Concealed Carry versus Real World - a study

[akelch]

Well, in debate, one actually takes a position.

Now you know.

He has no interest in debate. It is an anti gun troll thread meant to stir the pot.

Trust me, when I want to stir the pot ... I'll do it. Ask anybody. I ain't exactly gun shy, pun intended.

I don't need a position to present a topic. I'm not "in" this one; I'm a spectator. All I ask is for analysts to back up their position. Something I must note you have failed to do, but then you didn't even take a position. All you did was try to assume mine. I happen to think we all need to analyze this stuff, and to that end there have been several good, thoughtful responses. Barking on the side about how the debate is presented is not one of them.

What debate? Seems that everyone is in agreement. Flawed experiment and agenda driven journalism.

Case closed.

 

[Pogo]

He has no interest in debate. It is an anti gun troll thread meant to stir the pot.

Trust me, when I want to stir the pot ... I'll do it. Ask anybody. I ain't exactly gun shy, pun intended.

I don't need a position to present a topic. I'm not "in" this one; I'm a spectator. All I ask is for analysts to back up their position. Something I must note you have failed to do, but then you didn't even take a position. All you did was try to assume mine. I happen to think we all need to analyze this stuff, and to that end there have been several good, thoughtful responses. Barking on the side about how the debate is presented is not one of them.

What debate? Seems that everyone is in agreement. Flawed experiment and agenda driven journalism.

Case closed.

Now that's deep reasoning. My head swims.

First thing you prolly need to do is figure out the difference between the word "everybody" and the word "I". You'll be amazed what a world there is outside your own head.

Next...

 

[Missourian]

The woman, who had her 8-month-old child with her, was being brutally stabbed along the highway with a four-inch-long knife by her husband, Ponce-Garcia, witnesses say.

Gary Cherry is being credited with saving the woman's life.

"I was leaving my house, going to see my uncle and I hit 1010 right off of 105 and rounded the corner and there were two people in the middle of the road," Cherry said.

Cherry, a card-carrying concealed handgun license holder, sprang into action with his piece.

"I come out of my truck with my gun and the man wouldn't stop and I was about 20 yards away from him. He came toward me. That's when I drawed my gun," he said.

That gesture was enough to get the suspect off the woman. Keep in mind, a woman who also had her child with her, a child that was sitting in her vehicle until Crystal Ward showed up on the scene.

Read more: CHL holder saves woman from brutal stabbing - Houston weather, traffic, news | FOX 26 | MyFoxHouston
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[akelch]

Trust me, when I want to stir the pot ... I'll do it. Ask anybody. I ain't exactly gun shy, pun intended.

I don't need a position to present a topic. I'm not "in" this one; I'm a spectator. All I ask is for analysts to back up their position. Something I must note you have failed to do, but then you didn't even take a position. All you did was try to assume mine. I happen to think we all need to analyze this stuff, and to that end there have been several good, thoughtful responses. Barking on the side about how the debate is presented is not one of them.

What debate? Seems that everyone is in agreement. Flawed experiment and agenda driven journalism.

Case closed.

Now that's deep reasoning. My head swims.

First thing you prolly need to do is figure out the difference between the word "everybody" and the word "I". You'll be amazed what a world there is outside your own head.

Next...

Everyone that agrees with me has already given reasons why.

Everyone that does not agree with me hasn't gave any reasons why.

How is this a debate?

 

[Pogo]

Came across this video, strangely enough while searching music. Thought it would be useful in this forum.

No comment, just watch the report, see what you think.

Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part One - YouTube

I find it ironic that a person in this forum who is anti-self protection, uses "Ahmed The Dead Terrorist" as his avatar. Anybody who has watched Jeff Dunham knows that Ahmed's REAL phrase is "Silence, I Kill You". Pogo, you're a professional HYPOCRITE.

I have a concealed carry permit, and so does my wife. When we had our farm, we had our own firing range set up. Now that we've moved, we go to the local indoor firing range.

When I walk into a store, or I am anywhere else out in public, I pity the fool who tries to commence another mass murder. That person will be DEAD, and lives will be saved. I can promise you that.

"Anti-self protection"??
Based on what? Thoughts deeper than one-dementianal simplisticity?

BTW it's Achmed, not Ahmed, and I have never claimed his catchphrase is not "Silence! I keel you!". Obviously I'm familiar with him, else I would not have used a parody of him. Duh!

Back to the end of your post-- no, I don't think you can.

 

[Missourian]

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.


"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.


Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.


"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."


Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon | kgw.com Portland

 

[Missourian]

BOILING SPRINGS, S.C. (AP) — A South Carolina sheriff is praising a man with a concealed weapons permit who helped disarm someone who kicked in the door of a church armed with a shotgun.

Sheriff: Concealed Weapon Saves Church From Man Armed With Shotgun « CBS Charlotte

 

[boilermaker55]

What would be the percentage of those wanting and having a concealed permit would go through training and continue? Makes you think of all the troubles and efforts someone will go through to be able to react in a situation.
My guess is that a very large percentage would not bother; just get the weapon and that is all they will do.
If any of you have ever been in a situation where you have to be in a firefight you would know exactly what this is all about, rather than just say BS. It shows your complete ignorance.

