Collective bargaining is not a right.

[boedicca]

The right to assembly and the right to persue life, liberty and happiness.

None of these include a right to force others to sign agreements against their wills.

 

[boedicca]

The right to assembly and the right to persue life, liberty and happiness.

So, by that logic, I have the right to walk into someone's home and take their TV because it aids to my happiness. Gotcha. You want anarchy. Super.

She's Rob Lewis' Mom.

 

[Liberty]

I disagree. People do have the right to bargain collectively. However, they do not have the right to not be kicked out on their ass if they abuse it.

Where does the right originate, exactly?

Depends on who you ask.

Some say God/creator, some say rights are innate, some say the Constitution.

Take your pick.

I have every right to round up one or more colleagues, walk into the bosses office and demand that we all get a 10% raise or we're not doing anymore work. Do you actually believe I don't have any right to do that? But like I said, if the boss tells us not to let the door hit us on the ass on the way out, we have no right to keep our job.

Care to directly quote any philosopher whose cornerstone is personal freedom (as that is what the USA is based on) who declares this right is unalienable? Perhaps a founding father to back up God/creator or Constitution. In my research I have not found any such mention, so please enlighten me.

 

[Truthmatters]

They are not forced to, its an negociated agreement.

You just dont like the little guy to have any power over their lives.

 

[Sallow]

this is why we have the rule of law instead of the force of a mob.

What the unions want is to force taxpayers into agreements where the latter's interests are not represented. Nobody has such a right.

so when history/reality/logic/constitution agree with you..it's the "will of the american people" and when they don't it's "mob rules".

Got it.

fixed.

You're a little weasel. You can't argue on the merits of your arguments..so you have to edit posts.

And posts that weren't even directed to you.

 

[manifold]

The proper mechanism to make changes is via the legislative process. If the American people truly wish collective bargaining to be a right, then the Constitution should be amended. I doubt there is enough real desire for such.

Again I disagree. As far as I'm concerned it's already covered.

But like other rights, you're free to exercise it but you're not free to avoid the potential consequences.

 

[boedicca]

Where does the right originate, exactly?

Depends on who you ask.

Some say God/creator, some say rights are innate, some say the Constitution.

Take your pick.

I have every right to round up one or more colleagues, walk into the bosses office and demand that we all get a 10% raise or we're not doing anymore work. Do you actually believe I don't have any right to do that? But like I said, if the boss tells us not to let the door hit us on the ass on the way out, we have no right to keep our job.

Care to directly quote any philosopher whose cornerstone is personal freedom (as that is what the USA is based on) who declares this right is unalienable? Perhaps a founding father to back up God/creator or Constitution. In my research I have not found any such mention, so please enlighten me.

Good point. I'd also like to see the evidence from the founders which shows that The Constitution provides special rights for government workers separate and superior to those if The People.

 

[Liberty]

So, to those who say it is a right, where EXACTLY does it come from? Help me out here, quote some philosophers etc. Thanks.

 

[boedicca]

The proper mechanism to make changes is via the legislative process. If the American people truly wish collective bargaining to be a right, then the Constitution should be amended. I doubt there is enough real desire for such.

Again I disagree. As far as I'm concerned it's already covered.

But like other rights, you're free to exercise it but you're not free to avoid the potential consequences.

And you're wrong. But thanks for sharing.

 

[Gadawg73]

Don't you just love collective "bargaining" and unions?
New York has a teacher's union and, like all states, a budget DEFICIT and needs to lay off teachers.
And there are 4000 teachers out of the 80,000+ teachers in NYC that do nothing as they are being disciplined and they do not teach. The city needs to lay off 6000 teachers and wants to can those 4000 because they are bad teachers.
And the union fights that every time. They are fighting getting rid of the "rubber room teachers" that NYC and every organization that has unions have to put up with.
The union mentality is that seniority is better than QUALIFICATIONS AND PERFORMANCE.
The teacher of the year there will be fired under union "first in stays, last in goes" stance while the bad teachers, many that have abused children, CAN NOT BE FIRED.

