Okay, so your wikipedia info shows a 29% independent vote. That still isn't the over 40% that Guns claimed it to be. My original point was that he can't just make shit up to fit his argument.
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Conservative 3rd Party in 2012 - Gingrich Warns
- Thread starter American Horse
- Start date
Okay, so your wikipedia info shows a 29% independent vote. That still isn't the over 40% that Guns claimed it to be. My original point was that he can't just make shit up to fit his argument.
A conservative third-party is a good way to keep the Democrats in power for many, many years.
That's not a good thing.
That's not a good thing.
Okay lets get something straight what happens electorally between now and 2010 is anyone's guess if this economy contiues to be sluggish or in a state of near collapse, There may be a hell of lot more people thinking, The Reps broke it the Dems can't fix it who else is available?
Annie
Diamond Member
- Nov 22, 2003
- 50,848
- 4,827
- 1,790
Okay lets get something straight what happens electorally between now and 2010 is anyone's guess if this economy contiues to be sluggish or in a state of near collapse, There may be a hell of lot more people thinking, The Reps broke it the Dems can't fix it who else is available?
If the conservatives don't reform themselves, heck even if they pretend to, many want real change, not led by extremists on social issues. I've hope that the tea parties might well serve as conduit for fiscal conservatives, independents, and moderate democrats. There's bound to be leaders within that movement, which so far does not appear to be concerned with issues beyond government overspending.
Gingrich points out that the Republicans, and the Republican Administration of President Bush are also to blame for the huge increase in Federal spending, while he attacked President Barack Obamas monstrosity of a budget"
If the Republicans cant break out of being the right wing party of big government, then I think you would see a third party movement in 2012, Gingrich said during an address to students at the College of the Ozarks in Missouri.
Remember, everything Obamas doing, Bush started last year, he said.
If youre going to talk about big spending, the mistakes of the Bush administration last year are fully as bad as the mistakes of Obamas first two, three months.
In an article today, in NewsMax.com, Gingrich predicted that fed up Americans will instigate a nationwide rebellion at the polls, and said the increased government spending under Obama is literally irrational.
It seems that Newt believes that the Republican Party doesn't have a chance to recover before 2012 in its current fashion, and the current mood of revolt against these policies (all of them) will need a home other than in the Republican or Democrat Party.
It is in times of huge unresolved issues that new parties are born. The last successful new party was the Republican Party which replaced the Whig Party in 1854. Those Issues were about slavery and it's extension into the new states, as well as modernization.
The question might be, are the present unresolved issues of sufficient attention grabbing consequence as they were in 1854, and if they are won't a figure (like Lincoln) be needed to project that party to prominence?
Who would that person be? Will we be given any clue who that person may be by forthcoming character assassinations and hatchet jobs by the existing powers that be? If that were the case, then Newt has already suffered those attempts, and might be one of the most viable candidates, with some strong lieutenant; someone who will emerge in the interim. Those candidates will be given hatchet jobs by the MSM, Etal too, beginning now.
Here's Newt on the Financial Bail-Out back during the election, a long time ago but, except for the reference to McCain, it's as pertinent today as then. Remember though, here he's referring to the Bush Administration, not the Obama Adminstration.
This is possible the most intelligent thing I think I've ever read from this guy.
Americans, both Demcorts and Republicans are quite reasonably pissed.
Those of us who can put aside our own partisan leanings (and that's a LOT of us from BOTH parties) are sick to death of our government spending astromical sums of money that we are going to have to pay back.
This bailout, a bailout which benefits precisely the peo0ple who screwed this economy for their own selfish interests, is proof positive that neither party is in control of much of anything.
Our government handed the keys to the economy to people who don't give a shit about America, folks.
I am not kidding when I say I think we ought to be hanging some of these guys.
They knew perfectly well what they were doing and what the final outcome of their gambling would be.
They betrayed their stockholders, their customers, the nation and the American people.
They did more damage to this nation that Obama bin Laden did.
They are fucking traitors, not traders, traitors.
Hang the bastards. Try them for crimes against the economy, strip them of every cent they have and then hang them in front of the Federal reserve banks in each region in this nation.
England ought to be doing the same thing to their guilty parties and every other nation where this problem manifested.
These people are parsites who ought to be removed from the host forever.
