Colorado to vote on single-payer state health-care system

It should be agreed to by CONSENT and FREE CHOICE of the people, not coercion, since personal liberties and religious/political/spiritual beliefs are involved in health care and quality of life decisions. The freedom to choose is part of that, also. Constant oppression, abuse and imposition by govt can lead to similar PTSD as legal and religious abuse, so that's totally contradictory to good mental health and public health collectively.

People on dialysis don't have much in the way of free choice.

Arianrhod I have heard more horror stories of people getting threatened with being taken off support, and having to be MOVED to charitable hospitals that would allow them to continue and exercise their beliefs in sustaining life.

If you want free choice, we certainly have to start BEFORE the point of dialysis.

That's like saying people don't have a choice after they are already in a standoff with police issuing ultimatums at gunpoint. Well, what did it take to get to that point in the first place?

Preventative health care is the only way we are ever going to afford health care for all.

Quit waiting till the point of no return, to issue ultimatums on policy choices, and maybe we can organize a sustainable plan.

The reason Govt cannot be the only choice is that SPIRITUAL issues are involved, so charity and private/personal choices are INEVITABLE.

The Govt is NOT designed to manage those.
So this is self-contradictory to keep wanting to "protect free choice through Govt."

Good luck with that.

We need consensus first, then we can organize and manage resources through sound business plans, and involve the govt where needed. But Govt cannot be abused to "dictate consensus" by political coercion. We need to remove the politics altogether, and start making decisions based on what works financially and sustainably from medical, scientific and even spiritual processes that can be proven scientifically as well.

Get the solutions together first BEFORE running these through the govt process. Get the politics out of it, no coercion, just pure common sense and maybe we'll get somewhere. Thanks Arianrhod. I know your heart is in the right place, but we aren't on the same page yet because we don't have the same information to make decisions or we'd agree already. Let's work on that, okay? Thank you, seriously, we'll get there. Because of these situations where life/death depend on getting this right! Take care!
 
Lack of health care due to "poorly run govt programs that waste taxpayers money so it doesn't cover everyone's health care" is NOT something to PUNISH Citizens and Taxpayers for by forcing them to fund more expenses against their will.

It has to be something that the Specific Citizens have done wrong before their liberty can be deprived as a consequence of that abuse, crime or violation.

You mean like kidney failure? Was that caused by this woman's sin or that of her parents?

Arianrhod What are you talking about?

Just because people have heart or kidney failure
does not mean anyone has to 'deprive liberty from other people'.

And certainly does not mean blaming or judging anyone for their sickness. What???

What is wrong with microlending so people can make money if they invest in business costs.

Why can't citizens get paid interest like the investors/banks who lend money to the Federal Reserve.

To keep the costs DOWN, YES I would recommend SPIRITUAL HEALING to cure any generational issues being passed down but THAT'S NOT JUDGING ANYONE but the opposite. it works by forgiving and healing any blockages preventing healing and preventing people from cooperating with doctors to restore their own health.

We are talking past each other, Arianrhod because your question does not even address what I am saying.

You are like shooting blanks through the ceiling over my head. Can we get on the same page, and start from there?

You're right in saying we're talking past each other. You're talking accounting. I'm talking humanity. It's amusing that you'll talk religion when it suits you, but you'll dissociate it from compassion.

I'm talking about BOTH. If we are going to make the accounting work, people have to be in agreement by free choice. Otherwise we waste resources/finances fighting politically instead of investing in solutions.

No, I'm not talking about religion but spiritually what has worked to cure and heal both
* physical
* mental and psychological
* criminal and social ills
This will SAVE LIVES AND MONEY

So sustainable health care for all
DEPENDS on spiritual healing, and proving it medically/scientifically so we not only save lives but RESOURCES to cover our entire population.

This isn't religion but science.

Do you agree we need to base medical and health reform on SCIENCE?

Can we start there, Arianrhod
And agree to get both religion and politics out of the way.
Okay?
 
^So what's the proactive approach to kidney failure?

When we are healing everyone, and clearing out prisons from problems related to drugs and trafficking and addictions/abuses that cost taxpayers 50K per year per person incarcerated,

then we'll have plenty more resources to cover health care and emergencies instead of blowing our budgets every time there are shootouts and dozens of people end up in ERs.

How's that Arianrhod

Not only healing addictions and "generational illnesses" related directly to cancer, kidneys, etc. etc. but curing all social and physical ills that can possibly be prevented.

And proactively repurposing all those resources and facilities to prevention and to EMERGENCY care that can't be prevented. How's that for a proactive sustainable plan?
 
"Spiritual healing" is not science.

Science can prove the difference between
* faith healing that is not only false but dangerous
* spiritual healing that works with science and medicine
and has already been documented by studies.

The valid sources of spiritual healing that I recommend for replicating research studies are
* Dr. Francis and Judith MacNutt www.christianhealingmin.org
* Dr. Phillip Goldfedder www.healingisyours.com
* Olivia Reiner in Houston, who volunteers at the MD Anderson Cancer Center, Ronald McDonald House and TX Med Center.

If you want to hear the sample testimonies, you may contact any of these people. I just spoke with Olivia yesterday 713-829-0899 who has been collecting testimonies of spiritual healing for 30-40 years now. She still says a lot of people are just not ready, but it's getting closer to the time. Once the truth is proven and accepted, that's it. We won't have all the suffering and waste on problems we do now, everyone will start working together on solutions, because the entire ENVIRONMENT changes around people with the spiritual healing. It doesn't just cure the diseased person, but changes the relationships around the person because the spiritual healing is based on forgiveness which multiplies.

