Conservatism and the Working Man

Ever hear of the Big Branch Mine in Va? How about Massey energy?



Massey Energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A union might have been able to prevent some of these mining deaths.

As John Donne pointed out, the loss of one is a loss of a bit of us all.

But said losses has nothing to do with the overwhelming view of free citizens who carefully consider their career paths and choose not to join unions.

Why?

Are they stupid? Or....insightful?
Is there something that they know that some of us on the board have overlooked?

They're neither stupid nor insightful. They're hungry folk who want to support a family and CAN'T join a union because the owner won't allow unions in the company.

Like I said..........if the workers had been able to pressure the owners via unions for better safety regs, they might not have died.

You were the one that stated we now live in a country where unions aren't necessary (according to you), yet I've provided an example of where they could provide a serious benefit to the workers (like being able to continue breathing).

"You were the one that stated we now live in a country where unions aren't necessary..."

Actually, 91% of the folks on the line stated that....
 
As John Donne pointed out, the loss of one is a loss of a bit of us all.

But said losses has nothing to do with the overwhelming view of free citizens who carefully consider their career paths and choose not to join unions.

Why?

Are they stupid? Or....insightful?
Is there something that they know that some of us on the board have overlooked?

They're neither stupid nor insightful. They're hungry folk who want to support a family and CAN'T join a union because the owner won't allow unions in the company.

Like I said..........if the workers had been able to pressure the owners via unions for better safety regs, they might not have died.

You were the one that stated we now live in a country where unions aren't necessary (according to you), yet I've provided an example of where they could provide a serious benefit to the workers (like being able to continue breathing).

"You were the one that stated we now live in a country where unions aren't necessary..."

Actually, 91% of the folks on the line stated that....

I was referring to our conversation.
 
They're neither stupid nor insightful. They're hungry folk who want to support a family and CAN'T join a union because the owner won't allow unions in the company.

Like I said..........if the workers had been able to pressure the owners via unions for better safety regs, they might not have died.

You were the one that stated we now live in a country where unions aren't necessary (according to you), yet I've provided an example of where they could provide a serious benefit to the workers (like being able to continue breathing).

"You were the one that stated we now live in a country where unions aren't necessary..."

Actually, 91% of the folks on the line stated that....

I was referring to our conversation.

Let me make my position clear.
Based on the freedom of assembly guaranteed in our Constitution, I have no problem with unions.

Nor do I wish any restrictions on joining or not joining same, either by employer intimidation, or by union coercion, or by the fraudulent attempts by Liberal Democrat administrations....
as in:


...that euphoniously named “Employee Free Choice Act,” aka ‘card check.'
If you hate capitalism, this is the bill for you! 1) it eliminates secret ballot elections in favor of public ones: just pass a paper around the office, and if a majority of employees sign on, you have a union. Get it: a little take between you and the ‘organizers.” 2) the bill has no safeguards that mandate what ‘voting’ cards must look like, and 3) it would impose binding government arbitration if the employer and union fail to reach agreement within 90 days of a ‘new’ union being certified. (Opinion: Arbitration the real threat in EFCA - Newt Gingrich - POLITICO.com)
So, the Feds inform the employer of the ‘new salary and benefits.” Who owns the company? Capitalism or communism?

I'd like it to remain a free country.
You too?
 
"You were the one that stated we now live in a country where unions aren't necessary..."

Actually, 91% of the folks on the line stated that....

I was referring to our conversation.

Let me make my position clear.
Based on the freedom of assembly guaranteed in our Constitution, I have no problem with unions.

Nor do I wish any restrictions on joining or not joining same, either by employer intimidation, or by union coercion, or by the fraudulent attempts by Liberal Democrat administrations....
as in:


...that euphoniously named “Employee Free Choice Act,” aka ‘card check.'
If you hate capitalism, this is the bill for you! 1) it eliminates secret ballot elections in favor of public ones: just pass a paper around the office, and if a majority of employees sign on, you have a union. Get it: a little take between you and the ‘organizers.” 2) the bill has no safeguards that mandate what ‘voting’ cards must look like, and 3) it would impose binding government arbitration if the employer and union fail to reach agreement within 90 days of a ‘new’ union being certified. (Opinion: Arbitration the real threat in EFCA - Newt Gingrich - POLITICO.com)
So, the Feds inform the employer of the ‘new salary and benefits.” Who owns the company? Capitalism or communism?

I'd like it to remain a free country.
You too?

Yeah I'd like it to remain a free country, what do you think I spent 20 years of my adult life doing?

