Colorado: Think it Through!

Every time something happens you people want to take away the rights of the law abiding citizens..

and you think I meant the car thing as a joke? you take away guns, tear gas, etc... crazy people will ALWAYS find something else just as destructive..my gawd some of you people hate freedom

Are you drunk Stephanie? Because I really have a hard time believing that anyone is truly as stupid as you come off on these posts of yours.

Try dealing with what I posted and take it from there.....READ IT CAREFULLY AND COMPREHENSIVELY, then get back to me.

Also the poster you are referring to stated in no uncertain terms that he is a gun owner and that the neocon/teabagger BS about Obama taking away gun rights was just that....BS!

Get it together, Stephanie.

oh I read your crap...it's no different than all the other crap you post...name calling and whiny bullshit...you just didn't like the answer, not my problem whiny ass.

Translation: Here we have the spittle strewn retort of another dumb ass neocon/teabagger flunky who doesn't have the information, intelligence or courage to adequately fault an observation/opinion that counters their belief system. Steph will do anything BUT deal directly with any point I raised. Pathetic.
 
Oh right, the Nyslimes says so

Sorry to burst your bubble, Steph....but so did EVERY OTHER REPUTABLE NEWS SERVICE.

You'd know that if you ever get your head out of the asses of Limbaugh or Murdoch or Kristol.

Do your homework and THINK IT THROUGH!
 
Name one gun wielding criminal that ever obeyed a gun law or bothered with a conceal carry permit?

Since those laws are a total failure, maybe they should be repealed so the populace can properly defend itself.

You've totally ignored what I was pointing out in favor of some ass backwards assertions that you hope will justify the OK Corral scenario I previously discussed.

You need to stop being a NRA flunky and THINK IT THROUGH.
never supported the NRA in my life. I support the second amendment from slavers seeking to disarm their potential victims. Just like those politicians saying that a person in that theater armed and able to defend himself cannot be proven to save lives, nor could it be said that they would potentially cost more lives.

Stop babbling Fitz....only a complete asshole would state that a bunch of untrained, armed civilians in a dark theatre with smoke bombs, gun shots and panicky people all over the place would make things better. Fantasy! Try asking a seasoned cop what he would think about that scenario. Like I said earlier, you damn near got the hero of the Arizona shooting shot with the BS you're exposing.

It's a hypothetical with no historical basis. Has there ever been an incident like this recorded where a legal gun owner killed innocents in the act of defending others? I can't think of one. And I doubt it ever has existed because the slavers would be screaming it from the rooftops non-stop.

Ahhh, the cry of the willfully ignorant NRA flunky....see no evil, hear no evil. Just do a simple google on "accidental shootings concealed carry", because I'm damned tired of doing the homework for jokers like you.

Have there been MANY occasions on which lives WERE saved with a citizen legally owning and using a firearm properly? Tens of thousands.

You pull that out of your ass or do you have some documentation?

Maybe you're thinking it through so much you're ignoring history.

You're full of it , Fitz. YOU haven't a clue as to what's going on in the world, you just blow smoke. Perhaps you were asleep when the guy who tackled the shooter of the Arizona senator a year ago was almost shot by a CWP joker who was out to save the day? Look it up, and stop wasting everyone's time with your BS, Fitz.
 
here we go, first they try to blame the Tea Party, and now it's onto the Nra

Same old Stephanie.....no brains or guts to honestly discuss the issues raised in the OP, but ready to attack anyone who brings up issues her belief system can't logically defend.

You can't bluff or dodge on a printed medium, Steph old girl....the chronology of the posts won't let you. Thought you'd learned that by now.

THINK IT THROUGH!

lol, you should talk..
you posted this to someone trying to carry on a discussion with you..
you don't have to be a card carrying member to still be their flunky, as you obviously are by throwing out all the old mantras to dodge the core items of my OP. Keep it up, you're proving my point.
you haven't changed in all the years..some old rude jerk
that's why I don't bother, and the rest of you should see that by now

I've already pointed out your BS, Steph....you suddenly go all etiquette advocate when you and your condescending, nasty tinged posting cronies get bested. The chronology of the posts shows this.

Bottom line: Steph can't debate the issue beyond personal attacks, slogans and mantras. So one needs to clue her in....saying "no it's not" doesn't win a debate. So unless she's willing to sober up and grow up, I'll just leave Steph to her ranting and maudlin exchanges.
 
Hey! I hate to burst your bubble cause it was a good speech.. but the stats show that a criminal always has access to weapons.

