Compulsory Health Insurance

[namvet]

so if your imprisoned how long ???? and the fine????

 

[Againsheila]

A lot of people seem to have especially strong opposition to requiring people to carry health insurance. Opposition based on principal I understand. It's just one more governmental encroachment on individual liberty. But from a practical standpoint, I don't really see why this is such a big deal (IMO the public option is a far worse idea).

What is the difference between a law that mandates you buy health insurance and a law that mandates you pay taxes to cover your own health insurance (and likely other's too)?

We've got a law that mandates you have car insurance. Millions of people can't afford it and drive without it, hence those WITH car insurance end up paying extra for "uninsured motorist protection".

What makes you think a law regarding health insurance will be any different?

 

[ThePickledPunk]

So, let me get this straight. Because someone without insurance may or may not end up with unpaid medical bills- government should remove the choice of paying for insurance over say, education, from the individual, ostensibly to protect others from being faced with higher costs.... so why limit this to insurance? This seems like a great argument to have government take over all industry....

 

[ThePickledPunk]

A lot of people seem to have especially strong opposition to requiring people to carry health insurance. Opposition based on principal I understand. It's just one more governmental encroachment on individual liberty. But from a practical standpoint, I don't really see why this is such a big deal (IMO the public option is a far worse idea).

What is the difference between a law that mandates you buy health insurance and a law that mandates you pay taxes to cover your own health insurance (and likely other's too)?

Simple answer....

You only are forced to pay taxes if you opt to have an income.

FOr the first time in our history, you are forced by government to buy something the very second you are born....and this mandate is with you for your entire life.

There is absolutely no option....no choice.....and it will lead to other choices lost as time goes on.

It is not about healthcare.......Conservatives are not against the healthcare part.......it is about government mandates.

Children wouldn't be forced to pay for health care...but their parents may be. Seems like a cons dream.

Or their more affluent neighbors

 

[Againsheila]

I think we need to nationalize the insurance companies, make them all non-profit with a cap on the top salaries. Any extra money they take in should be redistributed to the policy holders at the end of the year like USAA does.

We need to change the law and allow hospitals to purchase their supplies outside the medical field. Why should they pay $20 for a small bottle of Tylenol when they can get a big one at Costco for $5?

Hospitals should also be non-profit. Only instead of putting all that extra money into building private wings, they should be forced to put at least 1/2 of it back into the hospital to lower the bills on the incoming patients, or redistribute it to those that paid too much for their treatment in the first place.

The say for treatment should be up to the doctor's and their patients, NOT the insurance companies.

Years ago I was in the hospital for a bad back. At first they shot me up with all kinds of drugs saying "We're going to give you enough painkiller that you can get up and walk out of here."

I asked "And what happens when I can't get up in the morning?"

"We'll deal with that when the time comes". Yeah sure, like they were going to be in my bedroom when I woke up in the morning. Thankfully my sister is an RN and came in and looked at the chart. She told them "You've already given her enough to knock out an elephant, if she still can't move, more isn't gonna change anything". They'd done xrays and found nothing and thought it was just muscle spasms which I will admit I suffer from. Thankfully my sister forced them to admit me and do a cat scan in the morning where they discovered I had a swollen disc. Apparently, insurance companies don't pay for treatment for muscle spasms but they will for a swollen disc. Even so, everyday the insurance company was saying they were going to refuse to pay for another day, and I just asked them were they gonna pay for the ambulance to take me home, because I still couldn't walk. It took me a week in the hospital before I could walk with a walker and many weeks before I got well enough to walk without the walker. I felt the insurance company made things worse, not better for me.

 

[Oldandtired]

Children wouldn't be forced to pay for health care...but their parents may be. Seems like a cons dream.

Mandate...children will be mandated to be covered at a cost.....first time in our history ANYONE will be madated BY GOVERNMENT to spend money.....without any option whatsoever.

Not really. If you are homeless you are subject to arrest.

And you have the choice to use a homeless shelter.....you are NOT mandated to pay money for shelter.

You can do your best to punch holes in what I am saying...but you can not.

This is the first time in our history that an individual is mandated to purchase soemthing...a mandate that is levied the second they are born and carried through to the day that they die....with the only choice being to leave America....and that choice does not come into play until they are 18 years of age.

Are we ready for such a precedent to be set?

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Children wouldn't be forced to pay for health care...but their parents may be. Seems like a cons dream.

Mandate...children will be mandated to be covered at a cost.....first time in our history ANYONE will be madated BY GOVERNMENT to spend money.....without any option whatsoever.

Not really. If you are homeless you are subject to arrest.

You make a great case for a program that gives housing to the indigent at taxpayer expense.

 

[Oldandtired]

Look at it this way...

The only other time Government had mandated something was the draft.

How well did that go over?

But this is mandating ALL...and mandating that ALL that can, spend money.

Very dangerous precedent indeed.

 

[Ravi]

Mandate...children will be mandated to be covered at a cost.....first time in our history ANYONE will be madated BY GOVERNMENT to spend money.....without any option whatsoever.