Xenophon
Gone and forgotten
Tell ol eye of newt to shut up, he is so 20th century.
A conservative third-party is a good way to keep the Democrats in power for many, many years.
That's not a good thing.
Whether it is a good thing depends on your perspective, but yeah a new uber-conservative party would be the Dem's wet dream.
Annie
Diamond Member
- Nov 22, 2003
- 50,848
- 4,827
- 1,790
A conservative third-party is a good way to keep the Democrats in power for many, many years.
That's not a good thing.
Whether it is a good thing depends on your perspective, but yeah a new uber-conservative party would be the Dem's wet dream.
Which is what is being warned against.
AnnECUCherry
Member
- Apr 3, 2009
- 302
- 16
- 16
Simply NOT true. Over 40 percent of voters are not members of either party.
Actually that number is more like 20 percent. But hey its your story. You tell it.
Ya cause 30 percent republican and 35 percent dem leaves 20 right? And most of the new dems will drop most likely.
GySgt, from where do you get your notion that "most of the new dems will drop most likely"?
I see that we're from the same state -- maybe even from the same congressional district, if you're retired from the Marine Corps.
If you are, then you know just how well Joe McLaughlin did against Walter B. Jones, Jr. -- as in Not Very.
I know that Joe is still trying -- I see his big display ads in the Jacksonville Daily News when I go back to visit -- but are you not aware that Obama's former campaign volunteers are still working as Organizing for America?
We're ensuring that "most of the new dems" won't drop.
And that NC won't revert to red!
I'd like to see a nationalist party formed.
One which starts our with the goal that America and AMERICANS come first.
This party would not be run by ideaogues, but one based on pragmatism.
'It would start out asking itself about every bill . every law and every policy:
One which starts our with the goal that America and AMERICANS come first.
This party would not be run by ideaogues, but one based on pragmatism.
'It would start out asking itself about every bill . every law and every policy:
Is this good for AMERICA?
Personally I don't think either party starts out by asking itself that question.
I believe far too many in both parties start out by asking themselves:
Is this good for the party, and even more important, how can turn this into campaign contributions for ME?
Last edited:
Annie
Diamond Member
- Nov 22, 2003
- 50,848
- 4,827
- 1,790
Organizing for America is off to a flying start:
Organizing For America Takes First Action For Obama Agenda
Uh huh, just like this:
or this Congress isn't feeling much heat from Obama's 'army' | McClatchy
Organizing For America Takes First Action For Obama Agenda
...Organizing for America, the campaign apparatus left over from Barack Obama's presidential run, sent out its first call to action on Friday in support of the president's agenda.
The organization, which is now housed within the Democratic National Committee, emailed everyone who has hosted a house party for the president, encouraging them to do the same in support of the White House-backed economic recovery package....
Uh huh, just like this:
DNC lies shamelessly about support for Obamas horrific budget
POSTED AT 4:44 PM ON APRIL 3, 2009 BY ALLAHPUNDIT
SEND TO A FRIEND | SHARE ON FACEBOOK | REGULAR VIEW
So epic was their failure in drumming up excitement among the grassroots for The Ones $3.6 trillion monstrosity that they decided simply to exaggerate the number of pledges with a little rhetorical sleight of hand. Which, to be fair, is far more efficient than the way ACORN typically does this sort of thing, by having the same guy sign up 40 times.
Anyway, dont think of this as lying. Think of it as creating or saving an extra 400,000 pledges.
At Democratic National Committee headquarters yesterday morning, party workers were loading minivans with Xerox boxes, each addressed to a different congressional office. It was a classic campaign canvassing operation except that the next election is 19 months away. Supporters of President Obamas Budget to Hand Deliver 642,000 Pledges Gathered from Around the Country to Capitol Hill, announced the Democrats news release.....
CNN and the Huffington Post dutifully reported the DNCs claim of 642,000 pledges. Network cameras and the BBC showed up to film the operation. We had one of the big printers downstairs smoking last night, party spokesman Brad Woodhouse said.