And your point is what? Because statistics also show that criminals obtain more guns from states with lesser or lax gun laws (i.e., a slew of gun related crimes in NYC have been committed with weapons obtained from states like Virginia).

Like I said, think it through.

I buy a few guns a year in Virginia at both gun shops and gun shows. The requirements are the same. We do not have lax firearms purchase requirements.

Also, NYC criminals and those from other areas would be wise to stay away from Virginia.

Newsflash for ya.....in the last 5 years you had a rash of gun crimes in NYC where the guns were traced to Virginia. Look it up if you don't believe me....and look at the link I provided to that Quantum Windbag on the subject.
 
I agree with your point about him being able to purchase all the ammo he did and the body armor off the net but how do you deal with that as soon as someone mentions trying regulate the web all hell breaks loose and that is seen as unacceptable.

True enough....but if you have an NSA program for key words and phrases, then why not one that tags excessive purchases of para-military equipment? I mean, an individual purchasing 60K worth of ammo an no red flags? Hell, if people are willing to put up with the Patriot Act in one way, why not this.

I don't disagree but anytime someone tries to bring up legislation to do that it gets knocked down trying to get anything passed to regulate or flag questionable purchases on the web is next to impossible.

I think it's because politicians, who are beholden to various interest, rarely propose a simple law for a specific without some attachments or riders that distort the original intent. Given the disclosed abuses of authority by our various law enforcement agencies, people are wary of any law that will give them more authority. It's a nasty cycle that hopefully will be straigthened out in my life time.
 
And your point is what? Because statistics also show that criminals obtain more guns from states with lesser or lax gun laws (i.e., a slew of gun related crimes in NYC have been committed with weapons obtained from states like Virginia).

Like I said, think it through.

I buy a few guns a year in Virginia at both gun shops and gun shows. The requirements are the same. We do not have lax firearms purchase requirements.

Also, NYC criminals and those from other areas would be wise to stay away from Virginia.

Newsflash for ya.....in the last 5 years you had a rash of gun crimes in NYC where the guns were traced to Virginia. Look it up if you don't believe me....and look at the link I provided to that Quantum Windbag on the subject.

Don't let your uterus wander too much there slick, I didn't have a rash of any kind. New Yuck City needs to tend to their own business. If they don't trust their citizens with firearms, it is none of my concern. You're getting your ass handed to you. Go cry on another topic. Maybe clean air and water is more your speed.
 
You've totally ignored what I was pointing out in favor of some ass backwards assertions that you hope will justify the OK Corral scenario I previously discussed.

You need to stop being a NRA flunky and THINK IT THROUGH.
never supported the NRA in my life. I support the second amendment from slavers seeking to disarm their potential victims. Just like those politicians saying that a person in that theater armed and able to defend himself cannot be proven to save lives, nor could it be said that they would potentially cost more lives.

Stop babbling Fitz....only a complete asshole would state that a bunch of untrained, armed civilians in a dark theatre with smoke bombs, gun shots and panicky people all over the place would make things better. Fantasy! Try asking a seasoned cop what he would think about that scenario. Like I said earlier, you damn near got the hero of the Arizona shooting shot with the BS you're exposing.

It's a hypothetical with no historical basis. Has there ever been an incident like this recorded where a legal gun owner killed innocents in the act of defending others? I can't think of one. And I doubt it ever has existed because the slavers would be screaming it from the rooftops non-stop.

Ahhh, the cry of the willfully ignorant NRA flunky....see no evil, hear no evil. Just do a simple google on "accidental shootings concealed carry", because I'm damned tired of doing the homework for jokers like you.

Have there been MANY occasions on which lives WERE saved with a citizen legally owning and using a firearm properly? Tens of thousands.

You pull that out of your ass or do you have some documentation?

Maybe you're thinking it through so much you're ignoring history.

You're full of it , Fitz. YOU haven't a clue as to what's going on in the world, you just blow smoke. Perhaps you were asleep when the guy who tackled the shooter of the Arizona senator a year ago was almost shot by a CWP joker who was out to save the day? Look it up, and stop wasting everyone's time with your BS, Fitz.
Okay, let's analyze this statement.

"was ALMOST shot". Almost. Key little word. He still WASN'T shot.

So it doesn't count.

I think people are sick and tired of your frantic hyperventilating over things that might possibly occur with a lottery like rareness.

Oh, and learn to fisk properly and quit inserting your text in my quotes or I will report the TOS violation.
 
