Clunkers program could drive used car prices up

[Shogun]

In my opinion, the federal government has no business subsidizing the purchase of automobiles.

...but I guess it was ok when bush was busy doling out tax credits for SUV purchases,...

 

[Shogun]

Well you'll have to forgive me for not supporting those who take away from society rather than contributing to it.

yea dude! because a fucking mexican paper really does contribute to the AMERICAN culture outside of dropping our wages to compete with those who sill work from clean water and a fucking daily taco.

SURE!

Not having to pay higher prices for steel means the American consumer has more money to spend elsewhere.

no, it really doesn't. ESPECIALLY when that "AMERICAN CONSUMER" finds himself without a job because his labor was cheaper in dirt floor mexico. Any other bullshit non sequiters you'd like to add?

 

[Shogun]

In a free market there are losers based on their own bad decisions. When the government intervenes they create an imbalance and cause undue pain to those who have done nothing wrong. In this case, the American auto-industry has made terrible business decisions, and now the poorest in our society are paying higher prices for used cars so the government can prop up this auto-industry.

No, there are losers REGARDLESS. Tell me how 10 construction contracters who bid on the same fucking job ALL just make poor choices. ITS THE NATURE OF CONTRACT BIDDING THAT ONE WILL WIN WHILE ALL ELSE LOSES. Give me a fucking break. And, until you cite numbers that support your chicken little rant you dont get to use phrases like "and now the poorest in our society are paying higher prices for used cars so the government can prop up this auto-industry". If 5 people don't buy a goddamn used car when 5 thousand benefit from CFC then your entire premise is a giant bowl of thriple stacked fail. But, you don't have relative numbers, do you.

So you think there are only five people in America right now considering buying a used car? Get serious.

As to your construction situation, the one who is able to do the job for the least amount of money is the winner. The rest lost because they weren't able to offer the same service for a lower price. Or maybe the winner is a little more expensive but does a much better job. The losers lose because they can't compete.

compared to the THOUSANDS that re out benefiting from CFC? No, YOU get serious. Either post your numbers or shut the fuck up about it.

Indeed, the rest LOST. which, again, is an inherent factor in capitalism anyway.. so, your b ig concern for the little used car driving cuy is pretty fucking disingenuous. EVEN IF THEY CANT COMPETE THEY HAVE TO FEED THEIR FUCKING FAMILIES. Please, spare me your used car concern when you so flippantly disregard 9/10 contractors who, by the very nature of our capitalist system, will lose.

 

[Shogun]

No, we can't hold peoples hands and they do need to make their own decisions. However, if we subvert market forces and incentivize these people to take risks then aren't we doing the same thing we did to cause this recession in the first place?

Yes, trashing a huge number of perfectly good used cars will cause a shortage and raise prices.

I'm not ignoring it. However, many of them would otherwise get a used car because they really can't afford a new car in the first place.

Reducing the price of some used car parts. The ones that can't be salvaged are going to skyrocket in price, and no used cars will not go down in price.

What about first time car buyers and those who don't have a car to trade in? They're going to suffer through the higher price of used cars. It will not wash. The imbalance is unlikely to be made up in getting a higher price for their trade in.

they probably were never going to buy one of these gas guzzlers as a first used car in the first place kev...these type of gas guzzler used cars are the LEAST desirable....

i still think it is not anything of great concern...

if the dealers ran a promo, giving 3500 to 4500 for your trade, (but were not trashing the trade for the gvt), this promotiom would have been JUST as successful for them....

that would have been just a promotion dealers decided to run to increase their business...it still would have inflated the normal rate of sales for new cars...would that still be considered artificially inflated or just part of the business's marketing strategy???

The difference between your scenario and what's reality is that in your scenario these companies do this by private initiative because they feel they can afford to take the risk. It would be a temporary program and not subsidized by the American taxpayer. If the companies were able to offer this on their own then I'd have no problem with it because it would mean they're healthy and willing to take a risk. However, because it's the government doing it we know that this industry is not healthy and that it's actually a drain on society rather than productive for society.

your opinion on what is a drain and what is productive means two things. Im sure you iknow what they are. I suggest you enjoy dealing with the aftermath of a presidential election and get your grass root effort on in 2012.