And no...........an opinion blog piece by Newt Gingrich is not going to change my mind, fucker has lied too many times already.
 
I'm a conservative and a working man. I've invested 23 years onto my remodeling business. I've had multiple surgeries and been severely injured multiple times. I managed to recover despite not being union. In fact my last nasty injury was at a union warehouse when the stem of their forklift snapped while I was guiding a load into a van. I didn't sue nor did I get any protection from the so called safer workplace. What I did get was 22 weeks of hell and arguments from them about paying the fucking medical bills. Ultimately my insurance paid it and I presume sued the warehouse owners or insurance company.

Unions are a scam to make the wealthy richer. The dues you pay to some fatcat are the monies I will enjoy in my retirement.
 
It swings both ways and that is a fact. Unions get to a point where they destroy jobs, however employees having no power destroys jobs... It's not about meeting in the center, it's about using the tools correctly. Public unions are 110% destructive because they have no bottom line, they just make laws and screw people and there is no opt out, or they would be held accountable and a balance could occur, IE they would collapse as they should.

I see the main issue with debate in this country is the blatant lack of honesty. Unions are not great, Unions are not evil, but when a union is forced on a people through Government then it’s a guarantee the power will be abused. Actually at that point it’s not even a union anymore because there is literally no loss or risk involved… At no point does a Government Union have to think “we are asking for to much and this could backfire” ever.

I simply can’t stand watching people debate that the country is in the shitter because of the “other party.” Then that same person will claim this country is doing great because of their party… The country is either in the shitter or it’s doing great, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say Reagan was a horrible President who screwed the middle class then in another thread claim Obama is like Reagan in many ways but “RWers” just hate Obama because it’s a Democrat… Proving you just hate Reagan because he was Republican as you support Reagan rules when a Democrat does them.
It’s all dishonest and I doubt most people here have the sack to debate someone in real life as they do on these boards.

I do find it interesting that we never ever cut regulations, we never ever cut spending yet “small Government” always gets the blame when massive new Government Programs fail… like public Unions.
 
I posted this in 2010, and I stand by it today...

Like I said in the other thread...the modern incarnation of the Union has become what they sought to oppose... but organizer labor still has a function to serve.

The capitalist model where the rich get richer and the poor and middle class get poorer leads to the same destination as the pseudo-communist two-tiered systems of Soviet Russia or medieval Europe , albeit more slowly.

There will be peasants and there will be lords.

Organized labor can counterbalance big business and help bridge the wealth gap in America...but it will require a nearly complete remodel of Union objectives.

Unions need to be the voice of all American labor, not just Union labor.​

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/142896-unions-in-the-us.html#post2997514
 
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I'm a conservative and a working man. I've invested 23 years onto my remodeling business. I've had multiple surgeries and been severely injured multiple times. I managed to recover despite not being union. In fact my last nasty injury was at a union warehouse when the stem of their forklift snapped while I was guiding a load into a van. I didn't sue nor did I get any protection from the so called safer workplace. What I did get was 22 weeks of hell and arguments from them about paying the fucking medical bills. Ultimately my insurance paid it and I presume sued the warehouse owners or insurance company.

Unions are a scam to make the wealthy richer. The dues you pay to some fatcat are the monies I will enjoy in my retirement.

Seems that there is evidence to support your thesis, as in the following:

"The Service Employees International Union, considered the most influential union in the nation, has notified the union that represents about 220 of the SEIU's national field staff members and organizers that it is laying off 75 of the employees.

In return, the workers union, which goes by the somewhat postmodern name of the Union of Union Representatives, has filed charges of unfair labor practices against the SEIU with the National Labor Relations Board. The workers union's leaders say that the SEIU is engaging in the same kind of practices that some businesses use: laying off workers without proper notice, contracting out work to temporary-staffing firms, banning union activities and reclassifying workers to reduce union numbers.

It's completely hypocritical," said Malcolm Harris, president of the workers union. "This is the union that's been at the forefront of progressive issues, around ensuring that working people and working families are taken care of, but when it comes to the people that work for SEIU, they haven't set the same standards."
Union in Dispute Over Layoffs

And, I recognize the spirit of America in your post- rep on the way...

but, "Unions are a scam..." is a bit harsh.

I leave that determination to those in a position to use, or enter same.
I'm certain that you, as a fellow conservative, are in favor of choice in this area.

Informative post, Gramps.
 
Unions and liberalism shat its own bed when they had the hammer, dude.

Understand I say this and I still support the concept of unionism and I am (by the screwy standards of this RW board, at least) a liberal.