 

[manifold]

Where does the right originate, exactly?

Depends on who you ask.

Some say God/creator, some say rights are innate, some say the Constitution.

Take your pick.

I have every right to round up one or more colleagues, walk into the bosses office and demand that we all get a 10% raise or we're not doing anymore work. Do you actually believe I don't have any right to do that? But like I said, if the boss tells us not to let the door hit us on the ass on the way out, we have no right to keep our job.

Care to directly quote any philosopher whose cornerstone is personal freedom (as that is what the USA is based on) who declares this right is unalienable? Perhaps a founding father to back up God/creator or Constitution. In my research I have not found any such mention, so please enlighten me.

Why are you trying to over complicate the matter? Is it because you are beginning to realize the flaw in your position? Let's hope so because it is quite flawed.

Very simple question: Do I not have the right to round up one or more willing colleagues and standing together with them, demand a 10% raise or we stop working? Yes or No?

 

[Sallow]

The proper mechanism to make changes is via the legislative process. If the American people truly wish collective bargaining to be a right, then the Constitution should be amended. I doubt there is enough real desire for such.

No it doesn't.

Unions/management dealings..should be a private matter. Government shouldn't get involved.

And that's the problem. They usually are rushing in with police or national guard to break up strikes.

It's only recently (around the time of FDR) they have begun to mediate a bit more fairly. But that's been changing.

But according to the Constitution..they can peacefully assemble around a factory..and demand higher wages. And according to Conservatives..they can be armed.

 

[Claudette]

Hell. Even dumb as a box o rocks Carter knew what would happen if Fed workers were allowed to "collectivly bargain."

Guess his loyalty to the Unions took a hit on that one.

What the private sector does is their businss.

What the public sector does is the business of the taxpayers who will be paying the bill.

 

[Liberty]

Depends on who you ask.

Some say God/creator, some say rights are innate, some say the Constitution.

Take your pick.

I have every right to round up one or more colleagues, walk into the bosses office and demand that we all get a 10% raise or we're not doing anymore work. Do you actually believe I don't have any right to do that? But like I said, if the boss tells us not to let the door hit us on the ass on the way out, we have no right to keep our job.

Care to directly quote any philosopher whose cornerstone is personal freedom (as that is what the USA is based on) who declares this right is unalienable? Perhaps a founding father to back up God/creator or Constitution. In my research I have not found any such mention, so please enlighten me.

Why are you trying to over complicate the matter? Is it because you are beginning to realize the flaw in your position? Let's hope so because it is quite flawed.

Very simple question: Do I not have the right to round up one or more willing colleagues and standing together with them, demand a 10% raise or we stop working? Yes or No?

What are you talking about? The rights I support are those of Locke, Bastiat, and somewhat Mill, Cicero of course, and the influence they had on Madison and those who worked on the Constitution. That lays out the rights of man and Americans, so...I am simply missing where it is the right of a government employee to extract tax money for their own gain.

To answer your question, You have that right, but don't be surprised when you are fired.

 

[konradv]

You have a right to peacefully assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances, but you don't have the right to collectively bargain. This is fantasy. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, or collectively bargain? Which one ACTUALLY appears in the bill of rights? That's what I thought. Commies, go home.

Collective bargaining as a right IS NOT a fantasy. Do you have the right to drive a car? I don't see that in the Constitution!!! Your thesis promotes Constitutional Rights as if they were the only rights, but there are also Legislative Rights. When a legislature writes a law saying that workers may participate in collective bargaining, they are saying workers have the RIGHT to bargain collectively. Those rights are more easily abridged than Constitutional Rights, but they're rights just the same, until the legislature takes them away.

 

[Liberty]

You have a right to peacefully assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances, but you don't have the right to collectively bargain. This is fantasy. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, or collectively bargain? Which one ACTUALLY appears in the bill of rights? That's what I thought. Commies, go home.