Interesting video, not too realistic, it was obvious the shooter knew which student was armed and went for them. They also had the students carrying their guns in one of the least desirable fashions there is, if your going to wear it on a belt it's better to wear it in front where you can use both hands, one to move the clothing and the other to get the gun. In the real world the shooter would be going through the same physiological changes as the targets in terms of racing heartbeat and high adrenalin levels, the average criminal won't be as accurate as a cop in a training situation. They are correct that you have to stay in practice on retrieval techniques and they change with every outfit you wear. That's all part of the responsibility of carrying a gun.

 

[Missourian]

Dave Young was driving up to the Arizona Central Credit Union branch last Friday when he saw a friend's son trying to stop a man jumping over a fence.
Young says he quickly confirmed a bank robbery had occurred and took off after the two in his vehicle.
The Arizona Daily Sun reports Young caught up with the pair and placed his hand on his sidearm, showing the suspect that he was armed. He didn't pull his gun.
Young called 911 and police took the suspect into custody.
Young says he's held a concealed carry permit since 1998.

Read more: Gun-toting Good Samaritan Dave Young helps stop Flagstaff bank robber

 

[Missourian]

SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - Kiet Thanh Ly is accused of a stabbing spree at a downtown Salt Lake City supermarket.

The stabbing happened at the 400 South 600 East Smith's location April 26 at about 5:30 p.m. where the stabbings sent customers running for safety.

Police say Ly, who is 33-years-old, bought the knife at the store then stabbed two men in the parking lot and tried to stab others. Police say Ly did not know his victims.

The hero of the hour is a man with a concealed weapons permit. He held Ly at gunpoint until police arrived.

Man uses concealed weapon to stop stabbing spree, police say he likely saved lives - ABC4.com - Salt Lake City, Utah News

 

[Missourian]

ALBUQUERQUE (AP) –

Police said Felix Vigil was attacking his ex-wife with a knife near the store’s deli counter where she worked when an armed customer intervened and shot him. The woman, Joyce Cordova, was treated for multiple stab wounds and later released from an Albuquerque hospital.

The armed customer, 72-year-old Due Moore, was interviewed after the shooting last Thursday and released.

 

[Missourian]

Paul Joseph Watson:Despite calling in the same year for an outright ban on all firearms, Senator Dianne Feinstein, (yes, THAT Dianne Feinstein) who is set to introduce legislation that would gut the second amendment, said in 1995 that she carried a concealed gun in order to protect herself against terrorists.

Read more at Dianne Feinstein:
​

 

[Politico]

He has no interest in debate. It is an anti gun troll thread meant to stir the pot.

Trust me, when I want to stir the pot ... I'll do it. Ask anybody. I ain't exactly gun shy, pun intended.

I don't need a position to present a topic. I'm not "in" this one; I'm a spectator. All I ask is for analysts to back up their position. Something I must note you have failed to do, but then you didn't even take a position. All you did was try to assume mine. I happen to think we all need to analyze this stuff, and to that end there have been several good, thoughtful responses. Barking on the side about how the debate is presented is not one of them.

What debate? Seems that everyone is in agreement. Flawed experiment and agenda driven journalism.

Case closed.

Wow talk about classic leftytooon misdirection. Criticizing someone who pointed out your lack of position for not taking a position. No you're not trolling at all.

 

[Pogo]

Trust me, when I want to stir the pot ... I'll do it. Ask anybody. I ain't exactly gun shy, pun intended.

I don't need a position to present a topic. I'm not "in" this one; I'm a spectator. All I ask is for analysts to back up their position. Something I must note you have failed to do, but then you didn't even take a position. All you did was try to assume mine. I happen to think we all need to analyze this stuff, and to that end there have been several good, thoughtful responses. Barking on the side about how the debate is presented is not one of them.

What debate? Seems that everyone is in agreement. Flawed experiment and agenda driven journalism.

Case closed.

Wow talk about classic leftytooon misdirection. Criticizing someone who pointed out your lack of position for not taking a position. No you're not trolling at all.

Who the fuck are you talking to? What is your malfunction exactly?

No, presenting a topic/video for discussion is not called "trolling". And if I want to do so neutrally and invite all sides to comment, then I will do exactly that and I sure as hell don't need your approval. Like it or lump it.

Sheeeeeeesh.

 

[OKTexas]

Came across this video, strangely enough while searching music. Thought it would be useful in this forum.

No comment, just watch the report, see what you think.

Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part One - YouTube

Thanks for posting.

I've seen this and it's why a laugh at people who think more guns is the answer to public safety.

NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE backs that up.

John Lott has been discredited and disgraced. He has been proven a fraud.

Tell that to the 2+ million people that use firearms to protect themselves every year.

 

[OKTexas]

What would be the percentage of those wanting and having a concealed permit would go through training and continue? Makes you think of all the troubles and efforts someone will go through to be able to react in a situation.
My guess is that a very large percentage would not bother; just get the weapon and that is all they will do.
If any of you have ever been in a situation where you have to be in a firefight you would know exactly what this is all about, rather than just say BS. It shows your complete ignorance.

