College May Become Unaffordable for Most in U.S.

[Skeptik]

link to article from the NYT

The rising cost of college — even before the recession — threatens to put higher education out of reach for most Americans, according to the biennial report from the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education.

To put things in perspective, I graduated with a BA from a private college in '64 broke but with no debt. My father was a sawmill worker, my mom a stay at home (that was expected at that time for the most part.)

I graduated with an MA from a state college in '73. There was no tuition at that time, just a $50 a year fee.

It is getting increasingly difficult to find a job that pays a living wage without a degree, and a degree is getting more and more expensive to obtain. Of course, those trends have been going on for a long time, as you can see.

Solutions, anyone?

 

[xsited1]

Let the free market decide.

 

[Zoomie1980]

link to article from the NYT



To put things in perspective, I graduated with a BA from a private college in '64 broke but with no debt. My father was a sawmill worker, my mom a stay at home (that was expected at that time for the most part.)

I graduated with an MA from a state college in '73. There was no tuition at that time, just a $50 a year fee.

It is getting increasingly difficult to find a job that pays a living wage without a degree, and a degree is getting more and more expensive to obtain. Of course, those trends have been going on for a long time, as you can see.

Solutions, anyone?

50 years ago less than 10% of the public went to college. But the flip side of that is that the degree programs were limited to mostly legitmate fields of endeavor that required the knowledge in order to do a job industry required. You had to have a degree to be a civil engineer, an accountant, a doctor, a lawyer, etc.. But that was all that was ever offerred.

Now you have colleges offerring degrees in all sorts of CRAP coupled with a tremendous DEMAND. We've become a society that somehow REQUIRES a college degree to show success even if the degree is useless mush.

It's a great myth the education establishment created to grow itself. As a percentage of population we still put out about the same percentages of engineers, programmers, doctors we always have.

If you want to get a degree in something that pays just check the salary research sites. Otherwise, learn a trade, because majoring in crap business does not value is a waste of money and time.

The market will eventually price itself out of range as many people realize they are no longer going to spend large sums of money on useless degrees and we will bust back to colleges teaching LEGITIMATE college material.

 

[Zoomie1980]

link to article from the NYT



To put things in perspective, I graduated with a BA from a private college in '64 broke but with no debt. My father was a sawmill worker, my mom a stay at home (that was expected at that time for the most part.)

I graduated with an MA from a state college in '73. There was no tuition at that time, just a $50 a year fee.

It is getting increasingly difficult to find a job that pays a living wage without a degree, and a degree is getting more and more expensive to obtain. Of course, those trends have been going on for a long time, as you can see.

Solutions, anyone?

You haven't hired and independent plumber or electrician lately then or had your kitchen remodeled.

 

[TR_GOP]

You haven't hired and independent plumber or electrician lately then or had your kitchen remodeled.

Ever ask plumbing, electrical, and carpentry subcontractors for a hourly breakdown of labor, materials, overhead, and profit? Instead of a greedy independent why not hire the biggest firm in the phone book? Logically it should be cheaper due to economy of scale (fleet/insurance v 1 truck/insurance, bulk purchases of materials, one licensed tradesman w/5 undocumented workers v one and one, or none, steady stream of business, and so forth. Or is the expectation of a decent return only accpetable for big business? How does this work in, say, medicine? Should a patient expect a break in the bill from a one doctor practice v a physicians group?

O/T parable follows; from time to time I used to hear similiar grumblings from Land Rover, Jaguar, BMW, and M-B owners who shopped their work from dealer to dealer to practically every foreign import shop in town in searching of a cut-rate bargain repair for their Euro Import status symbol. Sometimes you just couldn't avoid customer bellyaching over the bill, even if the work was performed perfectly and consumed more time than charged.

Although I didn't keep a diary on the matter I can state affirmatively this behavior was most common among attorneys, with dentist and real estate people here and there.. I remember this one personal injury attorney who kicked his Range Rover's sunroof clear off the rails in a panic because the electric door locks quit (body control module went kapu). I guess some folks grow clear into adulthood never once finding the need to physically manipulate that funny little up-n-down thingy deal on the doorsill. His bill added up to approx $800.00, $500 of that for the factory parts with no markup. Man was he PO'ed. I've yet to figure that one out.