In fact, the canvassing of Obamas vaunted e-mail list of 13 million people resulted in just 114,000 pledges a response rate of less than 1 percent. Workers gathered 100,000 more from street canvassing. The DNC got to 642,000 by making three photocopies of each pledge so that each signers senators and representative could get one.
or this Congress isn't feeling much heat from Obama's 'army' | McClatchy
Posted on Tue, Mar. 24, 2009
Congress isn't feeling much heat from Obama's 'army'
David Lightman and William Douglas | McClatchy Newspapers
last updated: March 23, 2009 08:25:14 PM
WASHINGTON President Barack Obama's army of canvassers fanned out across the nation over the weekend to drum up support for his $3.55 trillion budget, but they had no noticeable impact on members of Congress, who on Monday said they were largely unaware of the effort.
"News to me," said Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas, a House Budget Committee member, of the canvassing. Later, his staff said that his office had heard from about 100 voters.
The president's lieutenants tried to open a new front in the "Obama revolution," the grassroots mobilization that propelled the once little-known Illinois senator to the White House last year. David Plouffe, who ran Obama's campaign, now runs "Organizing for America" out of the Democratic National Committee. It uses the same Web-based tactics that won the presidency to mobilize public opinion behind Obama's initiatives in a bid to redefine "business as usual" in Washington.
"The budget that passes Congress has the potential to take our country in a truly new direction the kind of change we all worked so hard for," Plouffe said in an e-mail alert to Obama followers last week. He asked them to rally people in their hometowns behind Obama's budget.....
- Thread starter
- #32
I know Liberals and I know Democrats, as well as Republicans. While the self avowed Liberals I know here in a Liberal stronghold, of Bloomington, Indiana, would never switch, many of the Democrats I know are more conservative than anything I read about in the MSM. They'd vote to protect what they have if they were convinced their values, their real values, and their livelihood were threatened.Gingrich points out that the Republicans, and the Republican Administration of President Bush are also to blame for the huge increase in Federal spending, while he attacked President Barack Obama’s “monstrosity of a budget"
would only work if the third party took votes away from the democrats. I don't see that happening.
Here's a question...how many folks here talk to people across party lines?
A conservative third-party is a good way to keep the Democrats in power for many, many years.
That's not a good thing.
Whether it is a good thing depends on your perspective, but yeah a new uber-conservative party would be the Dem's wet dream.
Which is what is being warned against.
With a "winner take all" electoral system, a third party cannot permanently sustain because there is not viable why for it to elect representatives proporational to its supporters. At best one of the existing parties would do something so unpopular that it implodes and a new party takes its place. But that doesn't happy very often.
The only way third parties can have a place is with a proportional representative system. Which for the House of Reps is something I've thought should be considered.
Annie
Diamond Member
- Nov 22, 2003
- 50,848
- 4,827
- 1,790
Whether it is a good thing depends on your perspective, but yeah a new uber-conservative party would be the Dem's wet dream.
Which is what is being warned against.
With a "winner take all" electoral system, a third party cannot permanently sustain because there is not viable why for it to elect representatives proporational to its supporters. At best one of the existing parties would do something so unpopular that it implodes and a new party takes its place. But that doesn't happy very often.
The only way third parties can have a place is with a proportional representative system. Which for the House of Reps is something I've thought should be considered.
How many cycles was it for the Republican Party to nominate a winner? The Republican Party may be replaced.
- Thread starter
- #35
Whether it is a good thing depends on your perspective, but yeah a new uber-conservative party would be the Dem's wet dream.
Which is what is being warned against.
With a "winner take all" electoral system, a third party cannot permanently sustain because there is not viable why for it to elect representatives proporational to its supporters. At best one of the existing parties would do something so unpopular that it implodes and a new party takes its place. But that doesn't happy very often.
The only way third parties can have a place is with a proportional representative system. Which for the House of Reps is something I've thought should be considered.
We have the same political system (Electoral College) we had in place in 1860. The Republican Party won the next 5 elections if you discount Andrew Johnson who became president when Lincoln was assassinated, and then was elected one time like Lyndon Johnson was in 1964.
xsited1
Agent P
Conservative 3rd Party in 2012 - Gingrich Warns
That will most likely happen if the Republicans don't change. When George H.W. Bush was in office, Ross Perot was able to get 10% of the vote. We might see something similar in 2012. I doubt this new 3rd party has any chance of winning in 2012, but they could get enough of the vote to either force the GOP to change or get enough converts to become viable in 2016. I fear, though, that it might be too late for the country by then.