Arianrhod if you don't believe me, or any of these nonprofit healing ministries that have been saving lives for over 40 years, or any of the books written on how this can change the medical and mental health institutions (eg, Scott Peck's Glimpses of the Devil and People of the Lie where he observed, tested out and started using spiritual healing to cure "incureable" schizophrenic and sociopathic clients after he discovered these methods actually saved people's minds and lives)

Then I am happy to offer you to take up the 10 million dollar bet on this.

I offer for any skeptic like you to agree to raise 5 million in donations to charity, while I raise 5 million, and we bet on whether Spiritual Healing can be proven medically to work (I propose to prove correlation, by tracking sociological statistics on the FORGIVENESS factor, and the correlation between rates of healing and forgiveness and between rates of failure and unforgiveness) Whoever is right, then the whole 10 million we raise together goes to the charities and choices of the winning team. I have a lot of friends who need medical bills paid for, that I would donate the money to. I'm sure you do, too.

If you look online, you can find references to
* a study on intercessory prayer that FAILED to find any positive impact on heart patients (because it did not identify and study the FORGIVENESS factor in why people do report success in healing)
This study only focused on the act of prayer, but not the changes internally which make the difference if people heal or not.
* a study on Rheumatoid Arthritis funded by the Templeton Foundation which found that the methods used by MacNutt's team in Florida did produce positive results (that could only be attributed to the healing prayer, including one patient described in the author's 1999 edition of HEALING, who went from being crippled in pain to walking like normal again with no symptoms at all or need for medication for pain)

If you research the same process that changed the minds of Dr. Goldfedder and Dr. Peck, you'd understand how revolutionary the impact would be on medicine, mental health, and criminal justice reforms.

People may not be ready for this change, Arianrhod,
but we can't afford to keep paying for problems
when the solutions are practically FREE.

Out of pure necessity, more people will eventually look into these options and find out they really work. Until then, more lives are lost every day, because people aren't ready to deal with change of this magnitude.

If Americans are too stubborn and just can't "get over" religion and politics to see the solutions that have been around for centuries, maybe the Chinese will discover Spiritual Healing first to save and serve the billions of people they have to deal with. Or maybe the Russians will do the research and publicize this first. We'll see...

If you'd like to get this started, would you like to collaborate
and structure a fun bet online, and start collecting donations to go toward
charity cases? As the testimonies and research get posted in favor of proving spiritual healing works, I would allow the people making bets to switch sides so that everyone gets on the winning side and gets their medical bills paid for.

The point would be to publicize how many resources and lives we could save if we used spiritual healing to cut costs of crime, disease and more expensive treatments. Would you like to make a friendly bet? Or do more research first?

I know an Atheist in Spain who wanted to see this bet and proof get done right.
I offered to donate some of the prize money so he and his buddies could party who've only met online. That's a form of therapy, don't you think? ;-)
 
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^The development of a functioning artificial kidney would be more practical.
 
^The development of a functioning artificial kidney would be more practical.

Sure, Arianrhod, we could pay for medical education, internships and residencies/grad students and doctors to do this kind of work.

Instead of wasting "50K a year" every time a criminally ill person gets sent to and stuck in prison for not getting help in time.

Lots of solutions we could be funding instead of crime that is preventable. Once we prove that mental and criminal illness can be detected and cured BEFORE anyone has commit a crime or kill someone to get help.

If you read the books by Scott Peck (that are more secular in explanation), you might get an idea how this could change our whole system. Or contact Dr. Phillip Goldfedder who found that spiritual healing methods worked better than neurosurgery because he can cure the root cause instead of just treating symptoms. He is more religious. I would go with Dr. Peck's books who wrote about how this discovery changed his mind from rejecting the idea as a skeptic to observing/understanding how it works (in stages of recovery that can be documented by scientific methods) and advocating for further formal medical research and reform.
 
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^That sounds so familiar.

v1.bTsxMTE3MDM0MztqOzE3MTMyOzIwNDg7ODAwOzEyMDA
 
Nope. It's the opposite. Because it isn't based on blaming or judging anyone but healing and recovery.

Arianrhod people voluntarily get tested for cancer and diabetes because they want to live. They will push loved ones to get tested who are afraid. The sooner the diagnosis and treatment, the better chances of cure and recovery.

Why not with other deadly diseases?

Do we judge and blame people for having cancer, or do we try to get them help in time before it becomes deadly and irreversible?

Nobody ever cured lepers by sequestering them from society. This takes medical research and development to beat leprosy. To stop people from dying from pneumonia and TB that used to kill them.

Why not take a medical approach to diagnosis and cure?

^That sounds so familiar.

v1.bTsxMTE3MDM0MztqOzE3MTMyOzIwNDg7ODAwOzEyMDA
 
Are you under the impression that medical professionals use something other than a medical approach to diagnosis and cure?
 
Nope. It's the opposite. Because it isn't based on blaming or judging anyone but healing and recovery.

Arianrhod people voluntarily get tested for cancer and diabetes because they want to live. They will push loved ones to get tested who are afraid. The sooner the diagnosis and treatment, the better chances of cure and recovery.

Why not with other deadly diseases?

Do we judge and blame people for having cancer, or do we try to get them help in time before it becomes deadly and irreversible?

Nobody ever cured lepers by sequestering them from society. This takes medical research and development to beat leprosy. To stop people from dying from pneumonia and TB that used to kill them.

Why not take a medical approach to diagnosis and cure?

^That sounds so familiar.

v1.bTsxMTE3MDM0MztqOzE3MTMyOzIwNDg7ODAwOzEyMDA

I think you mean a more forward thinking scientific approach.

The only problem is that if we were arguing over the molecular structure of water.....we'd find a way to politisize it.
 

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