Consequences of cutting Public Worker benefits.

[xsited1]

That's ridiculous. Private companies are in it for profit. That's it. That's why we need laws and regulations regarding how they conduct business. Greed has no ethics. Left up to Private companies we'd have dangerous food, underaged and overworked employees working in unsafe conditions, pollution up the wazzoo, monopolies and dangerous products.

They are not about keeping people alive. That's a big part of the reason we have government. Imperfect as it is..

Forgive me. I thought we were talking about human beings. You must be talking about some highly-advanced extraterrestrial life form.

What part of the post led you to believe that?

You have much to learn about human nature. Why do you think Marxism failed?

 

[westwall]

Several reasons.

-They can pick and choose which students they admit.
-They can customize the sort of classes they have, they aren't subject to the same criteria government schools have to follow.
-They don't have to provide "free" lunches.

There is no reason why public schools should not be able to do the same things. They used to have more control and options prior to the Federal Takeover of Education.

There are multiple reasons why public schools should never be allowed to do the same thing. First and foremost is that "at-risk" kids are most in need of an education. I don't know why Conservatives prefer prisons (which are much more expensive) over schools..but the best way to stop a problem is to go to root cause and make sure it never becomes a problem.

Nice straw man there butch! Cons don't prefer prisons. However if you have a smart child in a public school they are ignored at best. If you have a student that is in need of help the teachers don't invest the time neccessary to improve beyond the bare minimum.
If your child is average they just get to coast along and not really learn much.

 

[Sallow]

Oh, we DO care for our childrens education, we just wonder why our kids get such a better education at a private school for so much less money per student? Oh and just so you know, my daughters class is 4 students larger then is the average public schools.

Several reasons.

-They can pick and choose which students they admit.
-They can customize the sort of classes they have, they aren't subject to the same criteria government schools have to follow.
-They don't have to provide "free" lunches.

They don't here, if you can pay you can attend. There is a limit to the overall class size however as it is a small school.

Public schools could do that too but they choose not to. Of course a lot of that BS is coming down from DC and that certainly needs to stop. Local control for the local schools is the only way to go. That being said every private school I've ever seen has had educational outcomes significantly better than the public schools. I wonder why the people allow the government to dumb down their children? Kids are sponges and can learn almost anything when they are young, but the public schools run away from that. I wonder why? Maybe because that would require them to WORK!

How do you figure? The school here certainly does provide food for its students. Of course it's built into the fee we pay. But then the same holds true for public schools. They get on average 3,000 more dollars per student and provide a far worse education, but they do help the students feel good about themselves.

My mother was a teacher..so I will go by her experiences. She taught in public school. I've attended both public and private schools. My experience with each were remarkably different.

In any case my Mother has pointed out that kids in her classes had behaviorial problems and some didn't speak English. She spent an enormous amount of her time and her own money to both mentor and provide materials for "problem" children in order to help them keep up. My own experience between public and private schools were profound. The one year I attended a private school, the classes were smaller, the building was brand new and the teachers spend much more time with us. In our French class we actually went on field trips to French restaurants and had to order in French. Public school is where I learned how to street fight. The classes were much bigger and the teachers looked over worked.

 

[Sallow]

There is no reason why public schools should not be able to do the same things. They used to have more control and options prior to the Federal Takeover of Education.

There are multiple reasons why public schools should never be allowed to do the same thing. First and foremost is that "at-risk" kids are most in need of an education. I don't know why Conservatives prefer prisons (which are much more expensive) over schools..but the best way to stop a problem is to go to root cause and make sure it never becomes a problem.

Nice straw man there butch! Cons don't prefer prisons. However if you have a smart child in a public school they are ignored at best. If you have a student that is in need of help the teachers don't invest the time neccessary to improve beyond the bare minimum.
If your child is average they just get to coast along and not really learn much.

Strawman?

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Carl Paladino Backs Welfare Prison Dorms, Hygiene Classes

 

[shintao]

Good, get them out of the way so we can hire new folks to take their jobs at a lower pay level. Lower pensions and lower overall cost. They will probably work better too. I found it amusing that when there was a major storm here the government was told to keep "non-essential" workers home. They were so non-essential no one knew they weren't there.

Hopefully you are right, but I have my doubts. If you pay less, you get less. It is all scaled out. A Mexican makes less because he lacks education, experience, and skills to do more. And when you rid yourself of public workers, the state hires them back as skilled private contractors, plus continues to pay their retirement benefits.

Seems to me if you can not show up for work and there is zero effect (in one case the service was faster and better with the staff on hand) then maybe you ought naught be employed at that locale.

