Companies do not pay taxes

[akelch]

I understand your concerns about money in politics. I too have the same concerns, though I see both sides exploiting the poor and siding with big business. Both try and force their values on the American people. I see no difference between supporting the right to bare arms and the right to marry anyone you choose to. But these are personal choices that individuals make and these rights of the individuals have been attacked by both sides.

Back to taxes, there is no better tax system that I have found that eliminates the class warfare card that politicians play and provides a level playing field for every citizen as the Fair Tax. The tax IS progressive depending on the amount of money you spend. With the prebate the poor would pay very little if any taxes. Best of all it does not pick winners or losers (like our current politicians like to do with the income tax) everyone is treated the same.

Removing our current tax code and replacing it with the Fair Tax, in my opinion, would be the single best thing this country can do to help our economy, create jobs, help the middle class, create more revenue for the government, and give back to Americans want has been taken from them.....freedom and liberity.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

what is happening to the middle class in our country.

simple:
1) liberal unions drove 30 million jobs offshore

2) liberal corporate taxes drove 10 million jobs off shore

3) liberal family values: divorce abortion welfare and feminism destroyed the America family creating 10 million poor single mothers

4) liberal deficits made it possible for Japan and China to buy our debt rather than our products!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It is my belief that our politics are owned by corporations and the very very rich.

too stupid and 100% liberal given that these are generally conservative groups, yet the country is far far more liberal than ever with the most liberal president in our history and most government spending in history.

If this is not liberal nirvanna then you are Joe Stalin and need another 5 years plan to make up for the failure of the first 5 year plan.

 

[Rshermr]

I understand your concerns about money in politics. I too have the same concerns, though I see both sides exploiting the poor and siding with big business. Both try and force their values on the American people. I see no difference between supporting the right to bare arms and the right to marry anyone you choose to. But these are personal choices that individuals make and these rights of the individuals have been attacked by both sides.

Back to taxes, there is no better tax system that I have found that eliminates the class warfare card that politicians play and provides a level playing field for every citizen as the Fair Tax. The tax IS progressive depending on the amount of money you spend. With the prebate the poor would pay very little if any taxes. Best of all it does not pick winners or losers (like our current politicians like to do with the income tax) everyone is treated the same.

Removing our current tax code and replacing it with the Fair Tax, in my opinion, would be the single best thing this country can do to help our economy, create jobs, help the middle class, create more revenue for the government, and give back to Americans want has been taken from them.....freedom and liberity.

You will not get the Fair Tax. Just not in the cards. But we may be able to do something about money in politics. If you got the fair tax, and do noting about money in politics, then the wealthy will still own our politics, and they will pay as little as their tools, also known as politicians, can get code changed to allow them to scam the system. It has always been this way, and always will be.

 

[akelch]

The Fair tax can and will limit the money in politics by limiting politicians ability to handout tax cuts to businesses. They won't need them.
It won't solve all the corruption in Washington but it does create a good foundation.

Curious...if you were one of these corrupt politicians...how would you work around the Fair Tax to give favors to your corporate friends?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

A company can't pass of a tax hike in higher prices unless its customers are willing to pay those higher prices, no more than I can pass off a tax hike on my income to the companies unless they are willing to sell at a lower price.

too stupid and 100% liberal if a company can't pass on its tax cost and raw material cost it goes bankrupt

What do you mean "if" ? They always pass it on in your pedestrian world, the consumer apparently has no say in the matter.

 

[akelch]

A company can't pass of a tax hike in higher prices unless its customers are willing to pay those higher prices, no more than I can pass off a tax hike on my income to the companies unless they are willing to sell at a lower price.

too stupid and 100% liberal if a company can't pass on its tax cost and raw material cost it goes bankrupt

What do you mean "if" ? They always pass it on in your pedestrian world, the consumer apparently has no say in the matter.

Now you understand how corporate and income taxes manipulate the free market. If taxes can not be passed down to the consumer then that company will go out of business and prices will automatically rise.

