Confirmed: Fraudulent Polygamy Cult Tipster is Barack Obama Delegate

[RetiredGySgt]

Ok smartass, why don't you look up a former sect member that was married to Jessop and see what she has to say about what the fathers do to the infants, that ought to shut your mouth right up.

Oh wait, let me dig into my "fantasy" bag and get it for you.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24009286/

You're so full of shit that I can smell it over here. You're probably mormon and can't stand someone picking on a splinter sect of your church. Either that, or you're a member of this type of sect. Or:

This is your best friend:

Once again relevance? No one has any evidence of physical or mental abuse. Basicly you are saying cause Fred beat his kids we should arrest John cause John believes in the same church as Fred.

Gonna be mighty busy arresting a lot of folks on THAT criteria.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What the hell are you talking about Allie....you find anywhere in my post that states that it's ok for people to have sex with underage girls as long as they get an abortion. THE GIRLS OF THIS SECT DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE OF WHO THEY END UP WITH. Why don't you re-read my post and try really hard to comprehend what I said. Think outside your normal box of comprehension skills.

No one's claiming that a 14 year-old is legally old enough to make a choice about that....what I am saying, is that a 50 year-old who chooses to screw a 14 year old girl (even if she does consent), will get busted for being with a minor.

I said, there's a big difference from the girls in the sect being forced to marry someone not of their choosing (older men). And girls who voluntarily have sex with older-age men in society. Not to mention, that older-men in society get nailed by the justice system for having any kind of relation-ship with a minor. Have you not seen all of the teacher's being arrested within the last few years.

I think whover tipped of law-enforcement deserves a GIANT pat on the back.

I suggest you reread the stories posted the girls do IN FACT have choice. They have stated so, the church has stated so and have stated that if a girl does not chose to marry someone they lose NO standing in the church, pretty cut and dried. Further the lawyers for the children and parents have stated that the only "13" year old to have a child is now 23, it happened 10 YEARS ago. She was NOT in Texas and unless the State she got pregnant in has no statute of limitations it is long past done and over.

 

[Angel Heart]

I'll let their leader speak for himself:

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He makes it sounds like you have no choice in it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Have you ever been to Utah? Serious question. The women I met there seemed to be brainwashed and they were only LDS, not FLDS. It's kind of scary.

Ohh please, what a retarded claim. I have been in the church since 1979, never met a brainwashed woman ever. Woman are an integral part of the ministry, running numerous classes and studies as well as womens groups with in the church ( men run mens groups, what a concept).

The church even now has women as missionaries. That used to just be men. Ohh ya my wife is NOT a member, never was and never will be. Nor are my kids, so much for brainwashing. My daughter briefly joined to please me, but she isn't much into religion so quit.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

“The method he would use with infants was a form of water torture,” Jessop said of her former husband. “He would spank the baby until it was screaming out of control, and then he would hold the baby faceup under a tap of running water so it couldn’t breathe. He would do this repeatedly. Sometimes, it would go on for an hour, until the baby was so exhausted it couldn’t cry anymore. This method he called ‘breaking them.’”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24009286/

I guess they don't beat their infants huh RGS???

Read the article ALLIE.

Ohh I see if we are going to judge an entire religion by ONE man, then why is it all Muslims are not Terrorists, are you going to demand we arrest all Muslims? After all we know of THOUSANDS of Muslims that are terrorists. We know part of the religion actively train their children to BE terrorists.

Once again if John is guilty cause Fred did something illegal and John is guilty just cause he belongs to the same church, we better get hoping and arrest a who;e SHIT load of catholics and protestants, Jews and Muslims, Even Hindus. You are gonna be busy with that process.

 

[Gunny]

April 23, 2008

Confirmed: Rozita Swinton, the woman implicated as the hoaxter who placed a fraudulent phone call which led to the roundup of hundreds of children from the Texas polygamy cult ranch, is a Barack Obama delegate to the Colorado state Democratic convention.

Stacey McCain digs this up:

After the El Paso County Democratic caucuses and convention, she was named one of the 360 delegates to the state convention at the World Arena on May 17, chosen to support Barack Obama.

