first and not the last person who will be saying.

You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.

You of course meant to say that Democrats pretend they give a shit about minorities, but really they are just using them.
 
The link below is to an article by Rep Jim Cooper in the Boston Review about how things have gone downhill with respect to cooperation in Congress. He blames the Repubs mostly, or appears to, beginning with Gingrich in the mid 90s. It's a good read.

My guess is, it'll take a major event, like another seriou recession or depression to convince the public and as a result the pols that some cooperation and compromise is neessary. Until that happens the status quo will probably remain in effect.


Boston Review &mdash; U.S. Rep. Jim Cooper: Fixing Congress

PS: anybody know of a good book on the subject of changing attitudes in Congress?

Good quality compromises are not hard to come by. All it takes is a majority of somewhat moderates on both sides to take control. Unfortunately, the fringe on the left and right are the controlling factor at the moment. Until people realize this, nothing will change. I switched from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party for this reason. There is no room for anyone on the center in the Republican Party anymore.
 
You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.

You are so blinded by partisanship that facts are most likely irrelevant.

First of all, your perpetuation of some stereotypical Gordon Gecko-like Republican party. In reality the Democratic party receives much more money from Wall Street than Republicans.

Let's compare Obama's top five donors with McCain's during the 2008 presidential campaign.

First, Obama:

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132


Now McCain:

Merrill Lynch $373,595
Citigroup Inc $322,051
Morgan Stanley $273,452
Goldman Sachs $230,095
JPMorgan Chase & Co $228,107


Obama is setting the president of billion-dollar presidential campaign, deriving the majority of those funds from large corporations, contributions that have thus far dwarfed any given to a Republican candidates. Contrast that to someone like Ron Paul whose majority, over 80%, of contributions are under $100.

You are so misguided and naive to believe that your beloved Democratic party is untouched by the influences of corporate America, which is insightful to the extend of your bias.
 
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You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.

You are so blinded by partisanship that facts are most likely irrelevant.

First of all, your perpetuation of some stereotypical Gordon Gecko-like Republican party. In reality the Democratic party receives much more money from Wall Street than Republicans.

Let's compare Obama's top five donors with McCain's during the 2008 presidential campaign.

First, Obama:

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132

Now McCain:

Merrill Lynch $373,595
Citigroup Inc $322,051
Morgan Stanley $273,452
Goldman Sachs $230,095
JPMorgan Chase & Co $228,107

Obama is setting the president of billion-dollar presidential campaign, deriving the majority of those funds from large corporations. Contrast that to someone like Ron Paul whose majority, over 80% of contributions are under $100.

You are so misguided and naive to believe that your beloved Democratic party is untouched by the influences of corporate America, which is insightful to the extend of your bias.

Oh, you missed it the other night. I presented the EXACT same evidence to RDean and his response was "well you can't count janitors and secretaries who work for those companies and gave to Obama as big business money" :rofl: that guy needs a serious adjustment.
 
So I noticed people take sides along ideological lines, and are not so compromising about it. This simply put has to stop. Unless the goal of some is to see most not benefit from living in civilization.

Essentially this liberal vs. conservative thing is and always has been crap fed to us to keep us in the dark about what really is going on. We are being treated as mushrooms. I mean not the good sauteed ones either.

I really want to ask this, but am afraid that maybe it will fall on deaf ears. When will we stop this and wake up?

I understand part of this has to do with people not able to understand one another, but if this is the case we must find a way for that to be possible.

This Conservative v. Liberal thing is simply a distraction.
I am sure I am not the first and not the last person who will be saying.

You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.

What is the coalitions party budget plan?

Plan to deal with the looming Medicare meltdown?

The deficit?
 
You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.

You are so blinded by partisanship that facts are most likely irrelevant.

First of all, your perpetuation of some stereotypical Gordon Gecko-like Republican party. In reality the Democratic party receives much more money from Wall Street than Republicans.

Let's compare Obama's top five donors with McCain's during the 2008 presidential campaign.

First, Obama:

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132

Now McCain:

Merrill Lynch $373,595
Citigroup Inc $322,051
Morgan Stanley $273,452
Goldman Sachs $230,095
JPMorgan Chase & Co $228,107

Obama is setting the president of billion-dollar presidential campaign, deriving the majority of those funds from large corporations. Contrast that to someone like Ron Paul whose majority, over 80% of contributions are under $100.

You are so misguided and naive to believe that your beloved Democratic party is untouched by the influences of corporate America, which is insightful to the extend of your bias.

Oh, you missed it the other night. I presented the EXACT same evidence to RDean and his response was "well you can't count janitors and secretaries who work for those companies and gave to Obama as big business money" :rofl: that guy needs a serious adjustment.

Janitors and secretaries always give the equivalent of 3 months salary to presidential campaigns.
 
You are so blinded by partisanship that facts are most likely irrelevant.

First of all, your perpetuation of some stereotypical Gordon Gecko-like Republican party. In reality the Democratic party receives much more money from Wall Street than Republicans.

Let's compare Obama's top five donors with McCain's during the 2008 presidential campaign.