AnnECUCherry
Member
- Apr 3, 2009
- 302
- 16
- 16
Organizing for America is off to a flying start:
Organizing For America Takes First Action For Obama Agenda
...Organizing for America, the campaign apparatus left over from Barack Obama's presidential run, sent out its first call to action on Friday in support of the president's agenda.
The organization, which is now housed within the Democratic National Committee, emailed everyone who has hosted a house party for the president, encouraging them to do the same in support of the White House-backed economic recovery package....
Uh huh, just like this:
DNC lies shamelessly about support for Obamas horrific budget
POSTED AT 4:44 PM ON APRIL 3, 2009 BY ALLAHPUNDIT
SEND TO A FRIEND | SHARE ON FACEBOOK | REGULAR VIEW
So epic was their failure in drumming up excitement among the grassroots for The Ones $3.6 trillion monstrosity that they decided simply to exaggerate the number of pledges with a little rhetorical sleight of hand. Which, to be fair, is far more efficient than the way ACORN typically does this sort of thing, by having the same guy sign up 40 times.
Anyway, dont think of this as lying. Think of it as creating or saving an extra 400,000 pledges.
At Democratic National Committee headquarters yesterday morning, party workers were loading minivans with Xerox boxes, each addressed to a different congressional office. It was a classic campaign canvassing operation except that the next election is 19 months away. Supporters of President Obamas Budget to Hand Deliver 642,000 Pledges Gathered from Around the Country to Capitol Hill, announced the Democrats news release.....
CNN and the Huffington Post dutifully reported the DNCs claim of 642,000 pledges. Network cameras and the BBC showed up to film the operation. We had one of the big printers downstairs smoking last night, party spokesman Brad Woodhouse said.
In fact, the canvassing of Obamas vaunted e-mail list of 13 million people resulted in just 114,000 pledges a response rate of less than 1 percent. Workers gathered 100,000 more from street canvassing. The DNC got to 642,000 by making three photocopies of each pledge so that each signers senators and representative could get one.
From where did you get the above story? Where is the evidence that it is true?
Perhaps you and your tale spinner are unaware that pledges are not only being collected by canvassers but also via an online tool.
Therefore, the total number of people who have pledged is therefore not represented by the number of people who have signed paper pledge forms.
And does the teller of this tale know that pledge forms are not usually mailed or faxed to OFA? Instead, the information on each is submitted online.
or this Congress isn't feeling much heat from Obama's 'army' | McClatchy
Posted on Tue, Mar. 24, 2009
Congress isn't feeling much heat from Obama's 'army'
David Lightman and William Douglas | McClatchy Newspapers
last updated: March 23, 2009 08:25:14 PM
WASHINGTON President Barack Obama's army of canvassers fanned out across the nation over the weekend to drum up support for his $3.55 trillion budget, but they had no noticeable impact on members of Congress, who on Monday said they were largely unaware of the effort.
"News to me," said Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas, a House Budget Committee member, of the canvassing. Later, his staff said that his office had heard from about 100 voters.
The president's lieutenants tried to open a new front in the "Obama revolution," the grassroots mobilization that propelled the once little-known Illinois senator to the White House last year. David Plouffe, who ran Obama's campaign, now runs "Organizing for America" out of the Democratic National Committee. It uses the same Web-based tactics that won the presidency to mobilize public opinion behind Obama's initiatives in a bid to redefine "business as usual" in Washington.
"The budget that passes Congress has the potential to take our country in a truly new direction the kind of change we all worked so hard for," Plouffe said in an e-mail alert to Obama followers last week. He asked them to rally people in their hometowns behind Obama's budget.....
This story is old. It was updated the evening of only the first working day following the first weekend of the pledge project. A lot of canvassing and telephoning has gone on since then.
Keep trying! Maybe by 2016 y'all will begin making a little headway toward getting it a little bit right!
Annie
Diamond Member
- Nov 22, 2003
- 50,848
- 4,827
- 1,790
On the xeroxing, maybe you like this one better?
washingtonpost.com
Oh and on the parties, well you can make up anything you choose. My guess is it won't be 2016.
washingtonpost.com
...CNN and the Huffington Post dutifully reported the DNC's claim of 642,000 pledges. Network cameras and the BBC showed up to film the operation. "We had one of the big printers downstairs smoking last night," party spokesman Brad Woodhouse said.
