CDZ Concealed Carry Ethics, Obligations and Mindset

[Skull Pilot]

I've seen many people on this board that equate CCW with a gung ho wannabe cowboy just itching to slap leather and shoot a bad guy.

The truth of the matter is that CCW permit holders are less likely to get involved in avoidable altercations not more likely. Somehow that fact is another reason to criticize CCW permit holders as in the "Why didn't that CCW person stop a crime?"

I would like to reference anyone here with a stance pro or anti CCW to read any of the excellent books and articles by Massad Ayoob on the subject of concealed carry. He explores the legal, ethical and practical issues of concealed carry.

First and foremost carrying a weapon in public is a very serious responsibility and the vast majority of CCW permit holders approach it as such. It's easy to be cavalier on an anonymous message board. I'm guilty of it as many if not all of us are here. I will avoid that tendency here and I encourage anyone responding to do so as well.

I think we can all agree that it is perfectly reasonable and socially, morally, and ethically acceptable to want to protect your family from harm. Can't we?

Now with that in mind the argument of the likelihood of needing a firearm to defend yourself and/or your family is often used as an argument against even owning a firearm never mind carrying concealed.

After all how many times do people get killed by criminals in their own home? The answer to that question is the same as anywhere else. Just once.

People take precautions against things that have a low likelihood of happening all the because the result of those things happening just once is unthinkable not because it is believed the danger is actually greater than it is.

I don't want to start this thread with an overly long post so let's start here

Thank you

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Why do people buy insurance?

Same thing.

The last thing I ever want to do in life is fire my weapon because of necessity.

 

[Wilbur Right]

I think we can all agree that it is perfectly reasonable and socially, morally, and ethically acceptable to want to protect your family from harm. Can't we?

Is it ok that drug dealers and gang bangers feel the same way? Gotta protect the family and turf.

 

[strollingbones]

i think the cc has made my son much more aware of his actions ....road rage is totally gone....he is much calmer....and he in into the cc....as he says...if he has his pants on...he has a pistol on...

 

[Skull Pilot]

I think we can all agree that it is perfectly reasonable and socially, morally, and ethically acceptable to want to protect your family from harm. Can't we?

Is it ok that drug dealers and gang bangers feel the same way? Gotta protect the family and turf.

Are you really trying to make an equivalency between a drug or turf war with protecting your family in your own home?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I think we can all agree that it is perfectly reasonable and socially, morally, and ethically acceptable to want to protect your family from harm. Can't we?

Is it ok that drug dealers and gang bangers feel the same way? Gotta protect the family and turf.

Complete idiots ask completely idiotic questions by default.

No offense. Merely a general observation.

 

[strollingbones]

how many drug dealers and gang bangers do you come in contact with? daily?

 

[strollingbones]

in 35 years i needed a gun due to another human being...one time...only one time...but i was damn glad to have it the one time i needed it...

<---well armed liberal

 

[Skull Pilot]

i think the cc has made my son much more aware of his actions ....road rage is totally gone....he is much calmer....and he in into the cc....as he says...if he has his pants on...he has a pistol on...

Thanks Bones

A CCW permit holder no longer has the right to flip off everyone on the road. The risk that someone might escalate the situation is far too great. In fact I find that I am more likely to take great care in my actions and will seek to avoid any and all confrontations

 

[Divine Wind]

Is it ok that drug dealers and gang bangers feel the same way? Gotta protect the family and turf.

Why do you equate illegal activities and criminals with lawful citizens protecting themselves and their families?

That's a straw man argument. Akin to saying anyone who defends the First Amendment's religious freedom clause with supporting ISIS.

 

[strollingbones]

i see it having matured him.....he takes it so seriously....he never mentions that he carries in public....he loves to shoot that gun....and i nearly died when they mentioned needing another gun safe....combo of several family members having guns stored there...now he would kill me for putting that out there lol

 

[Skull Pilot]

Is it ok that drug dealers and gang bangers feel the same way? Gotta protect the family and turf.

Why do you equate illegal activities and criminals with lawful citizens protecting themselves and their families?

That's a straw man argument. Akin to saying anyone who defends the First Amendment's religious freedom clause with supporting ISIS.

It's the common way to push an agenda.

Equate legal responsible actions with illegal ones

 

[strollingbones]

the ussc has again and again reaffirmed the right of americans to have self protection...simple as that

 

[Skull Pilot]

i see it having matured him.....he takes it so seriously....he never mentions that he carries in public....he loves to shoot that gun....and i nearly died when they mentioned needing another gun safe....combo of several family members having guns stored there...now he would kill me for putting that out there lol

Most of my friends don't even know I have a CCW permit. I never talk about guns in public. I don't even tell my wife when I'm carrying. Which I do more often now not because I feel less safe but because I basically stopped carrying for a long time and when I did carry again I felt uncomfortable and self conscious. If you are going to carry then carry all the time so it becomes ingrained in you to always be aware

 

[Wilbur Right]

Why do people buy insurance?

Same thing.

Really? Who has your insurance ever shot?
Do you worry about someone breaking into your home and stealing your insurance?
Has your insurance ever been used against you?
Has a kid ever found insurance and shot someone or themselves?

I get what you are trying to say. But the anology just isn't quite correct.

On the other hand, I am not a person (especially when young) that you would have wanted carrying a gun. Trust me on this.
Fortunately I know myself well enough to have avoided ccw.
I trust my situational awareness to keep me out of trouble. So far it has worked. Mess around with my family and home and I wouldn't have the same restraint about grabbing my gun.