 

[Rshermr]

The Fair tax can and will limit the money in politics by limiting politicians ability to handout tax cuts to businesses. They won't need them.
It won't solve all the corruption in Washington but it does create a good foundation.

Curious...if you were one of these corrupt politicians...how would you work around the Fair Tax to give favors to your corporate friends?

First, as the analysis that I have shown proves, the fair tax is a gift to the rich. Second, the Fair Tax does not limit the powers of congress. Congress simply does what it has always done. It legislates loopholes. Thirdly, there is no limit to the desires of the wealthy to be more so in the Fair Tax. And the wealthy, as they have always done, will pay congress to get what they want.
And that would be more tax loopholes. Why do you think that the most corrupt congressmen in the history of the known world support the Fair Tax? Conservative organizations all line up with making the wealthy more wealthy. Do you suppose it is coincidence that those same organizations are paid by the very wealthy?

 

[Gadawg73]

The Fair tax can and will limit the money in politics by limiting politicians ability to handout tax cuts to businesses. They won't need them.
It won't solve all the corruption in Washington but it does create a good foundation.

Curious...if you were one of these corrupt politicians...how would you work around the Fair Tax to give favors to your corporate friends?

First, as the analysis that I have shown proves, the fair tax is a gift to the rich. Second, the Fair Tax does not limit the powers of congress. Congress simply does what it has always done. It legislates loopholes. Thirdly, there is no limit to the desires of the wealthy to be more so in the Fair Tax. And the wealthy, as they have always done, will pay congress to get what they want.
And that would be more tax loopholes. Why do you think that the most corrupt congressmen in the history of the known world support the Fair Tax? Conservative organizations all line up with making the wealthy more wealthy. Do you suppose it is coincidence that those same organizations are paid by the very wealthy?

Fair Tax will have the rich paying more tax.
Rich put their investment dollars now in tax free investments.
Fair Tax takes tax policy out of the hands of politicians.
Everyone pays the same % under the Fair Tax and the first 40K is tax free with the prebate.
As hard as you want to spin it with your wealthy BS you have no case.

 

[Rshermr]

The Fair tax can and will limit the money in politics by limiting politicians ability to handout tax cuts to businesses. They won't need them.
It won't solve all the corruption in Washington but it does create a good foundation.

Curious...if you were one of these corrupt politicians...how would you work around the Fair Tax to give favors to your corporate friends?

First, as the analysis that I have shown proves, the fair tax is a gift to the rich. Second, the Fair Tax does not limit the powers of congress. Congress simply does what it has always done. It legislates loopholes. Thirdly, there is no limit to the desires of the wealthy to be more so in the Fair Tax. And the wealthy, as they have always done, will pay congress to get what they want.
And that would be more tax loopholes. Why do you think that the most corrupt congressmen in the history of the known world support the Fair Tax? Conservative organizations all line up with making the wealthy more wealthy. Do you suppose it is coincidence that those same organizations are paid by the very wealthy?

Fair Tax will have the rich paying more tax.
Rich put their investment dollars now in tax free investments.
Fair Tax takes tax policy out of the hands of politicians.
Everyone pays the same % under the Fair Tax and the first 40K is tax free with the prebate.
As hard as you want to spin it with your wealthy BS you have no case.

And your impartial proof is where? Do you think your opinion has some real value. Or that mine has?
Perhaps you have a link that what you say has validity. Then it would be of some interest.
Here are some links to what has formed my beliefs. Which is why what I say is not BS.

With the prebate program in effect, those earning less than $15,000 per year would see their share of the federal tax burden drop from -0.7 percent to -6.3 percent. Of course, if the poorest Americans are paying less under the FairTax plan, then someone else pays more. As it turns out, according to the Treasury Department, “someone else” is everybody earning between $15,000 and $200,000 per year. The chart below compares the share of the federal tax burden for different income groups under the current system and under the FairTax. Those in the highest and the lowest brackets will see their share decrease, while everyone else will see their share of taxes increase.
FactCheck.org: Unspinning the FairTax

Perry Tax, Flat Tax, Fair Tax, VAT (Tax): What's the Difference? - Derek Thompson - The Atlantic

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

too stupid and 100% liberal if a company can't pass on its tax cost and raw material cost it goes bankrupt

What do you mean "if" ? They always pass it on in your pedestrian world, the consumer apparently has no say in the matter.

