Come on USMB: Do you really want the economy to "fail"?

[rdean]

I'm looking at all the good news from the Auto Industry and I'm amazed that Republicans did everything they could to make sure that industry was destroyed, even though that would mean all the millions of Americans that would be unemployed.

Not just the companies, but the suppliers. Even Chrysler, it's suppliers wouldn't have managed to stay in business with Ford and GM gone. It's possible with no reliable suppliers, Honda and foreign companies might have stopped production, not to mention the fact that with so many people out of work, no one could buy cars anyway.

Then there would be all the industries supplying raw materials. And all the local business. Everything from donut shops to malls. It all would have been gone.

Then, without any revenue, teachers, police, firefighters, and all the other people that are needed to keep a community going would have been laid off.

Remember, this was the Republican agenda. Let the Auto Industries fail.

GM just repaid another 11 billion which drops the governments share from 60% to 30%.

Kokomo had an unemployment rate of 20% and now it's 12%. That's an 8% drop.

Chrysler is proposing a 2 billion dollar upgrade investment with 600 million going to Illinois.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101124/OEM/101129945/1137

Come on USMB. Be honest. If Obama hadn't saved the auto industry, where would our economy be? Let's see how honest you can be. And if you feel we should be in a major depression, please explain why.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm looking at all the good news from the Auto Industry and I'm amazed that Republicans did everything they could to make sure that industry was destroyed, even though that would mean all the millions of Americans that would be unemployed.

Not just the companies, but the suppliers. Even Chrysler, it's suppliers wouldn't have managed to stay in business with Ford and GM gone. It's possible with no reliable suppliers, Honda and foreign companies might have stopped production, not to mention the fact that with so many people out of work, no one could buy cars anyway.

Then there would be all the industries supplying raw materials. And all the local business. Everything from donut shops to malls. It all would have been gone.

Then, without any revenue, teachers, police, firefighters, and all the other people that are needed to keep a community going would have been laid off.

Remember, this was the Republican agenda. Let the Auto Industries fail.

GM just repaid another 11 billion which drops the governments share from 60% to 30%.

Kokomo had an unemployment rate of 20% and now it's 12%. That's an 8% drop.

Chrysler is proposing a 2 billion dollar upgrade investment with 600 million going to Illinois.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101124/OEM/101129945/1137

Come on USMB. Be honest. If Obama hadn't saved the auto industry, where would our economy be? Let's see how honest you can be. And if you feel we should be in a major depression, please explain why.

No.

The agenda was to let the bankruptcy proceed legally, and not to toss secured creditors, like the many pension funds that lost money, and the middle class that depends on, be tossed aside in favor of politically powerful unions.

 

[rdean]

I'm looking at all the good news from the Auto Industry and I'm amazed that Republicans did everything they could to make sure that industry was destroyed, even though that would mean all the millions of Americans that would be unemployed.

Not just the companies, but the suppliers. Even Chrysler, it's suppliers wouldn't have managed to stay in business with Ford and GM gone. It's possible with no reliable suppliers, Honda and foreign companies might have stopped production, not to mention the fact that with so many people out of work, no one could buy cars anyway.

Then there would be all the industries supplying raw materials. And all the local business. Everything from donut shops to malls. It all would have been gone.

Then, without any revenue, teachers, police, firefighters, and all the other people that are needed to keep a community going would have been laid off.

Remember, this was the Republican agenda. Let the Auto Industries fail.

GM just repaid another 11 billion which drops the governments share from 60% to 30%.

Kokomo had an unemployment rate of 20% and now it's 12%. That's an 8% drop.

Chrysler is proposing a 2 billion dollar upgrade investment with 600 million going to Illinois.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101124/OEM/101129945/1137

Come on USMB. Be honest. If Obama hadn't saved the auto industry, where would our economy be? Let's see how honest you can be. And if you feel we should be in a major depression, please explain why.

No.

The agenda was to let the bankruptcy proceed legally, and not to toss secured creditors, like the many pension funds that lost money, and the middle class that depends on, be tossed aside in favor of politically powerful unions.

I hate to break the news to you, but the membership of those "unions" is made up of those "middle class" workers. Obviously, you don't belong to one.

Notice how you just said some bullshit without a link and some evidence? Just pulled out of thin air. As if it's "common knowledge", but without bothering to collect any "facts"?

The obvious question, with all those jobs gone, what would come next. "Something else"? Is that right wing plan? "Something else"?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm looking at all the good news from the Auto Industry and I'm amazed that Republicans did everything they could to make sure that industry was destroyed, even though that would mean all the millions of Americans that would be unemployed.