First, Obama:

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132

Now McCain:

Merrill Lynch $373,595
Citigroup Inc $322,051
Morgan Stanley $273,452
Goldman Sachs $230,095
JPMorgan Chase & Co $228,107

Obama is setting the president of billion-dollar presidential campaign, deriving the majority of those funds from large corporations. Contrast that to someone like Ron Paul whose majority, over 80% of contributions are under $100.

You are so misguided and naive to believe that your beloved Democratic party is untouched by the influences of corporate America, which is insightful to the extend of your bias.

Oh, you missed it the other night. I presented the EXACT same evidence to RDean and his response was "well you can't count janitors and secretaries who work for those companies and gave to Obama as big business money" :rofl: that guy needs a serious adjustment.

Janitors and secretaries always give the equivalent of 3 months salary to presidential campaigns.

You owe me a Dr Pepper and a screen cleaning you sumbitch :rofl:
 
You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.

You are so blinded by partisanship that facts are most likely irrelevant.

First of all, your perpetuation of some stereotypical Gordon Gecko-like Republican party. In reality the Democratic party receives much more money from Wall Street than Republicans.

Let's compare Obama's top five donors with McCain's during the 2008 presidential campaign.

First, Obama:

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132


Now McCain:

Merrill Lynch $373,595
Citigroup Inc $322,051
Morgan Stanley $273,452
Goldman Sachs $230,095
JPMorgan Chase & Co $228,107


Obama is setting the president of billion-dollar presidential campaign, deriving the majority of those funds from large corporations, contributions that have thus far dwarfed any given to a Republican candidates. Contrast that to someone like Ron Paul whose majority, over 80%, of contributions are under $100.

You are so misguided and naive to believe that your beloved Democratic party is untouched by the influences of corporate America, which is insightful to the extend of your bias.
In the Fall of 2008 as the full extent of our Great Recession was becoming apparent to everyone still breathing, the last thing the richest 1% of Americans wanted was another Republican in the White House, and they made their campaign donations accordingly.

Republicans AND Democrats take most of their campaign funds from the richest 1% of the population. The same one percent that has seen their share of returns to wealth (rents, interest, dividends and capital gains) double in less than a generation.

"Choosing" between the two major parties will not change anything about how costs are socialized and profits are privatized in this country. All it does is confirm Einstein's theory of insanity.
 
So I noticed people take sides along ideological lines, and are not so compromising about it. This simply put has to stop. Unless the goal of some is to see most not benefit from living in civilization.

Essentially this liberal vs. conservative thing is and always has been crap fed to us to keep us in the dark about what really is going on. We are being treated as mushrooms. I mean not the good sauteed ones either.

I really want to ask this, but am afraid that maybe it will fall on deaf ears. When will we stop this and wake up?

I understand part of this has to do with people not able to understand one another, but if this is the case we must find a way for that to be possible.

This Conservative v. Liberal thing is simply a distraction.
I am sure I am not the first and not the last person who will be saying.

You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.

You of course meant to say that Democrats pretend they give a shit about minorities, but really they are just using them.

Who is "using them", Teabrain? The Democratic Party is made up of minorities.
 
You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.

You are so blinded by partisanship that facts are most likely irrelevant.

First of all, your perpetuation of some stereotypical Gordon Gecko-like Republican party. In reality the Democratic party receives much more money from Wall Street than Republicans.

Let's compare Obama's top five donors with McCain's during the 2008 presidential campaign.

First, Obama:

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132


Now McCain:

Merrill Lynch $373,595
Citigroup Inc $322,051
Morgan Stanley $273,452
Goldman Sachs $230,095
JPMorgan Chase & Co $228,107


Obama is setting the president of billion-dollar presidential campaign, deriving the majority of those funds from large corporations, contributions that have thus far dwarfed any given to a Republican candidates. Contrast that to someone like Ron Paul whose majority, over 80%, of contributions are under $100.

You are so misguided and naive to believe that your beloved Democratic party is untouched by the influences of corporate America, which is insightful to the extend of your bias.

You need to do a little more investigation. This is what I was talking about Republicans muddying the waters. The money that went to Obama came from the people that are employed by those companies. The money that went to McCain came from the companies themselves. Try to reason out the difference.
 
Always an interesting question. I don't think it fair to label Dem v Repub one or the other as there used to be many good republicans who believed in America's values. Many democrats too have moved away from our core principles. Big money has corrupted both parties with republicans being just a bit more cozy with cash - or Bush's people. Was any nation ever destroyed by money alone? America may be the first?

But ideology debates are more complicated as they usually include parts of both sides. True liberals and conservatives are rare things and probably undefinable. Having existed for some time, I have noted that conservatism in America follows closely Hirschman's reactionary model. Every change is met with gloom and doom doesn't matter what it is.