At one time in my life I really enjoyed repairing imported luxury automobiles. No longer. Their owners made me detest them. Well, except for Ferraris. Ferrari owners are nothing at all like M-B, Jag, or Land Rover people. Moreso it wasn't uncommon for these customers to befriend their mechanics akin to the way most people develop relationships with a good hair stylist or bartender. There was an attitude of respect and mutual admiration for the vehicle. Me thinks Ferrari people love their cars, the other customers just love themselves. While Ferrari owners appreciated the level of technical expertise demanded the other Euro drivers oftentimes viewed the whole experience as an unwelcomed cost and inturruption of their fast-paced daily routine. "Dang it! The local tire and brake shop says they don't touch 'em so I have to surrender it to an overpriced specialist. The outrage! It's only fixing stuff, that's a lower class occupation. Professionals have degrees and clean clothes. What a ripoff"

Have I gone far enough off topic at this point? There actually is a point...

 

[PoliticalChic]

link to article from the NYT



To put things in perspective, I graduated with a BA from a private college in '64 broke but with no debt. My father was a sawmill worker, my mom a stay at home (that was expected at that time for the most part.)

I graduated with an MA from a state college in '73. There was no tuition at that time, just a $50 a year fee.

It is getting increasingly difficult to find a job that pays a living wage without a degree, and a degree is getting more and more expensive to obtain. Of course, those trends have been going on for a long time, as you can see.

Solutions, anyone?

From my own experience, now a days, you need a graduate degree to get a good job. But the amount of money you have to spend to obtain a bachelor's and a master's degree doesn't necessarily translate to a job that pays in proportion to what you spent.

Why aren't people screaming that tution prices should be lowered? Parents now have to plan for their children's college education as soon as they are born. It would make sense if the college education brought with it some sort of job security, but everyone knows that that isn't the case. People complain about the price of houses, gas, food, etc. Why isn't college education on the list especially since it is becoming more and more a necessity?

 

[Andrew2382]

Most schools already are. I graduated with a BA and I came out with over 60 thousand in school loans to be paid back and I was on a half scholarship.

I can't even Imagine what tutitons are going to look like in 16 years when my son is ready to start school. School where I went where tuition was around 35 a year will be in the 60's I am sure by then.

Fucking scary

 

[Amanda]

I hope I can afford to go next year. So far it looks pretty good for getting financial assistance.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Most schools already are. I graduated with a BA and I came out with over 60 thousand in school loans to be paid back and I was on a half scholarship.

I can't even Imagine what tutitons are going to look like in 16 years when my son is ready to start school. School where I went where tuition was around 35 a year will be in the 60's I am sure by then.

Fucking scary

Because the standards for college entry have been lowerd so, most corporations use graduate degrees to get better candidates. So basically, I'm going to have to shell out for undergraduate and graduate degrees for both my children.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I hope I can afford to go next year. So far it looks pretty good for getting financial assistance.

It makes me angry that they are charging so much for college. It doesn't bother you that after spending 4 years in college and spending X number of dollars, that this may not guarantee you a good job?

 

[Andrew2382]

I hope I can afford to go next year. So far it looks pretty good for getting financial assistance.

What schools are you looking at?

 

[Amanda]

It makes me angry that they are charging so much for college. It doesn't bother you that after spending 4 years in college and spending X number of dollars, that this may not guarantee you a good job?

Well... honestly I'm not that worried. I'm sure God will provide for me and either way if it makes me smarter it will be worth it.

 

[Andrew2382]

Because the standards for college entry have been lowerd so, most corporations use graduate degrees to get better candidates. So basically, I'm going to have to shell out for undergraduate and graduate degrees for both my children.

yup, the problem is you have these schools like Universty of Phoenix that hand out degrees as if they are paper towels. So eveyone can geta degree, that is why Graduate degrees are more desired...luckily my company is paying my graduate program for me to get my masters, so I lucked out there

 

[GHook93]

I am going to law school right now. When I started 3 years ago it was $900 a credit hours (I do night school so it takes 4 years instead of 3 yr) in 3 short years later its already $1200 a credit hour! That is 33% increase (or 11% per year) unfricking believable. Lawschool in tuition alone will cost well over $100K!

Even in-state tuition for undergrad looks to be $15-20K per year. Scary, since I have 2 young children!

 

[Amanda]

What schools are you looking at?

Stuff in the Kansas City area. UMKC, Rockhurst, Park, etc.