Not just the companies, but the suppliers. Even Chrysler, it's suppliers wouldn't have managed to stay in business with Ford and GM gone. It's possible with no reliable suppliers, Honda and foreign companies might have stopped production, not to mention the fact that with so many people out of work, no one could buy cars anyway.

Then there would be all the industries supplying raw materials. And all the local business. Everything from donut shops to malls. It all would have been gone.

Then, without any revenue, teachers, police, firefighters, and all the other people that are needed to keep a community going would have been laid off.

Remember, this was the Republican agenda. Let the Auto Industries fail.

GM just repaid another 11 billion which drops the governments share from 60% to 30%.

Kokomo had an unemployment rate of 20% and now it's 12%. That's an 8% drop.

Chrysler is proposing a 2 billion dollar upgrade investment with 600 million going to Illinois.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101124/OEM/101129945/1137

Come on USMB. Be honest. If Obama hadn't saved the auto industry, where would our economy be? Let's see how honest you can be. And if you feel we should be in a major depression, please explain why.

No.

The agenda was to let the bankruptcy proceed legally, and not to toss secured creditors, like the many pension funds that lost money, and the middle class that depends on, be tossed aside in favor of politically powerful unions.

I hate to break the news to you, but the membership of those "unions" is made up of those "middle class" workers. Obviously, you don't belong to one.

Notice how you just said some bullshit without a link and some evidence? Just pulled out of thin air. As if it's "common knowledge", but without bothering to collect any "facts"?

The obvious question, with all those jobs gone, what would come next. "Something else"? Is that right wing plan? "Something else"?

And the leadership of the unions are scamming them of their pension money, just like they scammed the unions that invested in GM and Chrysler. Politically connected unions took advantage of their power, and middle class workers suffered as a result. Why is it that you think the Democrats care more about the middle class than the Republicans when they continually display their willingness to ignore them in favor of votes?

I forgot you live in an alternate universe. Over here the Indiana State Pension fund getting screwed is common knowledge. Lots of teachers lost their retirement, even though bankruptcy law normally gives preference to secured creditors, not the unsecured creditors that got favorable, and illegal, treatment.

Retirees, Taxpayers Ripped Off to Subsidize UAW|OpenMarket.org

Since auto workers make anywhere from $58,000 to $83,000 an hour, depending on how you count their benefits, and teachers in Illinois make about half of that, i can see why Obama preferred to support the UAW, they have more money.

 

[william the wie]

Defending the GM bailout corruption scandal has got to be an all time low. Steal from the poor and give to the rich while claiming to do the opposite that's the Democratic ticket.

 

[code1211]

I'm looking at all the good news from the Auto Industry and I'm amazed that Republicans did everything they could to make sure that industry was destroyed, even though that would mean all the millions of Americans that would be unemployed.

Not just the companies, but the suppliers. Even Chrysler, it's suppliers wouldn't have managed to stay in business with Ford and GM gone. It's possible with no reliable suppliers, Honda and foreign companies might have stopped production, not to mention the fact that with so many people out of work, no one could buy cars anyway.

Then there would be all the industries supplying raw materials. And all the local business. Everything from donut shops to malls. It all would have been gone.

Then, without any revenue, teachers, police, firefighters, and all the other people that are needed to keep a community going would have been laid off.

Remember, this was the Republican agenda. Let the Auto Industries fail.

GM just repaid another 11 billion which drops the governments share from 60% to 30%.

Kokomo had an unemployment rate of 20% and now it's 12%. That's an 8% drop.

Chrysler is proposing a 2 billion dollar upgrade investment with 600 million going to Illinois.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101124/OEM/101129945/1137

Come on USMB. Be honest. If Obama hadn't saved the auto industry, where would our economy be? Let's see how honest you can be. And if you feel we should be in a major depression, please explain why.

No.

The agenda was to let the bankruptcy proceed legally, and not to toss secured creditors, like the many pension funds that lost money, and the middle class that depends on, be tossed aside in favor of politically powerful unions.

I hate to break the news to you, but the membership of those "unions" is made up of those "middle class" workers. Obviously, you don't belong to one.

Notice how you just said some bullshit without a link and some evidence? Just pulled out of thin air. As if it's "common knowledge", but without bothering to collect any "facts"?

The obvious question, with all those jobs gone, what would come next. "Something else"? Is that right wing plan? "Something else"?

Jobs can continue to exist even if they are not union jobs. These jobs would have continued to exist, but the wage rates would have been reduced to the wage rates prevelant in the USA based Auto Manufacturing companies that don't have American name plates.

Do you intentionally blind yourself to reality or are you just subject to some impairment?