Now you understand how corporate and income taxes manipulate the free market. If taxes can not be passed down to the consumer then that company will go out of business and prices will automatically rise.

If personal taxes cannot be passed to business then people will go bankrupt and prices will automatically fall.

 

[akelch]

First, as the analysis that I have shown proves, the fair tax is a gift to the rich. Second, the Fair Tax does not limit the powers of congress. Congress simply does what it has always done. It legislates loopholes. Thirdly, there is no limit to the desires of the wealthy to be more so in the Fair Tax. And the wealthy, as they have always done, will pay congress to get what they want.
And that would be more tax loopholes. Why do you think that the most corrupt congressmen in the history of the known world support the Fair Tax? Conservative organizations all line up with making the wealthy more wealthy. Do you suppose it is coincidence that those same organizations are paid by the very wealthy?

Fair Tax will have the rich paying more tax.
Rich put their investment dollars now in tax free investments.
Fair Tax takes tax policy out of the hands of politicians.
Everyone pays the same % under the Fair Tax and the first 40K is tax free with the prebate.
As hard as you want to spin it with your wealthy BS you have no case.

And your impartial proof is where? Do you think your opinion has some real value. Or that mine has?
Perhaps you have a link that what you say has validity. Then it would be of some interest.
Here are some links to what has formed my beliefs. Which is why what I say is not BS.

With the prebate program in effect, those earning less than $15,000 per year would see their share of the federal tax burden drop from -0.7 percent to -6.3 percent. Of course, if the poorest Americans are paying less under the FairTax plan, then someone else pays more. As it turns out, according to the Treasury Department, “someone else” is everybody earning between $15,000 and $200,000 per year. The chart below compares the share of the federal tax burden for different income groups under the current system and under the FairTax. Those in the highest and the lowest brackets will see their share decrease, while everyone else will see their share of taxes increase.
FactCheck.org: Unspinning the FairTax

Perry Tax, Flat Tax, Fair Tax, VAT (Tax): What's the Difference? - Derek Thompson - The Atlantic

Report by the Beacon Hill Institute

http://www.beaconhill.org/FairTax2007/EconomicEffectsFTBHICGEModel4-30-07.pdf

 

[akelch]

Let get this clear..there is no perfect tax system! I can punch holes in any tax system. The question is what is the BEST system that does the least amount of harm to the economy, raises enough revenue for the government, has the lowest amount of administrative cost, and treats everyone as fair as possible?

Compared to our current system, the fair tax (in my opinion) is the winner.

Maybe you can give us a alternative then we can compare them?

 

[Rshermr]

Let get this clear..there is no perfect tax system! I can punch holes in any tax system. The question is what is the BEST system that does the least amount of harm to the economy, raises enough revenue for the government, has the lowest amount of administrative cost, and treats everyone as fair as possible?

Compared to our current system, the fair tax (in my opinion) is the winner.

Therein lies the problem. It is IN YOU OPINION. So, duly noted. Next.

 

[akelch]

Let get this clear..there is no perfect tax system! I can punch holes in any tax system. The question is what is the BEST system that does the least amount of harm to the economy, raises enough revenue for the government, has the lowest amount of administrative cost, and treats everyone as fair as possible?

Compared to our current system, the fair tax (in my opinion) is the winner.

Therein lies the problem. It is IN YOU OPINION. So, duly noted. Next.

What is better?

 

[Rshermr]

Fair Tax will have the rich paying more tax.
Rich put their investment dollars now in tax free investments.
Fair Tax takes tax policy out of the hands of politicians.
Everyone pays the same % under the Fair Tax and the first 40K is tax free with the prebate.
As hard as you want to spin it with your wealthy BS you have no case.

And your impartial proof is where? Do you think your opinion has some real value. Or that mine has?
Perhaps you have a link that what you say has validity. Then it would be of some interest.
Here are some links to what has formed my beliefs. Which is why what I say is not BS.