 

[Andrew2382]

law school forget it, 5 of my child hood friends went to law school in nyc, and have well over 125 grand in loans to pay back.

It's disgusting

 

[Andrew2382]

Stuff in the Kansas City area. UMKC, Rockhurst, Park, etc.

Nice, is that where you live? If it is, may I suggest something.

Go away for college. It will be the best experience of your life.

 

[Amanda]

Nice, is that where you live? If it is, may I suggest something.

Go away for college. It will be the best experience of your life.

It's where I'm at now, but here is away. I moved here after I graduated from high school.

 

[Andrew2382]

fair enough

god I miss college life

 

[editec]

50 years ago less than 10% of the public went to college. But the flip side of that is that the degree programs were limited to mostly legitmate fields of endeavor that required the knowledge in order to do a job industry required. You had to have a degree to be a civil engineer, an accountant, a doctor, a lawyer, etc.. But that was all that was ever offerred.

Nonsense.

Liberal Arts education used to be the degree one got that lead to leadership positions in most industries.

Technologists used to be thought clever, but not leadership material.

They were thought not well rounded people, and were basically thought of as TOOLS to be used by the master class.

In fact most Ivy leagues schools started out with only one major...religion. Over time, other majors, including technical majors were added to most colleges and universities.

Now you have colleges offerring degrees in all sorts of CRAP coupled with a tremendous DEMAND. We've become a society that somehow REQUIRES a college degree to show success even if the degree is useless mush.

Clearly a liberal arts degree in social sciences or the humanities is a poor investment if the purpose of your education is making a living nowadays, I quite agree with that sentiment, Zoom.

Our society will, of course, suffer for that in the long run for that, because, while technical education is a great way of making a a living, a society truly needs people to have a well rounded education, too.

It's a great myth the education establishment created to grow itself. As a percentage of population we still put out about the same percentages of engineers, programmers, doctors we always have.

Interesting statistic. Do we graduate as many or more computer programmers, today, as we did in 1930, do you think?

If you want to get a degree in something that pays just check the salary research sites. Otherwise, learn a trade, because majoring in crap business does not value is a waste of money and time.

Very true. The world, or at least our world today, is really all about business .. the BUSINESS of medicine, the BUSINESS of science, the BUSINESS of engineering.

In fact I'd go so far to to suggest that that philosophy is at the very heart of most of what people find most annoying about our world today.

Not that business exists, but that everything much be reduced to the bottom line, even if by doing so we make our world a place where the only thing that matters is money, and NOT people.

But hey, I realize that that is my prejudiced value system speaking, too.

Still, I think we need to strike a balance between the business of living in a material world, and the art of being humans living in the complex and sometimes perplexing society those businesses helped to create.

The market will eventually price itself out of range as many people realize they are no longer going to spend large sums of money on useless degrees and we will bust back to colleges teaching LEGITIMATE college material.

You bias against academic subjects notwithstanding, to suggest that those academic fields are "crap" is sort of shortsighted, I think.

One of the "crap" subjects you are complaining about is the one which makes it possible for you and I to be having this discussion right now, champ. It's called the ART of rhetoric.

I'd go so far as to say that while the techical fields make a wealthier civilized life possible, the subjects which you are now characterizings as "crap" ARE just as important to having a civilized world as any techology we will ever invent or discover.

It would be an impoverished world indeed if there were no arts or social sciences, I think.

So, to summarize, while I completely agree with you that only the scions can really afford a liberal arts education, today, I think the world is a sadder, meaner, and less humanistic place, because of that change in our value system.

Liberal arts and science are really the foundation upon which the technical sciences were built.

We need experts in all fields, but we also need to fund those fields so that they too can continue to bring good things to life.

And that is what this society is failing to do.

Now I happen to be an educator.

I need funding, just like any scientist or engineer does, to build my educational system.

Believe me when I tell you that money is tight in that field.

And that really is a damned shame too, because I have to tell you that the return on investment for my project is better than the return on investment for most things that we invest in in this society.

For the price of a medium sized tank, I could develop an online educational system that would serve millions people a year for NOTHING.

As my mother would have said, we are being penny wise and pound foolish, when it comes to investing in education.


I get notices for grant funding every day by email/

90% of them are for science and technology funding and very very few of them have anything to do with the BUSINESS of education.