By artificially inflating the wage rates of the GM workers over the wage rates of those same jobs at Toyota, Suburu, Honda and Isuza, we are dooming the workers at GM to a death spiral like the one they were just bailed out of.

Do you think the GM failed due to a magic spell or that maybe good or bad business practices had some impact on the outcomes?

 

[Liberty]

QB rocked rdean's world. well done.

 

[loosecannon]

Do you intentionally blind yourself to reality or are you just subject to some impairment?

You are talking to rdean! He's like the Silly Rabbi facing west, not east.

 

[Revere]

Sorry. More and more government on the backs of fewer and fewer private sector jobs is doomed.

 

[The Infidel]

Do you intentionally blind yourself to reality or are you just subject to some impairment?

Liberalism is a mental disorder and Rdean should have a car with handicapped plates on it.

 

[The Infidel]

Sorry. More and more government on the backs of fewer and fewer private sector jobs is doomed.

Definately unsustainable....

 

[Revere]

GM's sustainable operations would have been absorbed by other companies, instead of operating in a coma on the backs of taxpayers.

 

[fyrenza]

If it means that folks will be able to blame EVERYTHING on Obozo for the next, what, FIFTY YEARS?

then, Hey! I'd be open to it!




What kind of fucked up question IS that?

OIC. A dummietard question.

Cripes.

 

[Flopper]

I'm looking at all the good news from the Auto Industry and I'm amazed that Republicans did everything they could to make sure that industry was destroyed, even though that would mean all the millions of Americans that would be unemployed.

Not just the companies, but the suppliers. Even Chrysler, it's suppliers wouldn't have managed to stay in business with Ford and GM gone. It's possible with no reliable suppliers, Honda and foreign companies might have stopped production, not to mention the fact that with so many people out of work, no one could buy cars anyway.

Then there would be all the industries supplying raw materials. And all the local business. Everything from donut shops to malls. It all would have been gone.

Then, without any revenue, teachers, police, firefighters, and all the other people that are needed to keep a community going would have been laid off.

Remember, this was the Republican agenda. Let the Auto Industries fail.

GM just repaid another 11 billion which drops the governments share from 60% to 30%.

Kokomo had an unemployment rate of 20% and now it's 12%. That's an 8% drop.

Chrysler is proposing a 2 billion dollar upgrade investment with 600 million going to Illinois.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101124/OEM/101129945/1137

Come on USMB. Be honest. If Obama hadn't saved the auto industry, where would our economy be? Let's see how honest you can be. And if you feel we should be in a major depression, please explain why.

No.

The agenda was to let the bankruptcy proceed legally, and not to toss secured creditors, like the many pension funds that lost money, and the middle class that depends on, be tossed aside in favor of politically powerful unions.

What makes you think things would have been better for stock and bond holders if the GM would have gone through bankruptcy? I have owned stock in several companies that went through bankruptcy. Stock holders usually get nothing are only a few pennies a share. Bonds of manufacturing companies are usually secured by fixed assets such as plants, equipment, supplies, and inventory which rarely bring a good price.

Looking back, critics make the assumption that there would have been a reorganization and the automaker would have been saved. At the time the government stepped in there were no buyers. GM was headed toward liquidation of assets. The vultures were gathering to scoop up the remnants of GM at bargain prices. There is of course no way of knowing what would have actually occurred if the government had not saved GM. But one thing is for sure. It would have been a hell of a gamble. A gamble the country could ill afford to take.

 

[Revere]

I'm looking at all the good news from the Auto Industry and I'm amazed that Republicans did everything they could to make sure that industry was destroyed, even though that would mean all the millions of Americans that would be unemployed.

Not just the companies, but the suppliers. Even Chrysler, it's suppliers wouldn't have managed to stay in business with Ford and GM gone. It's possible with no reliable suppliers, Honda and foreign companies might have stopped production, not to mention the fact that with so many people out of work, no one could buy cars anyway.

Then there would be all the industries supplying raw materials. And all the local business. Everything from donut shops to malls. It all would have been gone.

Then, without any revenue, teachers, police, firefighters, and all the other people that are needed to keep a community going would have been laid off.

Remember, this was the Republican agenda. Let the Auto Industries fail.

GM just repaid another 11 billion which drops the governments share from 60% to 30%.

Kokomo had an unemployment rate of 20% and now it's 12%. That's an 8% drop.

Chrysler is proposing a 2 billion dollar upgrade investment with 600 million going to Illinois.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101124/OEM/101129945/1137

Come on USMB. Be honest. If Obama hadn't saved the auto industry, where would our economy be? Let's see how honest you can be. And if you feel we should be in a major depression, please explain why.

No.