With the prebate program in effect, those earning less than $15,000 per year would see their share of the federal tax burden drop from -0.7 percent to -6.3 percent. Of course, if the poorest Americans are paying less under the FairTax plan, then someone else pays more. As it turns out, according to the Treasury Department, “someone else” is everybody earning between $15,000 and $200,000 per year. The chart below compares the share of the federal tax burden for different income groups under the current system and under the FairTax. Those in the highest and the lowest brackets will see their share decrease, while everyone else will see their share of taxes increase.
FactCheck.org: Unspinning the FairTax

Perry Tax, Flat Tax, Fair Tax, VAT (Tax): What's the Difference? - Derek Thompson - The Atlantic

Report by the Beacon Hill Institute

http://www.beaconhill.org/FairTax2007/EconomicEffectsFTBHICGEModel4-30-07.pdf

"NThe Beacon Hill Institute (BHI) is the research arm of the Department of Economics at Suffolk University in Boston. It was founded in 1991 by businessman and Republican politician Ray Shamie. BHI describes itself as being "grounded in the principles of limited government, fiscal responsibility and free markets.ice. You picked a study done by a right wing think tank, founded and supported by conservatives."

"Funding[7]
Castle Rock Foundation (funded by the Coors family)
Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation"
Can not get more conservative than these funders.

Beacon Hill Institute - SourceWatch

If you are an independent thinking person, and you take this link and read about this think tank, you will understand why you would never use it as an independent source. But it is a good source if you would like to make your point.

 

[Koios]

I here a lot of talk about how companies and the rich should pay more in taxes. What many fail to understand is that all taxes are paid by the consumer. Any time taxes are raised on corporations they raise their prices or lay people off to compensate.
The same is true with income taxes. You raise the rich's income tax....they don't take this laying down. They make changes to their companies and portfolio which cost money to the companies thus they make changes to save money or they raise their prices.

So please stop debating about the income tax rates, capital gains tax, and payroll taxes, and start debating on how to get rid of them and put something else in its place that makes sense. Like a consumption tax.

Stepping off soap box......

Taxes DO derive from consumer spending. But C Corp taxes, and taxes on individuals that have S and LC corps never impact in the slightest the prices we pay for stuff.

In fact, the increased fees and taxes at state level, which in fact drive up the prices on stuff we buy, have risen dramatically as state make up the difference due to less being paid back to the states vis a vis tax cuts, which were retarded to begin with, since it "fixed" a problem we didn't have: surplus revenue, needed to pay down the debt. We'd hoped for it for nearly two decades, and once we had it, Bush 43 pissed it away.

RE

TAR

DED!!!!!

(Or, quintessentially "Republican.")

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

(Or, quintessentially "Republican.")

what a surprise you got 100% backwards once again

it is Republicans who sign the pledge, not Democrats!!

 

[Koios]

(Or, quintessentially "Republican.")

what a surprise you got 100% backwards once again

it is Republicans who sign the pledge, not Democrats!!

Yeah; but they just signed it. You know: get a pen, and ink the doc?

And here's the deal, they're running from it like crack dealers from the DEA raid.

So not just abject fucking retards, but less integrity than fucking gold fish.

Thanks for reminding me. I'd forgotten about it and needed a good belly laugh.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

what a surprise you got 100% backwards once again

it is Republicans who sign the pledge, not Democrats!![/QUOTE]

Yeah; but they just signed it. You know: get a pen, and ink the doc?

and they have introduced 30 Balanced budget Amendments since Jefferson's first and voted 100% against the stimulus and Obamacare.

100% of the energy for freedom resides in the Republican Party, obvious to all but perfect idiots, while liberals openly and treasonously oppose this most basic of American principles. Sorry








And here's the deal, they're running from it like crack dealers from the DEA raid.

So not just abject fucking retards, but less integrity than fucking gold fish.

Thanks for reminding me. I'd forgotten about it and needed a good belly laugh.[/QUOTE]