Not really. If you are homeless you are subject to arrest.

And you have the choice to use a homeless shelter.....you are NOT mandated to pay money for shelter.

You can do your best to punch holes in what I am saying...but you can not.

This is the first time in our history that an individual is mandated to purchase soemthing...a mandate that is levied the second they are born and carried through to the day that they die....with the only choice being to leave America....and that choice does not come into play until they are 18 years of age.

Are we ready for such a precedent to be set?

If you don't have money to purchase insurance you can use Medicaid...that's not going to change. You can't get money out of a homeless person. I really think you're going overboard. We are mandated to do all kinds of things.

 

[Oldandtired]

Not really. If you are homeless you are subject to arrest.

And you have the choice to use a homeless shelter.....you are NOT mandated to pay money for shelter.

You can do your best to punch holes in what I am saying...but you can not.

This is the first time in our history that an individual is mandated to purchase soemthing...a mandate that is levied the second they are born and carried through to the day that they die....with the only choice being to leave America....and that choice does not come into play until they are 18 years of age.

Are we ready for such a precedent to be set?

If you don't have money to purchase insurance you can use Medicaid...that's not going to change. You can't get money out of a homeless person. I really think you're going overboard. We are mandated to do all kinds of things.

You are tossing "income" into this. That is irrelevant. Who are you to determine if my income is enough for me to secure a safe life for myself where I can also buy health insurance? WHo are you to determine whether or not I am concerned about losing my job and FOOD is more impoortant to me than healthcare?

And please...offer me ONE SINGLE GOVERNMENT MANDATE that forces me to spend my money.

NAME ONE...dont simply say there are many.

 

[amrchaos]

Look at it this way...

The only other time Government had mandated something was the draft.

How well did that go over?

But this is mandating ALL...and mandating that ALL that can, spend money.

Very dangerous precedent indeed.

The first mandate created by any government is taxes.

Of course, it is possible to fund a small government without taxes. But this is a really really small government that only an anarchist could love.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Not really. If you are homeless you are subject to arrest.

And you have the choice to use a homeless shelter.....you are NOT mandated to pay money for shelter.

You can do your best to punch holes in what I am saying...but you can not.

This is the first time in our history that an individual is mandated to purchase soemthing...a mandate that is levied the second they are born and carried through to the day that they die....with the only choice being to leave America....and that choice does not come into play until they are 18 years of age.

Are we ready for such a precedent to be set?

If you don't have money to purchase insurance you can use Medicaid...that's not going to change. You can't get money out of a homeless person. I really think you're going overboard. We are mandated to do all kinds of things.

And the left would like to see even more government control over individual choices....

 

[nodoginnafight]

And please...offer me ONE SINGLE GOVERNMENT MANDATE that forces me to spend my money.

Social Security

 

[Oddball]

Look at it this way...

The only other time Government had mandated something was the draft.

How well did that go over?

But this is mandating ALL...and mandating that ALL that can, spend money.

Very dangerous precedent indeed.

The first mandate created by any government is taxes.

Of course, it is possible to fund a small government without taxes. But this is a really really small government that only an anarchist could love.

You can get around many/most taxes by not participating in the taxed activity. This is one of the salient points here.

Please try to keep up.

 

[Oldandtired]

And please...offer me ONE SINGLE GOVERNMENT MANDATE that forces me to spend my money.

Social Security

Nope. I can opt to not work.
Next?

 

[Oldandtired]

Look at it this way...

The only other time Government had mandated something was the draft.

How well did that go over?

But this is mandating ALL...and mandating that ALL that can, spend money.

Very dangerous precedent indeed.

The first mandate created by any government is taxes.

Of course, it is possible to fund a small government without taxes. But this is a really really small government that only an anarchist could love.

Nope. I can opt to not work.
Keep on trying...you will not find a single thing.

THIS is a first. no way around it....you MUST be insured.

 

[namvet]

if you don't buy it then its a 250K fine and up to 5 years in the pen.

 

[Oddball]

And please...offer me ONE SINGLE GOVERNMENT MANDATE that forces me to spend my money.

Social Security

Socialist Insecurity is still voluntary.

Although it's made almost impossible to earn a living without signing up, it's still voluntary.

http://www.truthsetsusfree.com/SocSecVoluntary.pdf

 

[Oldandtired]

if you don't buy it then its a 250K fine and up to 5 years in the pen.

Incorrect...If you do not report yourself as one who refuses to buy insurance, and thus not pay the penalty, you are subject to a 250,000 fine and up to 5 years....

And wait until you see the COP clause that will NEED to be put into it....

COP? Citizens on Patrol.....offered incentives to report those that refuse to insure themselves.

It will get quite ugly.

 

[nodoginnafight]

And please...offer me ONE SINGLE GOVERNMENT MANDATE that forces me to spend my money.

Social Security

Nope. I can opt to not work.
Next?

yeah - right