The agenda was to let the bankruptcy proceed legally, and not to toss secured creditors, like the many pension funds that lost money, and the middle class that depends on, be tossed aside in favor of politically powerful unions.

What makes you think things would have been better for stock and bond holders if the GM would have gone through bankruptcy? I have owned stock in several companies that went through bankruptcy. Stock holders usually get nothing are only a few pennies a share. Bonds of manufacturing companies are usually secured by fixed assets such as plants, equipment, supplies, and inventory which rarely bring a good price.

Looking back, critics make the assumption that there would have been a reorganization and the automaker would have been saved. At the time the government stepped in there were no buyers. GM was headed toward liquidation of assets. The vultures were gathering to scoop up the remnants of GM at bargain prices. There is of course no way of knowing what would have actually occurred if the government had not saved GM. But one thing is for sure. It would have been a hell of a gamble. A gamble the country could ill afford to take.

That's easy. Your stock losses should not be mitigated by permanent indenture to taxpayers.

 

[Old Rocks]

And, most importantly, the President must not get any credit for preventing the Depression that the Republicans were determined to give us. For a second time!

 

[Flopper]

No.

The agenda was to let the bankruptcy proceed legally, and not to toss secured creditors, like the many pension funds that lost money, and the middle class that depends on, be tossed aside in favor of politically powerful unions.

What makes you think things would have been better for stock and bond holders if the GM would have gone through bankruptcy? I have owned stock in several companies that went through bankruptcy. Stock holders usually get nothing are only a few pennies a share. Bonds of manufacturing companies are usually secured by fixed assets such as plants, equipment, supplies, and inventory which rarely bring a good price.

Looking back, critics make the assumption that there would have been a reorganization and the automaker would have been saved. At the time the government stepped in there were no buyers. GM was headed toward liquidation of assets. The vultures were gathering to scoop up the remnants of GM at bargain prices. There is of course no way of knowing what would have actually occurred if the government had not saved GM. But one thing is for sure. It would have been a hell of a gamble. A gamble the country could ill afford to take.

That's easy. Your stock losses should not be mitigated by permanent indenture to taxpayers.

Stockholder were wiped out. As I recall, bondholders lost about 3/4 of their investment. So no, the government bailout did not bailout stock and bond holders.

 

[Oddball]

No.

The agenda was to let the bankruptcy proceed legally, and not to toss secured creditors, like the many pension funds that lost money, and the middle class that depends on, be tossed aside in favor of politically powerful unions.

I hate to break the news to you, but the membership of those "unions" is made up of those "middle class" workers. Obviously, you don't belong to one.

Notice how you just said some bullshit without a link and some evidence? Just pulled out of thin air. As if it's "common knowledge", but without bothering to collect any "facts"?

The obvious question, with all those jobs gone, what would come next. "Something else"? Is that right wing plan? "Something else"?

And the leadership of the unions are scamming them of their pension money, just like they scammed the unions that invested in GM and Chrysler. Politically connected unions took advantage of their power, and middle class workers suffered as a result. Why is it that you think the Democrats care more about the middle class than the Republicans when they continually display their willingness to ignore them in favor of votes?

I forgot you live in an alternate universe. Over here the Indiana State Pension fund getting screwed is common knowledge. Lots of teachers lost their retirement, even though bankruptcy law normally gives preference to secured creditors, not the unsecured creditors that got favorable, and illegal, treatment.

Retirees, Taxpayers Ripped Off to Subsidize UAW|OpenMarket.org

Since auto workers make anywhere from $58,000 to $83,000 an hour, depending on how you count their benefits, and teachers in Illinois make about half of that, i can see why Obama preferred to support the UAW, they have more money.

Hell, the overbearing federal mandates placed on the auto industry precluded Roger Penske from keeping the Saturn brand in business.

Where are the Obammybots whinin'-n-cryin' about those lost jobs?

Oh, yeah....Saturn was mostly non-union, so those jobs don't count.

 

[loosecannon]

Oh, yeah....Saturn was mostly non-union, so those jobs don't count.

You might have a point there.

On the other hand no corporation bails on a proven product line unless forced to.

How was Saturn doing? It started strong and then went nowhere.

besides

In 2004, GM and the United Auto Workers dissolved their unique labor contract for the Spring Hill manufacturing plant, allowing Saturn operations to be integrated with the rest of GM.

Saturn Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

gee, you were 1100% wrong! That's a board record!

 

[Oddball]

Doesn't really matter, as anyone so shrewd as Roger Penske wouldn't have become involved had he not seen a way to turn a buck...That was until he met with federal technocrats and regulators, who wanted to dictate to hm what kinds of cars he would be allowed to build.