There are too many government workers doing the same jobs. Get rid of the waste.

Yeah, we really don't need so many workers serving us. As slow as the economy is, we can afford to slow government down and spread less workers over more citizens needs.

You're funny! Try visiting a DMV some day. Here in Nevada we are actually pretty lucky as most of the workers are fairly good. It still takes them 30 minutes to do something I do in around 8. So based on your logic they should find people like me and pay them 180k per year and fire the rest. I would go along with that.

So cut the work force and hire back newbies, and lower your taxes. Then hire back private contractors who you fired and now drawing retirements, to come back and get the same job they were doing, done. While that maybe funny, read the OP, as that is exactly what Winconsin is doing with teachers.

 

[gekaap]

Im not really seeing the downside here.

I think the point being made is over tax revenues. You can pay them, and tax them on income. Or, you can pay them, and collect no tax revenues, since the pension income isn't taxable. Meanwhile, you're now paying someone else to fill their role anyway.

 

[shintao]

Forgive me. I thought we were talking about human beings. You must be talking about some highly-advanced extraterrestrial life form.

What part of the post led you to believe that?

You have much to learn about human nature. Why do you think Marxism failed?

LMAO!! Marxism never failed, it was never attempted. It is a fairy tale book like capitalism.

 

[gekaap]

Ummm, maybe. Of course if it is a good CEO they are worth the 20 million. If theysuck as a CEO they should be fired without a Golden Parachute.

You know, I don't see someone who rolls in 7 figures a year, and then cuts compensation to his/her hard working people in order to protect his/her own 7 figures as a "good" CEO.

 

[gekaap]

Here in Nevada where I have to deal with government workers on a fairly regular basis I see the gamut from the merely incompetent (the majority) to the tyrannical (a small percentage but they wreak great havoc and earn their fellow workers nothing but enmity) and of course the good average worker who can do a basic job but is incapable of doing the type of work that would get a promotion in the private sector (the useable minority) and finally, every now and then you find a gem, one who is competent, friendly, who really wants to help people.

You know, I see that same spectrum of personalities, with the same frequency, in the private sector too.

 

[kaz]

It's not "retardation", exactly. It's more a feeling of helplessness..which translates into a "Quisling" like syndrome..or identification with those that are victimizing you. In essense you "become" them..and strike out at people at your same level..

That's why they can't see the danger of one person in a company making 20 million dollars while that same company cuts benefits and employees. These people are "Corporate Quislings".

I'm glad we have someone such as yourself who can tell us how much someone can make and what's too much. It saves so much work...

 

[kaz]

Im not really seeing the downside here.

I think the point being made is over tax revenues. You can pay them, and tax them on income. Or, you can pay them, and collect no tax revenues, since the pension income isn't taxable. Meanwhile, you're now paying someone else to fill their role anyway.

Wow, you really didn't get the comment did you? So I have a question for you. A criminal says pick, I'm going to murder your wife or your son. If you don't pick I'll murder them both. So my question is who are you going to murder? Your wife, your son, or both?

You don't get it do you Bozo?

 

[gekaap]

Wow, you really didn't get the comment did you? So I have a question for you. A criminal says pick, I'm going to murder your wife or your son. If you don't pick I'll murder them both. So my question is who are you going to murder? Your wife, your son, or both?

You don't get it do you Bozo?

What the FUCK does that stupid shit have to do with this discussion? Get the fuck out, you have nothing to contribute.

 

[westwall]

There are multiple reasons why public schools should never be allowed to do the same thing. First and foremost is that "at-risk" kids are most in need of an education. I don't know why Conservatives prefer prisons (which are much more expensive) over schools..but the best way to stop a problem is to go to root cause and make sure it never becomes a problem.

Nice straw man there butch! Cons don't prefer prisons. However if you have a smart child in a public school they are ignored at best. If you have a student that is in need of help the teachers don't invest the time neccessary to improve beyond the bare minimum.
If your child is average they just get to coast along and not really learn much.

Strawman?

Judge Convicted in Pennsylvania Kids-for-Cash Scheme, Faces Long Prison Term and Class Action Lawsuit
New York
Carl Paladino Backs Welfare Prison Dorms, Hygiene Classes

He's not a conservative, he is a villian who should be hung by the neck. Why do you resort to such foolishness? It only makes you look silly. To ascribe the horrible criminal acts of this particular scumbag to conservatism is simply ludicrous. But hey that's your MO isn't it.

 

[westwall]

Ummm, maybe. Of course if it is a good CEO they are worth the 20 million. If theysuck as a CEO they should be fired without a Golden Parachute.

