CO2 Follows Temperature

Discussion in 'Environment' started by SSDD, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. SSDD
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    SSDD Gold Member

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    A new study by Ole Humlum, Kjell Stordahl, and Jan-Erik Solheim, published in the journal Global and Planetary Change finds that (surprise surprise) CO2 follows changes in temperature as opposed to the common belief by warmists that CO2 drives temperatures. This study finds the lag between temperature and changes in atmospheric CO2 holds true on the millineum, century, yearly, and monthly time scales.

    ScienceDirect.com - Global and Planetary Change - The phase relation between atmospheric carbon dioxide and global temperature

    Sad that this would actually require a study since ice cores have been telling us this very thing for decades in spite of the beliefs and wishes of warmists.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  2. flacaltenn
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    flacaltenn USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    This is a noble and novel study in that it looks at Modern Era correlation and phasing of CO2 vs Temp.. But I'm a little bit concerned about discerning the "phase lead or lag" issue from a CO2 concentration trend that is so monotonic. (meaning so predictably linear).

    It's hard to find ANY changes in the CO2 RATE in that time period. And the ones that they appear to be using are tiny compared to the overall rate of increase in CO2.

    What we need to make this valid is an abrupt CHANGE in the CO2 build rate. MAYBE SSDD -- we'll get something like that since the news that US CO2 emissions have fallen drastically recently. Or we could get a spike in CO2 going the other way due to fears of the Fukushima accident and large industrial nations cutting back on nuclear.

    Applying the SAME TECHNIQUES as this study does, on a noticeable spike -- that would NAIL the argument for MODERN times. As opposed to arguing about CO2/Temp during a series of ice ages that ARE NOT TYPICAL for today's climate..
     
  3. IanC
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    IanC Gold Member

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    Chemistry tells us that increasing the concentration on one side of the equation affects the equilibrium. Manmade CO2 has sn effect, how ever small. It is easy to see how CO2 is naturally tied to temp, it is not so easy to see how temperature is tied to extra CO2. Skeptics should not make the same mistake as warmists by dismissing legitimate concerns.
     
  4. SSDD
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    SSDD Gold Member

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    Personally, I lean more towards the atmospheric thermal effect as described by nikolov. Such an effect is predicted and has been proven in laboratory experiments as opposed to the mainstream greenhouse effect which, at present, stands on a great many claims but no actual experimental or observational evidence.
     
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  5. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    Modern CO2 is different, it just is!

    It melts the ice caps and turns the oceans to acid.

    Uh huh.

    Really
     
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  6. SSDD
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    SSDD Gold Member

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    So they say. Must be multivitimins, or maybe metabolic steroids.
     
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  7. polarbear
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    polarbear I eat morons

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    It`s a fact that the solubility of gasses in water decreases as temperature increases, CO2 is no exception:
    [​IMG]
    It`s also a fact that :
    Carbon Dioxide in the Ocean and Atmosphere - sea, depth, oceans, important, system, plants, marine, oxygen, human, Pacific
    Which brings up another interesting fact, that "climate science" likes to ignore:
    Last year I posted an experiment that anyone could do at home.
    {fill up a bottle with CO2 gas-(You can get it from your neighborhood pub that has a draft beer dispenser)-drill a hole into a cork, insert a straw and cork the bottle, then dip the straw into a bowl of water-watch how the CO2 sucks up the water}....and was of course ridiculed, like "what`s that supposed to prove?"
    Pretty dumb question, don`t you think?...considering 7/10 of the earth`s surface is water.
    Here is another fact:
    So then, if CO2 is the cause of all evil, what`s so bad if some more of the sea ice is melting? ....Right...!....:
    [​IMG]

    Chris Matthews Glad U.S. Had Hurricane Sandy
    [​IMG]


    I wonder how much longer we have to wait for some"global warming" in Canada. Each year for the last 10 years winter comes earlier and hangs in longer. We got dumped on since middle October
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_Hy0r7-nps&list=UUvj7dbOY14kt_MFIR1Y1iwA&index=1&feature=plcp"]Rez Tex to the rescue - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  8. konradv
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    konradv Gold Member

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    Maximum solubility decreases, but that's only relevant, if we're near maximum. If we're not near maximum, increasing ocean temps would not effect how much atmospheric CO2 becomes solubilized.
     
  9. Dot Com
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    Dot Com Nullius in verba Supporting Member

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    AGW deniers be forewarned :nono:
     
  10. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    AGW Culters, they have faith, they don't need facts
     
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