In other words, my carrying a gun would not make me more polite. It would make me a bigger asshole. Like it does a lot of people.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why do people buy insurance?

Same thing.

Really? Who has your insurance ever shot?
Do you worry about someone breaking into your home and stealing your insurance?
Has your insurance ever been used against you?
Has a kid ever found insurance and shot someone or themselves?

I get what you are trying to say. But the anology just isn't quite correct.

On the other hand, I am not a person (especially when young) that you would have wanted carrying a gun. Trust me on this.
Fortunately I know myself well enough to have avoided ccw.
I trust my situational awareness to keep me out of trouble. So far it has worked. Mess around with my family and home and I wouldn't have the same restraint about grabbing my gun.

In other words, my carrying a gun would not make me more polite. It would make me a bigger asshole. Like it does a lot of people.

Has your insurance ever stopped your house from burning down? Getting into a car accident? Getting sick?

No

On the other hand a defensive weapon has stopped criminals from harming people and their families

And my advice to you is that you should carry a gn because you will find it will make you more responsible not less.

 

[yiostheoy]

I've seen many people on this board that equate CCW with a gung ho wannabe cowboy just itching to slap leather and shoot a bad guy.

The truth of the matter is that CCW permit holders are less likely to get involved in avoidable altercations not more likely. Somehow that fact is another reason to criticize CCW permit holders as in the "Why didn't that CCW person stop a crime?"

I would like to reference anyone here with a stance pro or anti CCW to read any of the excellent books and articles by Massad Ayoob on the subject of concealed carry. He explores the legal, ethical and practical issues of concealed carry.

First and foremost carrying a weapon in public is a very serious responsibility and the vast majority of CCW permit holders approach it as such. It's easy to be cavalier on an anonymous message board. I'm guilty of it as many if not all of us are here. I will avoid that tendency here and I encourage anyone responding to do so as well.

I think we can all agree that it is perfectly reasonable and socially, morally, and ethically acceptable to want to protect your family from harm. Can't we?

Now with that in mind the argument of the likelihood of needing a firearm to defend yourself and/or your family is often used as an argument against even owning a firearm never mind carrying concealed.

After all how many times do people get killed by criminals in their own home? The answer to that question is the same as anywhere else. Just once.

People take precautions against things that have a low likelihood of happening all the because the result of those things happening just once is unthinkable not because it is believed the danger is actually greater than it is.

I don't want to start this thread with an overly long post so let's start here

Thank you

We used his (M. Ayoob) videos in my CCW class.

He emphasizes situational awareness and being careful not to walk into a trap of some kind. Because if you end up outgunned then your gun won't do you much good.

He also emphasizes the importance of practice for drawing from concealed, aiming and shooting quickly and accurately.

But you also need to determine if taking the shot is feasible, and if not, you need to change your position to make it more feasible. Kneeling and shooting upwards is one example. That sends the bullet far away after exit, and hopefully where it lands -- preferable in a ceiling board -- won't then cause further injury.

But before you shoot you should scramble for some kind of protective cover because if the other guy is going to shoot at you then cover will keep you from getting shot.

Those are all decisions made within fractions of a second. But you must always consider everything around you and your target and behind your target and adjust your positioning accordingly before you take the shot.

So first I would be aware of danger, then I would sense danger, then I would try to further avoid danger, then I would begin the process of drawing the pistol, seeking cover, taking position, taking aim, releasing the safety, and squeezing-off the round.

He teaches you to observe the target to see if there was any change from your shot, and if not then shoot again. If there is still no result from both shots, then you need to shoot a third time and aim carefully between the eyes.

That process has to be trained and the second day of the class trains it.

The first day of the class goes over various laws and scenarios.

People who think they don't need any training are foolish. But a lot of people seem to think they do not.

Many states allow open carry without training, although most states allow concealed carry only with a training class. One single training class is not as good as taking the class over periodically, say every year or two at least.

The obligation is the practice and get training updates, and to be always cautious and careful.

It is also not a license to be Rambo. The cops would prefer that you call-in situations and observe, not interdict. It is their job to interdict. In the case of your own self and your family that is when you are licensed to interdict against a bad guy.

... my 2 cents.

 

[yiostheoy]

I think we can all agree that it is perfectly reasonable and socially, morally, and ethically acceptable to want to protect your family from harm. Can't we?

Is it ok that drug dealers and gang bangers feel the same way? Gotta protect the family and turf.

You should not violate someone else's turf. That means don't drive down the dope dealers' street. Don't walk down their street either. If you are there to buy dope then buy your dope and get the heck outta there fast. Good luck with the cops. If you are addicted to dope you will be risking arrest. Then there goes your CCW license. Otherwise you should have no interactions with dope dealers.

 

[yiostheoy]

I think we can all agree that it is perfectly reasonable and socially, morally, and ethically acceptable to want to protect your family from harm. Can't we?

Is it ok that drug dealers and gang bangers feel the same way? Gotta protect the family and turf.

Are you really trying to make an equivalency between a drug or turf war with protecting your family in your own home?

Situational awareness.

 

[yiostheoy]

in 35 years i needed a gun due to another human being...one time...only one time...but i was damn glad to have it the one time i needed it...

<---well armed liberal

For me it was several times at night regarding parking lot burglars.

And one time on the subway when I needed it but did not have it.