You know, I don't see someone who rolls in 7 figures a year, and then cuts compensation to his/her hard working people in order to protect his/her own 7 figures as a "good" CEO.

Neither do I. Please show me where I said that.

 

[westwall]

Here in Nevada where I have to deal with government workers on a fairly regular basis I see the gamut from the merely incompetent (the majority) to the tyrannical (a small percentage but they wreak great havoc and earn their fellow workers nothing but enmity) and of course the good average worker who can do a basic job but is incapable of doing the type of work that would get a promotion in the private sector (the useable minority) and finally, every now and then you find a gem, one who is competent, friendly, who really wants to help people.

You know, I see that same spectrum of personalities, with the same frequency, in the private sector too.

I don't. I see far more average. The bad ones get booted super fast. The good ones get promoted up to corporate equally fast so that leaves the middle ground.

 

[JFK_USA]

No kidding. Republicans failed common sense 101. Without government, chaos would erupt.

And why is it so great to lower costs? You are going to attract the best talent to work for less? Yeah that will never work, our education will be worse. You need to get over it and start paying top dollar for teachers and actually CARE about our children's education. If we don't start caring, we will become a third world country.

Should someone who doesn't understand the difference between limited government and no government really be lecturing anyone on common sense 101?

No. I meant what I said. Republicans hate government. They hate children trying to get a diverse education, especially poor children. Budgets are always slashed to take away art education programs, music education programs, theater programs, physical education programs. But hey lets give Walmart more tax breaks to build more minimum wage jobs!!!

OH YEAH!!!

See Republican Kool-Aid man has the right idea. I mean why educate our workforce when they are just soooooo much cheaper when they don't have the ability to understand that life could be so much better. But why would republicans want a better life for Americans? That would hurt the people they support, the millionaires and billionaires.

 

[westwall]

Several reasons.

-They can pick and choose which students they admit.
-They can customize the sort of classes they have, they aren't subject to the same criteria government schools have to follow.
-They don't have to provide "free" lunches.

They don't here, if you can pay you can attend. There is a limit to the overall class size however as it is a small school.

Public schools could do that too but they choose not to. Of course a lot of that BS is coming down from DC and that certainly needs to stop. Local control for the local schools is the only way to go. That being said every private school I've ever seen has had educational outcomes significantly better than the public schools. I wonder why the people allow the government to dumb down their children? Kids are sponges and can learn almost anything when they are young, but the public schools run away from that. I wonder why? Maybe because that would require them to WORK!

How do you figure? The school here certainly does provide food for its students. Of course it's built into the fee we pay. But then the same holds true for public schools. They get on average 3,000 more dollars per student and provide a far worse education, but they do help the students feel good about themselves.

My mother was a teacher..so I will go by her experiences. She taught in public school. I've attended both public and private schools. My experience with each were remarkably different.

In any case my Mother has pointed out that kids in her classes had behaviorial problems and some didn't speak English. She spent an enormous amount of her time and her own money to both mentor and provide materials for "problem" children in order to help them keep up. My own experience between public and private schools were profound. The one year I attended a private school, the classes were smaller, the building was brand new and the teachers spend much more time with us. In our French class we actually went on field trips to French restaurants and had to order in French. Public school is where I learned how to street fight. The classes were much bigger and the teachers looked over worked.

Well hell if all it takes is a new building to hlp you learn then the new LA Unified School Districts Taj MAhal should be right up your alley....It's a beautiful edifice and it only cost the taxpayers 578 MILLION DOLLARS! For one school! Just imagine how many teachers that 578 million dollars could have paid for? Just imagine how many schools of lesser visual impact they could have built for that money.

And you know what, that little one room schoolhouse on the praire way back when where all the different classes were squeezed into one room, you remember those? They taught better on average then that 578 million dollar boondoggle. Because it mattered then. The teachers cared about what they did, it was a calling for them. The families were busy as hell running the farms so do you really think they had time to teach their kids? No, it was Miss Smith who did it, and with no modern conveniences that Miss Smith of old could teach a wide variety of subjects to the point that her students could read, knew geography and history, knew the basic science of the time, all things which our modern students can't seem to do.

For the record I used to teach as well and my wife still does and the students coming into the colleges are very poorly prepared these days. It is the exceptionl public school STUDENT who has educated themselves out of the morass of public school lowest common denominator thinking.

The private school kids though allways do much better. And is't not due to the parents doing all the teaching, these are the parents working 60 hours a week to keep their businesses running so that's not it. No, it is the entire philosophy of the school, which is to teach.





LA unveils costliest school in the nation - US news - Life - msnbc.com