Companies do not pay taxes

[Mr. H.]

Look, I am not saying that in all conditions there are no companies that are not close enough to the edge that they may blame taxes as their problem. But, since I think we are talking about the dem proposal, I am a bit surprised that you would say that would push you over the edge.

So, maybe you can tell me when, in a bad economy, raising taxes has hurt unemployment Then you can talk about bitch slapping. Because I do not think you can.

As I have said in all my posts, I disagree that when taxes are raised on certain corporations that they have NO means of raising their prices to the consumer. In fact, there are certain corporations that simply can not pass along ANY of their costs to the consumer.

Example?

Farmer Joe sells his grain to the local elevator and is paid market price.

Farmer Joe's taxes go up. He can't sell his grain for more than market price because his taxes went up. He can't sell his grain for more than market price no matter how much ANY of his expenses go up.

 

[Gadawg73]

Corporations do not pay taxes on their revenues. If they do it is state and local and that is also built into it and passed on to the consumer. The consumer pays that tax at the sale.
Corporations pay taxes ON THEIR PROFITS and the profit is built into the price of the goods and services they sell.
To pass on to the consumer who pays the taxes.
All I do is collect it and pass it on.

 

[Mr. H.]

Corporations do not pay taxes on their revenues. If they do it is state and local and that is also built into it and passed on to the consumer. The consumer pays that tax at the sale.
Corporations pay taxes ON THEIR PROFITS and the profit is built into the price of the goods and services they sell.
To pass on to the consumer who pays the taxes.
All I do is collect it and pass it on.

What about Farmer Joe?

 

[akelch]

As I have said in all my posts, I disagree that when taxes are raised on certain corporations that they have NO means of raising their prices to the consumer. In fact, there are certain corporations that simply can not pass along ANY of their costs to the consumer.

Example?

Farmer Joe sells his grain to the local elevator and is paid market price.

Farmer Joe's taxes go up. He can't sell his grain for more than market price because his taxes went up. He can't sell his grain for more than market price no matter how much ANY of his expenses go up.

Good example!

Then the farmer will have to cut cost or go out of business. If other farmers cannot bare the cost of the tax increase then they too will go out of business. Thus decreasing the supply of grain...in turn grain prices raise and there will be fewer suppliers.

Then the Consumer pays higher cost.

That is why singling out a certain industry for tax increases never helps the consumer.

 

[Mr. H.]

Example?

Farmer Joe sells his grain to the local elevator and is paid market price.

Farmer Joe's taxes go up. He can't sell his grain for more than market price because his taxes went up. He can't sell his grain for more than market price no matter how much ANY of his expenses go up.

Good example!

Then the farmer will have to cut cost or go out of business. If other farmers cannot bare the cost of the tax increase then they too will go out of business. Thus decreasing the supply of grain...in turn grain prices raise and there will be fewer suppliers.

Then the Consumer pays higher cost.

That is why singling out a certain industry for tax increases never helps the consumer.

I don't fully understand the Farm Program, but it is obvious that there are numerous "safety nets" to protect agricultural entities from financial hardship under various scenarios.

On the other hand- let's look at "Joe the Oilman". He also sells his product at market price and has no mechanism for passing along increases in cost.

There are no "safety nets" as there are in agriculture. During the late 90's when crude prices hit $8/barrel, thousands of oil companies went bankrupt and tens of thousands of industry workers lost their jobs.

 

[akelch]

Farmer Joe sells his grain to the local elevator and is paid market price.

Farmer Joe's taxes go up. He can't sell his grain for more than market price because his taxes went up. He can't sell his grain for more than market price no matter how much ANY of his expenses go up.

Good example!

Then the farmer will have to cut cost or go out of business. If other farmers cannot bare the cost of the tax increase then they too will go out of business. Thus decreasing the supply of grain...in turn grain prices raise and there will be fewer suppliers.

Then the Consumer pays higher cost.

That is why singling out a certain industry for tax increases never helps the consumer.

I don't fully understand the Farm Program, but it is obvious that there are numerous "safety nets" to protect agricultural entities from financial hardship under various scenarios.

On the other hand- let's look at "Joe the Oilman". He also sells his product at market price and has no mechanism for passing along increases in cost.

There are no "safety nets" as there are in agriculture. During the late 90's when crude prices hit $8/barrel, thousands of oil companies went bankrupt and tens of thousands of industry workers lost their jobs.

The oil companies reduce production to same money...in turn the supply goes down. Then prices go up.

It's call the free market....and yes taxes can make a big impact.

 

[Gadawg73]

And you need a good bitch slappin'.

Think about it. There are corporations that have absolutely no means at their disposal to pass along ANY increases in expenses- taxes included- along to their consumers.