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And your point is what? Because statistics also show that criminals obtain more guns from states with lesser or lax gun laws (i.e., a slew of gun related crimes in NYC have been committed with weapons obtained from states like Virginia).

Like I said, think it through.

I bet they show no such thing.

You never cease to amaze me with your proud ignorance on various subjects, my silly little Windbag. Here's a primer for your education: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/opinion/virginias-gift-to-gunrunners.html

What a surprise, not a word about where criminals get guns, just a lot of speculation about how looser laws in Virginia will destroy NYC
 
Hey! I hate to burst your bubble cause it was a good speech.. but the stats show that a criminal always has access to weapons.

But is it the criminals responsible for these shootings? No - they become criminals when they have committed the shooting. Before that, they were law abiding citizens.

Seems the problem isn't with criminals at all - its with the every day Joe's who are ticking time bombs.
 
Great Progressive Leaders throughout the ages have thrived when their citizens were unarmed.
 
Now let's think that one through: the perpetraitor comes into a dark theatre lit only by the big screen, hurls smoke bombs and then opens fire with a semi-automatic. Panic ensues....people screaming, hiding, running, choking. Now let's add to the mix some CWP citizen brandishing his/her weapon while trying to get a bead on the perpetraitor for a clear shot. Maybe they get jumped and beaten by panicked patrons thinking this person is in league with the killer...maybe the CWP person fires off a few rounds and accidently hits people trying to flee...or maybe the CWP person actually hits and kills the perpetraitor, only to be shot by the police who show up at the scene with very little description, or they get beaten to near death by panicked patrons who literally don't know which end is up.

There is a major flaw with this argument. While citizens packing heat at the location may not have proven particularly beneficial in this particular instance, you are explicitly outlining several details of this incident that make it unique to gun violence in general. You're proving that you're actually committing fallacy of accident. If the majority of violent gun crimes took place in dark movie theaters and involved smoke bombs, your point could have more merit. But of course, that's not the case.

Bottom line: yes, across the country you've had some incidences where a CWP has stopped a crime....that's a rarity and a specific set of circumstances.

I'll indulge you for a moment that it is indeed a rarity and under specific circumstances. We need to still put together the cause and effect. I would imagine that the commission or attempted commission of violent gun crimes against CCW permitted individuals who happen to be carrying at the time of a given incident is a relative rarity itself. The statistic that would be of relevance here, then, would be specifically narrow the scope to those instances, and identify the proportion of those instances where a person subsequently defended themselves successfully thanks to having their weapon on their person at the time.

Having a population strapped 24/7 like the Old West would NOT have bode well at Columbine, or Virginia Tech.

You need to support this assertion.
 
The problem is this guy didn't have a rap sheet they followed the rules ran a background check on him the only thing he had was one speeding ticket.

IMHO, that wasn't the problem...the problem was that this guy was LEGALLY able to stock up on weapons and ammo and para-military equipment(was it 6 or 60 rounds of ammo bought off the internet) WITHOUT setting off any red flags. Hell, you and I use certain words in a google search and we appear on an NSA hot sheet!

But like I said, having a slew of people walking around strapped 24/7 isn't the solution.
I agree with your point about him being able to purchase all the ammo he did and the body armor off the net but how do you deal with that as soon as someone mentions trying regulate the web all hell breaks loose and that is seen as unacceptable.

The same people who think that gun control will regulate guns are the same people who think that drug control won't work in regulating marijuana use.
 
I buy a few guns a year in Virginia at both gun shops and gun shows. The requirements are the same. We do not have lax firearms purchase requirements.

Also, NYC criminals and those from other areas would be wise to stay away from Virginia.

Newsflash for ya.....in the last 5 years you had a rash of gun crimes in NYC where the guns were traced to Virginia. Look it up if you don't believe me....and look at the link I provided to that Quantum Windbag on the subject.

Don't let your uterus wander too much there slick, I didn't have a rash of any kind. New Yuck City needs to tend to their own business. If they don't trust their citizens with firearms, it is none of my concern. You're getting your ass handed to you. Go cry on another topic. Maybe clean air and water is more your speed.

Are you really this fucking stupid, or are you a testament to the quality of our education system? Or were you trying for a lame joke?

No matter, the chronology of the posts shows what point I was making and the FACTS I used to back them up. Too bad for you if you don't have the brains or the courage to deal with a reality that contradicts your belief system.

To dumb it down for you: The FACTS contradict Old Navy to a great degree....and he just can't Deal with it.
 