Collective bargaining as a right IS NOT a fantasy. Do you have the right to drive a car? I don't see that in the Constitution!!! Your thesis promotes Constitutional Rights as if they were the only rights, but there are also Legislative Rights. When a legislature writes a law saying that workers may participate in collective bargaining, they are saying workers have the RIGHT to bargain collectively. Those rights are more easily abridged than Constitutional Rights, but they're rights just the same, until the legislature takes them away.

Driving a car is not a right, moron. If it was, by your logic, shouldn't the government provide everyone a car? Get your logic straight, you sound like the other useful idiots. What gives the public employees a "RIGHT" to extract tax money for their own benefit, that is STEALING from others, is it not?

 

[konradv]

You have a right to peacefully assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances, but you don't have the right to collectively bargain. This is fantasy. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, or collectively bargain? Which one ACTUALLY appears in the bill of rights? That's what I thought. Commies, go home.

Collective bargaining as a right IS NOT a fantasy. Do you have the right to drive a car? I don't see that in the Constitution!!! Your thesis promotes Constitutional Rights as if they were the only rights, but there are also Legislative Rights. When a legislature writes a law saying that workers may participate in collective bargaining, they are saying workers have the RIGHT to bargain collectively. Those rights are more easily abridged than Constitutional Rights, but they're rights just the same, until the legislature takes them away.

Driving a car is not a right, moron. If it was, by your logic, shouldn't the government provide everyone a car? Get your logic straight, you sound like the other useful idiots.

Oh yeah, try driving without a license and speeding by a cop. You're just playing with words. No, my logic in NO WAY implies that the government should buy everyone a car. The fact that you used that as an example, plainly shows who the moron is.

 

[LilOlLady]

International protection

The right to collectively bargain is recognized through international human rights conventions. Article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights identifies the ability to organize trade unions as a fundamental human right.[3] Item 2(a) of the International Labour Organization's Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work defines the "freedom of association and the effective recognition of the right to collective bargaining" as an essential right of workers.[4]

In June 2007 the Supreme Court of Canada extensively reviewed the rationale for regarding collective bargaining as a human right. In the case of Facilities Subsector Bargaining Association v. British Columbia, the Court made the following observations:

The right to bargain collectively with an employer enhances the human dignity, liberty and autonomy of workers by giving them the opportunity to influence the establishment of workplace rules and thereby gain some control over a major aspect of their lives, namely their work... Collective bargaining is not simply an instrument for pursuing external ends…rather [it] is intrinsically valuable as an experience in self-government... Collective bargaining permits workers to achieve a form of workplace democracy and to ensure the rule of law in the workplace. Workers gain a voice to influence the establishment of rules that control a major aspect of their lives.[5]

Collective bargaining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[boedicca]

Um. The U.S. is not governed by the UN or Canada.

 

[Liberty]

Collective bargaining as a right IS NOT a fantasy. Do you have the right to drive a car? I don't see that in the Constitution!!! Your thesis promotes Constitutional Rights as if they were the only rights, but there are also Legislative Rights. When a legislature writes a law saying that workers may participate in collective bargaining, they are saying workers have the RIGHT to bargain collectively. Those rights are more easily abridged than Constitutional Rights, but they're rights just the same, until the legislature takes them away.

Driving a car is not a right, moron. If it was, by your logic, shouldn't the government provide everyone a car? Get your logic straight, you sound like the other useful idiots.

Oh yeah, try driving without a license and speeding by a cop. You're just playing with words. No, my logic in NO WAY implies that the government should buy everyone a car. The fact that you used that as an example, plainly shows who the moron is.

"playing with words"? That is what you call using words in their proper definition? I use your own logic against you, and you still don't see the error in your line of thinking. That is your choice, but a right is something that CAN NOT be taken away, unless a law is violated and proven, which is called a consequence for criminal activity. No one has the right to drive, it is a privilege that you secure for your own convenience under your own effort, it is not inherent at birth, which is what a RIGHT is by definition. I feel like I am educating a 3rd grader in basic civics.