You have no clue about business. What means does it take to raise your prices?
If you do not you go bankrupt.
Hint: businesses have to make a profit.

I've been CEO of our corporation for over 35 years.
I do have a clue about business, that's why we're still around.

Then why did you avoid my question?
And you must know that your customers through the fees you charge them are the ones paying your taxes.
Without their $$ generating your revenue where else would you ever get any $$$ to pay taxes or any expense?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

What many fail to understand is that all taxes are paid by the consumer. Any time taxes are raised on corporations they raise their prices or lay people off to compensate.

Then they should have no problem with taxes on them being raised, should they?

 

[Mr. H.]

You have no clue about business. What means does it take to raise your prices?
If you do not you go bankrupt.
Hint: businesses have to make a profit.

I've been CEO of our corporation for over 35 years.
I do have a clue about business, that's why we're still around.

Then why did you avoid my question?
And you must know that your customers through the fees you charge them are the ones paying your taxes.
Without their $$ generating your revenue where else would you ever get any $$$ to pay taxes or any expense?

Read further in the thread and you'll get my drift.

I'm unable to charge my "customers" fees. Revenues for the payment of expenses and taxes come from sales. My expenses (or taxes) go up, I have no recourse.

 

[akelch]

What many fail to understand is that all taxes are paid by the consumer. Any time taxes are raised on corporations they raise their prices or lay people off to compensate.

Then they should have no problem with taxes on them being raised, should they?

They don't ....but I do because I pay for it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I here a lot of talk about how companies and the rich should pay more in taxes. What many fail to understand is that all taxes are paid by the consumer. Any time taxes are raised on corporations they raise their prices or lay people off to compensate.
The same is true with income taxes. You raise the rich's income tax....they don't take this laying down. They make changes to their companies and portfolio which cost money to the companies thus they make changes to save money or they raise their prices.

So please stop debating about the income tax rates, capital gains tax, and payroll taxes, and start debating on how to get rid of them and put something else in its place that makes sense. Like a consumption tax.

Stepping off soap box......

You've got it backwards. Its actually individuals that do not pay taxes. Any increase in taxation on my income means I just lower the price I'm willing to pay companies for their products, I pass on the cost to the companies.


BTW the above statement is just as retarded as yours. A company can't pass of a tax hike in higher prices unless its customers are willing to pay those higher prices, no more than I can pass off a tax hike on my income to the companies unless they are willing to sell at a lower price.

 

[Gadawg73]

I've been CEO of our corporation for over 35 years.
I do have a clue about business, that's why we're still around.

Then why did you avoid my question?
And you must know that your customers through the fees you charge them are the ones paying your taxes.
Without their $$ generating your revenue where else would you ever get any $$$ to pay taxes or any expense?

Read further in the thread and you'll get my drift.

I'm unable to charge my "customers" fees. Revenues for the payment of expenses and taxes come from sales. My expenses (or taxes) go up, I have no recourse.

I read it.
And you never know what your profit margin is on those sales?
Give me a break.
If you have been in business that long my man you know exactly or very close what your profit margin is on each sale and built into that is what you know your taxes will be.
Do not sit there and tell me you do not have a good idea what your taxes are on each sale and have that figured into your pricing BEFORE YOU SELL IT.
That is how it is done and that is how YOU DO it if you are in business for that long.
Unless you have a rich uncle.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

What many fail to understand is that all taxes are paid by the consumer. Any time taxes are raised on corporations they raise their prices or lay people off to compensate.

Then they should have no problem with taxes on them being raised, should they?

They don't ....but I do because I pay for it.

Right they just spend zillions every year lobbying for lower taxes even though it doesn't do them any good.

 

[Gadawg73]

I here a lot of talk about how companies and the rich should pay more in taxes. What many fail to understand is that all taxes are paid by the consumer. Any time taxes are raised on corporations they raise their prices or lay people off to compensate.
The same is true with income taxes. You raise the rich's income tax....they don't take this laying down. They make changes to their companies and portfolio which cost money to the companies thus they make changes to save money or they raise their prices.

So please stop debating about the income tax rates, capital gains tax, and payroll taxes, and start debating on how to get rid of them and put something else in its place that makes sense. Like a consumption tax.

Stepping off soap box......

You've got it backwards. Its actually individuals that do not pay taxes. Any increase in taxation on my income means I just lower the price I'm willing to pay companies for their products, I pass on the cost to the companies.


BTW the above statement is just as retarded as yours. A company can't pass of a tax hike in higher prices unless its customers are willing to pay those higher prices, no more than I can pass off a tax hike on my income to the companies unless they are willing to sell at a lower price.

Roll me one out of your bag.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

If you have been in business that long my man you know exactly or very close what your profit margin is on each sale and built into that is what you know your taxes will be.