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never supported the NRA in my life. I support the second amendment from slavers seeking to disarm their potential victims. Just like those politicians saying that a person in that theater armed and able to defend himself cannot be proven to save lives, nor could it be said that they would potentially cost more lives.

Stop babbling Fitz....only a complete asshole would state that a bunch of untrained, armed civilians in a dark theatre with smoke bombs, gun shots and panicky people all over the place would make things better. Fantasy! Try asking a seasoned cop what he would think about that scenario. Like I said earlier, you damn near got the hero of the Arizona shooting shot with the BS you're exposing.

It's a hypothetical with no historical basis. Has there ever been an incident like this recorded where a legal gun owner killed innocents in the act of defending others? I can't think of one. And I doubt it ever has existed because the slavers would be screaming it from the rooftops non-stop.

Ahhh, the cry of the willfully ignorant NRA flunky....see no evil, hear no evil. Just do a simple google on "accidental shootings concealed carry", because I'm damned tired of doing the homework for jokers like you.

Have there been MANY occasions on which lives WERE saved with a citizen legally owning and using a firearm properly? Tens of thousands.

You pull that out of your ass or do you have some documentation?

Maybe you're thinking it through so much you're ignoring history.

You're full of it , Fitz. YOU haven't a clue as to what's going on in the world, you just blow smoke. Perhaps you were asleep when the guy who tackled the shooter of the Arizona senator a year ago was almost shot by a CWP joker who was out to save the day? Look it up, and stop wasting everyone's time with your BS, Fitz.
Okay, let's analyze this statement.

"was ALMOST shot". Almost. Key little word. He still WASN'T shot.

So it doesn't count.

Are you shitting me, Fitz? This isn't some board game for points we're discussing. A man was saved from a CWP guy by the Grace of God, and you say all is well? Obviously, you didn't have the balls to google the key words I gave that show folks who weren't so lucky, and were it did unfortunately "count".

I think people are sick and tired of your frantic hyperventilating over things that might possibly occur with a lottery like rareness.

Spoken like a true neocon/teabagger intellectual coward that dodges the FACTS in favor of your fantasies and personal attacks.

Oh, and learn to fisk properly and quit inserting your text in my quotes or I will report the TOS violation.

Oh, FYI: another whiny ass neocon/teabagger used the same threat....and got his ass handed to him when I told him that since I DO NOT alter/edit anything that you have posted, my color coded responses can be placed anywhere I please and are well within the TOS....which was validated upon review.

If you can't stand the heat, Fitz, STFU. :badgrin:
 
You're full of it , Fitz. YOU haven't a clue as to what's going on in the world, you just blow smoke. Perhaps you were asleep when the guy who tackled the shooter of the Arizona senator a year ago was almost shot by a CWP joker who was out to save the day? Look it up, and stop wasting everyone's time with your BS, Fitz.
Okay, let's analyze this statement.

"was ALMOST shot". Almost. Key little word. He still WASN'T shot.

So it doesn't count.

Are you shitting me, Fitz? This isn't some board game for points we're discussing. A man was saved from a CWP guy by the Grace of God, and you say all is well? Obviously, you didn't have the balls to google the key words I gave that show folks who weren't so lucky, and were it did unfortunately "count".

I think people are sick and tired of your frantic hyperventilating over things that might possibly occur with a lottery like rareness.

Spoken like a true neocon/teabagger intellectual coward that dodges the FACTS in favor of your fantasies and personal attacks.

Oh, and learn to fisk properly and quit inserting your text in my quotes or I will report the TOS violation.

Oh, FYI: another whiny ass neocon/teabagger used the same threat....and got his ass handed to him when I told him that since I DO NOT alter/edit anything that you have posted, my color coded responses can be placed anywhere I please and are well within the TOS....which was validated upon review.

If you can't stand the heat, Fitz, STFU. :badgrin:
DOesn't matter. Rules is rules and they apply to you too. You may emphasize text, but not add to it.

Last person who kept doing it to me ate a time out.
 
I bet they show no such thing.

You never cease to amaze me with your proud ignorance on various subjects, my silly little Windbag. Here's a primer for your education: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/opinion/virginias-gift-to-gunrunners.html

What a surprise, not a word about where criminals get guns, just a lot of speculation about how looser laws in Virginia will destroy NYC


Evidently you didn't read the article carefully and comprehensively....not surprising. I'll give you one more chance to do so and then recant your erroneous statement before humiliating your silly Windbag ass. Carry on.
 

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