She's also reported as being politically active, but relatively unknown. Earlier reports said that when Texas Rangers and Colorado State Police searched her home, they found tons of information on the FLDS cult. Apparently, she made the whole story of poor "Sarah" the abused child-bride of a 50 year old man out of sensationalist reports that she had read from anti-cult groups.

Most of those in the comments still defending the raid seem to focus on the allegation that "girls as young as 13 are married and pregnant". One of the FLDS lawyers I keep seeing on TV says that this is patently false, and the claime made by the state is not that there are "13 year olds" but a single allegation that one 13 year old was pregnant 10 years ago.

If that is true would it change your perception that there is some justification for tearing hundreds of kids away from their families based on a search warrant executed on false grounds?

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/192424.php

Has she been charged with making the call? I see words like "implicated" and "apparently."

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Has she been charged with making the call? I see words like "implicated" and "apparently."

Yup, make excuses. Perhaps you can join a certain other poster that wants to give her a medal for make a false call.

I notice with the children all you need is apparently, but with this lady you need proof.

 

[Angel Heart]

The phone call just made them go out and look... What they saw out there is what they decided to take the kids on. If someone dialed 911 on a false report but when the cops got out there they saw signs of child abuse, should they not take steps to protect the children? Or should be we go back to having the "Humane Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and Children"? Where children where equal to animals.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The phone call just made them go out and look... What they saw out there is what they decided to take the kids on. If someone dialed 911 on a false report but when the cops got out there they saw signs of child abuse, should they not take steps to protect the children? Or should be we go back to having the "Humane Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and Children"? Where children where equal to animals.

They saw no abuse. They took the initial children because they could not FIND the "girl" they then continued a raid for 7 days and made fabrication after fabrication. Recall the " we found a hair on a bed" "evidence"? The Child service people even made shit up, like, " we have to take the boys cause they are taught to be abusers" No evidence of this abuse, but they have evidence the boys are taught to abuse.

They used a false call to do what they legally could not do, not because they found abuse but because they do NOT LIKE this group.

 

[Gunny]

Yup, make excuses. Perhaps you can join a certain other poster that wants to give her a medal for make a false call.

I notice with the children all you need is apparently, but with this lady you need proof.

Not so. I'm determining where to put this thread. That title is pure yellow journalism at it's finest any Cold War journalist would be proud of.

One, the fact that this woman is one of 360 Obama delegates is COMPLETELY irrelevant.

Two, yeah, I want evidence. I want to see evidence if any of the people from the commune are taken to trial. And I want to see evidence that this woman has been identified since the first word in the paragraph is "Confirmed:", followed in the next sentence with the word "implicated."

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Not so. I'm determining where to put this thread. That title is pure yellow journalism at it's finest any Cold War journalist would be proud of.

One, the fact that this woman is one of 360 Obama delegates is COMPLETELY irrelevant.

Two, yeah, I want evidence. I want to see evidence if any of the people from the commune are taken to trial. And I want to see evidence that this woman has been identified since the first word in the paragraph is "Confirmed:", followed in the next sentence with the word "implicated."

The children were taken with no evidence. No confirmation and in fact in violation of operating procedures for the State. The DNA testing and the hearings could and should have occurred with the CHILDREN at home. The only reason it is NOT happening that way is because people like you do not like religious freedom.

You can move the thread anywhere you want, doesn't change the fact we will continue to post on it.

 

[Angel Heart]

And what will you say when the DNA comes back showing that 13 yr old girls had babies with 50 yr old men?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And what will you say when the DNA comes back showing that 13 yr old girls had babies with 50 yr old men?

Actually it won't say that, since the State has to identify a man as a SUSPECT to force him to give DNA. The women will give, but if I were the lawyers for the women I would advice them NOT to have the fathers give a sample for ANY reason.

You have of course heard of the 5th and 4th amendments? The State wants to go on a fishing expedition? The fathers should not participate.

 

[jillian]

Actually it won't say that, since the State has to identify a man as a SUSPECT to force him to give DNA. The women will give, but if I were the lawyers for the women I would advice them NOT to have the fathers give a sample for ANY reason.