And if you cannot understand why some working people (people who have had to put up with corrupted unionism) hate unions, then you need to school yourself about the REALITY of unions, rather than the THEORY of unions.

I met Jimmy Hoffa, dude.

He was a helliva nice guy to me and my sister he even gave us both a silver dollar.

Of course he warned my (then) shop-stewart father to either shape up and learn to go with the flow or expect get his legs broken.

My getting a silver dollar and my father getting warned happened on the same day.
 
I'm a conservative and a working man. I've invested 23 years onto my remodeling business. I've had multiple surgeries and been severely injured multiple times. I managed to recover despite not being union. In fact my last nasty injury was at a union warehouse when the stem of their forklift snapped while I was guiding a load into a van. I didn't sue nor did I get any protection from the so called safer workplace. What I did get was 22 weeks of hell and arguments from them about paying the fucking medical bills. Ultimately my insurance paid it and I presume sued the warehouse owners or insurance company.

Unions are a scam to make the wealthy richer. The dues you pay to some fatcat are the monies I will enjoy in my retirement.

Seems that there is evidence to support your thesis, as in the following:

"The Service Employees International Union, considered the most influential union in the nation, has notified the union that represents about 220 of the SEIU's national field staff members and organizers that it is laying off 75 of the employees.

In return, the workers union, which goes by the somewhat postmodern name of the Union of Union Representatives, has filed charges of unfair labor practices against the SEIU with the National Labor Relations Board. The workers union's leaders say that the SEIU is engaging in the same kind of practices that some businesses use: laying off workers without proper notice, contracting out work to temporary-staffing firms, banning union activities and reclassifying workers to reduce union numbers.

It's completely hypocritical," said Malcolm Harris, president of the workers union. "This is the union that's been at the forefront of progressive issues, around ensuring that working people and working families are taken care of, but when it comes to the people that work for SEIU, they haven't set the same standards."
Union in Dispute Over Layoffs

And, I recognize the spirit of America in your post- rep on the way...

but, "Unions are a scam..." is a bit harsh.

I leave that determination to those in a position to use, or enter same.
I'm certain that you, as a fellow conservative, are in favor of choice in this area.

Informative post, Gramps.

:lmao: reps your way
 
Are public sector workers deserving of pensions and benefits? Who else, other than the tax payers (who pay the salaries) should contribute to the pension funds after the workers themselves have? In most private employment, the company will contribute, even match the contributions, of the employees. Why should public sector employees be left out on the limb alone?


Federal public sector workers do not have the right to negotiate pay or benefits, and they seem to get along just fine. In the private sector, management has to worry about their ability to continue in business, and negotiates on that basis. In government, the management side is only concerned with his/her next election, and not whether he negotiates away the future of the state. Democrat politicians have been promising more than the states can afford to pay, to obtain the votes of the public sector union workers. This mutual benefit society has brought many states to the verge of bankruptsy.
 

Agreed Dante, totally nutso statement.

Hey FROODA Loops, might wanna take some time and look back in our history for things like Robber Barons and the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire.

Unions are needed so that corporations don't crap all over their workers.


when the great mass of the conservative base goes on about unions and medicare and social security, it is hilarious. Not one of them wants to go back to the days before those things existed. If they did they'd be living a whole nother lifestyle. :lol:

think things are bad today? /there wasn't a sane person who lived back then who wouldn't call today's society heaven on earth - even with our problems. thanks to union pay, social security and medicare for grandpa and grandma


Taking time to look back in our history is wasted, unless you actually learn something useful from the exercise. Obviously, you didn't. Unions had their place, and still do, but they are not the entities that you think they are. Modern unions have shifted from worker/management relation entities, to political entities and honey pots, thinly veiled in worker/management affairs. They take from workers, and feather the nests of politicians, who make laws that assist the union leaders in feathering their own nests.

It does not take union members long to figure out the scam, and they have been leaving the unions in droves. Consequently, the union leaders and their favored politicians have been working hard to enact laws that will force them back to the unions. The dumbed down portion of the population will never figure this out for themselves.

I am aware that many of you cannot imagine life without a government nanny to tuck you in at night, but this country would have survived and prospered without social security, medicare, or unemployment insurance. Capitalism has proven, over and over, that whereever a need exists, someone will figure out a way to fill that need. life insurance and health insurance did not require government action to fill a need. As life in the industrial age began to separate families, and minimize their mutual support networks, retirement insurance and other forms of retirement plans would have become common.
 

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