For those interested Oxford's shorts are usually excellent, and Hirschman's book is one of the best out there on topic.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Ideology-Very-Short-Introduction-Introductions/dp/019280281X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: Ideology: A Very Short Introduction (Very Short Introductions) (9780192802811): Michael Freeden: Books[/ame]


"Hirschman draws his examples from three successive waves of reactive thought, that arose in response to the liberal ideas of the French Revolution and the Declaration of the Rights of Man, to democratization and the drive toward universal suffrage in the nineteenth century, and to the welfare state in our own century. In each case he identifies three principal arguments invariably used - the theses of perversity, futility, and jeopardy. He illustrates these propositions by citing writers across the centuries from Alexis de Tocqueville to George Stigler, Herbert Spencer to Jay Forrester, Edmund Burke to Charles Murray." From backcover Harvard University Press
 
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You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.

You are so blinded by partisanship that facts are most likely irrelevant.

First of all, your perpetuation of some stereotypical Gordon Gecko-like Republican party. In reality the Democratic party receives much more money from Wall Street than Republicans.

Let's compare Obama's top five donors with McCain's during the 2008 presidential campaign.

First, Obama:

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132


Now McCain:

Merrill Lynch $373,595
Citigroup Inc $322,051
Morgan Stanley $273,452
Goldman Sachs $230,095
JPMorgan Chase & Co $228,107


Obama is setting the president of billion-dollar presidential campaign, deriving the majority of those funds from large corporations, contributions that have thus far dwarfed any given to a Republican candidates. Contrast that to someone like Ron Paul whose majority, over 80%, of contributions are under $100.

You are so misguided and naive to believe that your beloved Democratic party is untouched by the influences of corporate America, which is insightful to the extend of your bias.

Political contributions are a funny thing. You can usually get a pretty good idea who is going to win an upcoming election based on which candidate receives the largest contributions. And these contributions have nothing to do with whom a company or group may side with politically. It's just a way to make certain those elected to office know who they owe. I would be willing to bet money that the vast majority of those donations come in once one candidate is well ahead in the polls. In the case of very tight races, those donations will be about the same to each candidate.
 
You are so wrong. Democrats are a coalition party. Republicans work very hard to "muddy the waters", but the truth is the majority of Democrats get their money from regular Americans. The Republicans are bought and paid for by large corporations.

Now Republicans can rant and whine all they want that this is not true, but legislation presented by the two sides tell the real truth.

Democrats want to regulate Wall Street. Stop policies, such as "speculation" and the terrible practice behind "derivatives", Republicans want to do the opposite. Those can't be denied.

Democrats want to reign in insurance companies who are raping the middle class. Republicans want to make it easier for them to rape.

Democrats want to stop subsidies and tax breaks for big companies, Republicans want to do the opposite. Anyone who has watched the news or read a paper in the last 2 months knows this to be true.

The Conservative/Republican Supreme Court made it possible for companies with offices here in the US to spend unlimited money in our presidential elections. Anyone who says they spend more than a small percentage on Democrats is lying.

This is how Republicans muddy the water. Employees bundle money from fundraising and when they give it to Democratic candidates, they say it's from the company they work at. Every company does this. But the money is coming from the people that work there NOT the company itself. Republicans, even though they know the difference, even though it's something a 10 year old can understand, they insist there is no difference.

What the Republican leadership has accomplished is to convince their base the country would be better off under the control of companies with a Profit Motive rather than a government made up of our neighbors we vote into office.

The absolute worst lie is when they say the two parties, one, 90% white, mostly uneducated and mostly Christian is exactly the same as a party made up of everyone else. That brings the Democrats down to the level of the Right Wing Conservative Confederate Republican Party of Teabirthers. Not a good comparison.

You are so blinded by partisanship that facts are most likely irrelevant.

First of all, your perpetuation of some stereotypical Gordon Gecko-like Republican party. In reality the Democratic party receives much more money from Wall Street than Republicans.

Let's compare Obama's top five donors with McCain's during the 2008 presidential campaign.

First, Obama:

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132


Now McCain:

Merrill Lynch $373,595
Citigroup Inc $322,051
Morgan Stanley $273,452
Goldman Sachs $230,095
JPMorgan Chase & Co $228,107


Obama is setting the president of billion-dollar presidential campaign, deriving the majority of those funds from large corporations, contributions that have thus far dwarfed any given to a Republican candidates. Contrast that to someone like Ron Paul whose majority, over 80%, of contributions are under $100.

You are so misguided and naive to believe that your beloved Democratic party is untouched by the influences of corporate America, which is insightful to the extend of your bias.

You need to do a little more investigation. This is what I was talking about Republicans muddying the waters. The money that went to Obama came from the people that are employed by those companies. The money that went to McCain came from the companies themselves. Try to reason out the difference.
Document that assertion please
 
People don't realize the whole conservative vs liberal thing is a huge distraction. The two political parties put the citizens against one another-because if the citizens actually got together-all of them would be out of office right away. Why do you think when there's a 3rd party, or strong independent in politics-the Republicans and Democrats both work at nipping them in the butt right away?

Neither the Democrats or Republicans care about you, me, or any of us on here. They both care about one thing: power (and keeping it). That's all. It's why all politicians (there are a few exceptions), always seem to be in election mode, and looking to score political points-rather than govern in accordance of their constituents.
 

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