You have of course heard of the 5th and 4th amendments? The State wants to go on a fishing expedition? The fathers should not participate.

This isn't a criminal proceeding. There isn't any 5th amendment protection. A court order directing an DNA test is sufficient.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This isn't a criminal proceeding. There isn't any 5th amendment protection. A court order directing an DNA test is sufficient.

Wrong again. the 5th applies as does the 4th. One can not force a person to incriminate themselves by ANY means nor can they compel a person to submit DNA with out cause.

Now if the Child services or the Court want to grant immunity or stipulate the samples and results will never be turned over for any criminal proceedings.....

 

[Gunny]

The children were taken with no evidence. No confirmation and in fact in violation of operating procedures for the State. The DNA testing and the hearings could and should have occurred with the CHILDREN at home. The only reason it is NOT happening that way is because people like you do not like religious freedom.

You can move the thread anywhere you want, doesn't change the fact we will continue to post on it.

Really? And who would be bitching the loudest if one little hair on some child was out of place that was left at home pending the investigation? we hear about it on the news every day and who gets the finger pointed at them? CPS. Now you're pointing the finger for actually taking preventive measures pending investigation.

I have no problem with freedom of religion. This isn't a freedom of religion issue. It's a legal one. Polygamy is against the law in this state -- that would be for everyone, not just fundamentalist Mormons, and children cannot marry under the age of 16, and having sex with them is statuatory rape.

None of which has anything to do with where this thread's going if I don't see some evidence.

 

[jillian]

Wrong again. the 5th applies as does the 4th. One can not force a person to incriminate themselves by ANY means nor can they compel a person to submit DNA with out cause.

Now if the Child services or the Court want to grant immunity or stipulate the samples and results will never be turned over for any criminal proceedings.....

Despite the concern in Verena E., that &#8220;[t]he respondent should not be compelled by the court to facilitate her own adjudication of neglect (citation omitted), there is nothing in the legislative history of FCA &#167; 1047(b) or other statutes cited by the court to indicate that the legislature also intended to extend the protections afforded by the Fifth Amendment to respondents in proceedings under Family Court Act article 10. A child protection proceeding is not a criminal prosecution. (citation omitted) Unlike a criminal defendant, a respondent in a child protection proceeding may suffer an adverse inference from his or her silence at trial. (citation omitted) As in any other civil proceeding, a respondent in an article 10 proceeding may be required to answer interrogatories.

In re CPS, 5 Misc.3d 1020(A), 799 N.Y.S.2d 159 (Table)

You're free to google it. I can't link it because you won't be able to get into my westlaw account. And yes it's only a family court case, but the appellate cases say the same thing and that was the first one I found.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080423/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

Yup, the State sure has the best interest of the children at heart.

Ohh as to evidence, did he NOT post a link to his story? You don't like the title? Shall we start submitting title of threads for your personal approval? I did not see that listed in the board rules anywhere?

Just trying to ascertain what rules have been broken or are now being added.

Feel free as the Admin to do as you please. Do us the favor though of not claiming things NOT in evidence.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

From the proved link.

Update within the post: Like I said, confirmed. WJACTV:

An affidavit made public Wednesday said a phone number Swinton had used previously was used for a call to a Texas crisis center before authorities conducted the raid and removed more than 400 children.

Ya I know pure coincidence that a 16 year old girl captive, beaten, raped and brainwashed , held on a ranch in Texas,made her call from Colorado.

 

[Angel Heart]

Actually it won't say that, since the State has to identify a man as a SUSPECT to force him to give DNA. The women will give, but if I were the lawyers for the women I would advice them NOT to have the fathers give a sample for ANY reason.

You have of course heard of the 5th and 4th amendments? The State wants to go on a fishing expedition? The fathers should not participate.

Well I think they will get the DNA anyways.... What when it comes back that 50 yr old men raped 13 yr old girls? Will we not of made the right actions to end this groups rule of terror?

Not to mention their fleecing of our tax dollars. Most of them gathered social services under the rules of single mothers.