Interesting video, not too realistic, it was obvious the shooter knew which student was armed and went for them. They also had the students carrying their guns in one of the least desirable fashions there is, if your going to wear it on a belt it's better to wear it in front where you can use both hands, one to move the clothing and the other to get the gun. In the real world the shooter would be going through the same physiological changes as the targets in terms of racing heartbeat and high adrenalin levels, the average criminal won't be as accurate as a cop in a training situation. They are correct that you have to stay in practice on retrieval techniques and they change with every outfit you wear. That's all part of the responsibility of carrying a gun.

Would you be so kind as to point out what I got wrong?

 

[PaulS1950]

The reasons the "armed" people in the video failed have been stated. As a concealed carry individual I have three holsters for my carry gun. If I am going to be sitting at all I would never wear a belt holster. You cannot get at your gun in a belt holster in a seated position. No matter how I practiced I just couldn't reasonably draw the gun in that position. From a shoulder holster you can draw the gun from any position other than laying on the side of the holster. I practice with my gun. I practice mentally, physically and emotionally to be able to get the gun on target while checking the background, the motion of others in the area and what the path and lead of the target is. I practice with live ammo at the range, without ammo at home. I practice all the things that build "muscle memory" and make the complicated task of using a gun in a defensive situation a more natural and safe thing, for me and the others in the area.
The video was accurate in showing that you are ill equipped to protect yourself or others in the first few seconds of a surprise attack without training - and lots of it. As stated earlier if someone had been outside the room with a gun then the perp could have been stopped. The video was clear in that the one person with the gun was the primary target. When carrying concealed you never let anyone know that you are in possession of a gun. They can "out" you to a perp that might otherwise overlook you by urging you to use your gun before you can do so safely. My brother and I train together and where ever we go, we go armed. I know what his impulses are and he knows mine. we could easily work together to the best end result if we were ever in that situation.
We have been lucky. I have only had to pull my gun once - it was all nearly automatic - checking the surroundings, background, where the target was and in what direction it was moving. I was out in the open and had no place to get cover or protection but fortunately the animal that was charging me was tethered and I didn't have to eat horse meat. Her colt had been moved into the corral behind me and she felt I was a danger to the colt.
The funny thing about that whole situation was that before it happened I always looked for people - not animals. It opened my eyes to a deficit in my training. I adapted and keep training. It is always better if you are not surprised.
When you eat at a restaurant you sit in a corner - facing the door. When you go to a movie you sit at the wall between the doors. You have to be aware of the entrances and exits in relation to you and others in the area. You have to begin by planning each part of exposure until it becomes second nature. Then you begin to recognize that the older cops do the same thing - you will find them near the back facing the door just like you are doing - they have been trained to survive and to protect themselves and others in the area.

 

[boilermaker55]

How often have you trained in a firefight situation? Have you ever actually been in a firefight.
How many different scenario's have you been trained in and how to react?
It is to easy to sit behind the computer screen and make statements of how brave and accurate one would be in a stressful situation.

The reasons the "armed" people in the video failed have been stated. As a concealed carry individual I have three holsters for my carry gun. If I am going to be sitting at all I would never wear a belt holster. You cannot get at your gun in a belt holster in a seated position. No matter how I practiced I just couldn't reasonably draw the gun in that position. From a shoulder holster you can draw the gun from any position other than laying on the side of the holster. I practice with my gun. I practice mentally, physically and emotionally to be able to get the gun on target while checking the background, the motion of others in the area and what the path and lead of the target is. I practice with live ammo at the range, without ammo at home. I practice all the things that build "muscle memory" and make the complicated task of using a gun in a defensive situation a more natural and safe thing, for me and the others in the area.
The video was accurate in showing that you are ill equipped to protect yourself or others in the first few seconds of a surprise attack without training - and lots of it. As stated earlier if someone had been outside the room with a gun then the perp could have been stopped. The video was clear in that the one person with the gun was the primary target. When carrying concealed you never let anyone know that you are in possession of a gun. They can "out" you to a perp that might otherwise overlook you by urging you to use your gun before you can do so safely. My brother and I train together and where ever we go, we go armed. I know what his impulses are and he knows mine. we could easily work together to the best end result if we were ever in that situation.
We have been lucky. I have only had to pull my gun once - it was all nearly automatic - checking the surroundings, background, where the target was and in what direction it was moving. I was out in the open and had no place to get cover or protection but fortunately the animal that was charging me was tethered and I didn't have to eat horse meat. Her colt had been moved into the corral behind me and she felt I was a danger to the colt.
The funny thing about that whole situation was that before it happened I always looked for people - not animals. It opened my eyes to a deficit in my training. I adapted and keep training. It is always better if you are not surprised.
When you eat at a restaurant you sit in a corner - facing the door. When you go to a movie you sit at the wall between the doors. You have to be aware of the entrances and exits in relation to you and others in the area. You have to begin by planning each part of exposure until it becomes second nature. Then you begin to recognize that the older cops do the same thing - you will find them near the back facing the door just like you are doing - they have been trained to survive and to protect themselves and others in the area.