In fact, the canvassing of Obama's vaunted e-mail list of 13 million people resulted in just 114,000 pledges -- a response rate of less than 1 percent. Workers gathered 100,000 more from street canvassing. The DNC got to 642,000 by making three photocopies of each pledge so that each signer's senators and representative could get one....
Organizing for America is off to a flying start:
Organizing For America Takes First Action For Obama Agenda
...Organizing for America, the campaign apparatus left over from Barack Obama's presidential run, sent out its first call to action on Friday in support of the president's agenda.
The organization, which is now housed within the Democratic National Committee, emailed everyone who has hosted a house party for the president, encouraging them to do the same in support of the White House-backed economic recovery package....
Uh huh, just like this:
From where did you get the above story? Where is the evidence that it is true?
Perhaps you and your tale spinner are unaware that pledges are not only being collected by canvassers but also via an online tool.
Therefore, the total number of people who have pledged is therefore not represented by the number of people who have signed paper pledge forms.
And does the teller of this tale know that pledge forms are not usually mailed or faxed to OFA? Instead, the information on each is submitted online.
or this Congress isn't feeling much heat from Obama's 'army' | McClatchy
Posted on Tue, Mar. 24, 2009
Congress isn't feeling much heat from Obama's 'army'
David Lightman and William Douglas | McClatchy Newspapers
last updated: March 23, 2009 08:25:14 PM
WASHINGTON President Barack Obama's army of canvassers fanned out across the nation over the weekend to drum up support for his $3.55 trillion budget, but they had no noticeable impact on members of Congress, who on Monday said they were largely unaware of the effort.
"News to me," said Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas, a House Budget Committee member, of the canvassing. Later, his staff said that his office had heard from about 100 voters.
The president's lieutenants tried to open a new front in the "Obama revolution," the grassroots mobilization that propelled the once little-known Illinois senator to the White House last year. David Plouffe, who ran Obama's campaign, now runs "Organizing for America" out of the Democratic National Committee. It uses the same Web-based tactics that won the presidency to mobilize public opinion behind Obama's initiatives in a bid to redefine "business as usual" in Washington.
"The budget that passes Congress has the potential to take our country in a truly new direction the kind of change we all worked so hard for," Plouffe said in an e-mail alert to Obama followers last week. He asked them to rally people in their hometowns behind Obama's budget.....
This story is old. It was updated the evening of only the first working day following the first weekend of the pledge project. A lot of canvassing and telephoning has gone on since then.
Keep trying! Maybe by 2016 y'all will begin making a little headway toward getting it a little bit right!
Oh and on the parties, well you can make up anything you choose. My guess is it won't be 2016.
AnnECUCherry
Member
- Apr 3, 2009
- 302
- 16
- 16
On the xeroxing, maybe you like this one better?
washingtonpost.com
...CNN and the Huffington Post dutifully reported the DNC's claim of 642,000 pledges. Network cameras and the BBC showed up to film the operation. "We had one of the big printers downstairs smoking last night," party spokesman Brad Woodhouse said.
In fact, the canvassing of Obama's vaunted e-mail list of 13 million people resulted in just 114,000 pledges -- a response rate of less than 1 percent. Workers gathered 100,000 more from street canvassing. The DNC got to 642,000 by making three photocopies of each pledge so that each signer's senators and representative could get one....
Organizing for America is off to a flying start:
Organizing For America Takes First Action For Obama Agenda
Uh huh, just like this:
From where did you get the above story? Where is the evidence that it is true?
Perhaps you and your tale spinner are unaware that pledges are not only being collected by canvassers but also via an online tool.
Therefore, the total number of people who have pledged is therefore not represented by the number of people who have signed paper pledge forms.
And does the teller of this tale know that pledge forms are not usually mailed or faxed to OFA? Instead, the information on each is submitted online.
or this Congress isn't feeling much heat from Obama's 'army' | McClatchy
This story is old. It was updated the evening of only the first working day following the first weekend of the pledge project. A lot of canvassing and telephoning has gone on since then.
Keep trying! Maybe by 2016 y'all will begin making a little headway toward getting it a little bit right!
Oh and on the parties, well you can make up anything you choose. My guess is it won't be 2016.
I was being generous. You're right -- it'll probably be later.
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