If you have any overhead expenses at all, profit margin on an individual sale is not an easy number to define. Say its a hot day and I keep my store air conditioned. If customer X spends 30 minutes in my shop deciding to buy product A, and then buys it, and then customer Y spends 5 minutes in my shop and buys product A, the exact profit margin on product A will be higher for customer Y than customer X because the cost to keep customer Y at a comfortable temperature during their time in my shop is higher. Or maybe its not, maybe the temperature outside went up 10 degrees before customer Y walked in. Or perhaps customer Y used the bathroom but customer X did not, and really customer Y cost me more overhead. But before I can figure out which one gave me the highest margin, hopefully customer Z will walk in.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I here a lot of talk about how companies and the rich should pay more in taxes. What many fail to understand is that all taxes are paid by the consumer. Any time taxes are raised on corporations they raise their prices or lay people off to compensate.
The same is true with income taxes. You raise the rich's income tax....they don't take this laying down. They make changes to their companies and portfolio which cost money to the companies thus they make changes to save money or they raise their prices.

So please stop debating about the income tax rates, capital gains tax, and payroll taxes, and start debating on how to get rid of them and put something else in its place that makes sense. Like a consumption tax.

Stepping off soap box......

You've got it backwards. Its actually individuals that do not pay taxes. Any increase in taxation on my income means I just lower the price I'm willing to pay companies for their products, I pass on the cost to the companies.


BTW the above statement is just as retarded as yours. A company can't pass of a tax hike in higher prices unless its customers are willing to pay those higher prices, no more than I can pass off a tax hike on my income to the companies unless they are willing to sell at a lower price.

Roll me one out of your bag.

I realize the concept that buyers and sellers set the prices they are willing to buy and sell at is difficult for you to grasp, but I doubt smoking pot would help.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

A company can't pass of a tax hike in higher prices unless its customers are willing to pay those higher prices, no more than I can pass off a tax hike on my income to the companies unless they are willing to sell at a lower price.

too stupid and 100% liberal if a company can't pass on its tax cost and raw material cost it goes bankrupt

We have a business tax only to pander to the pure ignorance of liberals. Even as the tax drives companies and jobs offshore liberals are wedded to it out of an irrational desire to punish business, exactly as Marx would have wanted.

 

[Mr. H.]

Then why did you avoid my question?
And you must know that your customers through the fees you charge them are the ones paying your taxes.
Without their $$ generating your revenue where else would you ever get any $$$ to pay taxes or any expense?

Read further in the thread and you'll get my drift.

I'm unable to charge my "customers" fees. Revenues for the payment of expenses and taxes come from sales. My expenses (or taxes) go up, I have no recourse.

I read it.
And you never know what your profit margin is on those sales?
Give me a break.
If you have been in business that long my man you know exactly or very close what your profit margin is on each sale and built into that is what you know your taxes will be.
Do not sit there and tell me you do not have a good idea what your taxes are on each sale and have that figured into your pricing BEFORE YOU SELL IT.
That is how it is done and that is how YOU DO it if you are in business for that long.
Unless you have a rich uncle.

Yes, and of course. BUT what I've been trying to say since this thread was started... I, as well as many other corporations, am NOT able to pass along ANY operational costs to the consumer. Not my tax cost, not my labor, overhead, materials, maintenance, utilities, etc.

That's generally how commodities work. Agriculture, oil, gas...

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

And you never know what your profit margin is on those sales?
Give me a break.

I guess he's never taken a course in what they call "cost accounting".

 

[akelch]

Read further in the thread and you'll get my drift.

I'm unable to charge my "customers" fees. Revenues for the payment of expenses and taxes come from sales. My expenses (or taxes) go up, I have no recourse.

I read it.
And you never know what your profit margin is on those sales?
Give me a break.
If you have been in business that long my man you know exactly or very close what your profit margin is on each sale and built into that is what you know your taxes will be.
Do not sit there and tell me you do not have a good idea what your taxes are on each sale and have that figured into your pricing BEFORE YOU SELL IT.
That is how it is done and that is how YOU DO it if you are in business for that long.
Unless you have a rich uncle.

Yes, and of course. BUT what I've been trying to say since this thread was started... I, as well as many other corporations, am NOT able to pass along ANY operational costs to the consumer. Not my tax cost, not my labor, overhead, materials, maintenance, utilities, etc.

That's generally how commodities work. Agriculture, oil, gas...

Understandable.... The taxes you can not pass along cuts into your profit, thus you may go out of business. So then you don't pay any taxes. The government loose revenue and prices raise on your product. Then the consumer pays more.

If companies can not make a profit when taxes raise, they go out of business.

That is why I hate our tax code. Businesses and workers should pay NO taxes. Get rid of the income and corp. taxes and replace it with a consumption tax.