 

[Intense]

Yeah right Shogun, We lost. We lost when McCain got the nomination. That was a no win scenario.

That does not mean that You as the victors, get our, Pin Numbers and Credit Card Account numbers.

It does not entitle you to do with auto's that which you did with housing.

Russia Nationalized. Hitler Nationalized. Mao Nationalized. Used to be three strikes.

 

[Shogun]

Yeah right Shogun, We lost. We lost when McCain got the nomination. That was a no win scenario.

That does not mean that You as the victors, get our, Pin Numbers and Credit Card Account numbers.

It does not entitle you to do with auto's that which you did with housing.

Russia Nationalized. Hitler Nationalized. Mao Nationalized. Used to be three strikes.

uh, who is asking for your pin numbers and credit cars, drama queen? Please, post your evidence.

Go ask Stephen motherfucking Hawking, a British resident in care of nationalized health for damn near his entire life, how horrible their coverage is. Or, keep doling out fragile talking points. whatever is clever.

 

[Shogun]

ps.. you lost out of your own political failures. Learn your lesson and don't let your bleeding pussy drip on America's shaggy carpet. Pick better candidates.

 

[GHook93]

Used car sales were actually doing well during the credit crunch. People weren't buying new cars they were opting for the less expensive used cars. However, ever person utilizing the cash for clunkers program is one potential customer taking away from the thriving used car business. They don't like the program, because they could potentially lose business. Therefore they use a scare tactic argue that it will drive up used car prices, even though any car that qualifies for the cash for clunkers program probably isn't worth much in resale to the used car industry anyways!

Always look to who has the vested interest in making a claim before you hold it out as fact!

 

[nodoginnafight]

Always look to who has the vested interest in making a claim before you hold it out as fact!

A very good point. I think we've come to the point where the ability to grade information sources is a very important tool in maintaining an informed electorate.

 

[Intense]

Yeah right Shogun, We lost. We lost when McCain got the nomination. That was a no win scenario.

That does not mean that You as the victors, get our, Pin Numbers and Credit Card Account numbers.

It does not entitle you to do with auto's that which you did with housing.

Russia Nationalized. Hitler Nationalized. Mao Nationalized. Used to be three strikes.

uh, who is asking for your pin numbers and credit cars, drama queen? Please, post your evidence.

Go ask Stephen motherfucking Hawking, a British resident in care of nationalized health for damn near his entire life, how horrible their coverage is. Or, keep doling out fragile talking points. whatever is clever.

I'm Sorry, My Mistake, Big Brother does not need Pin Numbers and account Numbers, They Already Have Them. They have access to what ever they want. I'll choose Liberty. You are bought and paid for like a cheap date with your Nationalism and your mouth.

 

[Shogun]

Yeah right Shogun, We lost. We lost when McCain got the nomination. That was a no win scenario.

That does not mean that You as the victors, get our, Pin Numbers and Credit Card Account numbers.

It does not entitle you to do with auto's that which you did with housing.

Russia Nationalized. Hitler Nationalized. Mao Nationalized. Used to be three strikes.

uh, who is asking for your pin numbers and credit cars, drama queen? Please, post your evidence.

Go ask Stephen motherfucking Hawking, a British resident in care of nationalized health for damn near his entire life, how horrible their coverage is. Or, keep doling out fragile talking points. whatever is clever.

I'm Sorry, My Mistake, Big Brother does not need Pin Numbers and account Numbers, They Already Have Them. They have access to what ever they want. I'll choose Liberty. You are bought and paid for like a cheap date with your Nationalism and your mouth.

Like I said... post your evidence or shut the fuck up. THERE is your choice.

 

[Intense]

uh, who is asking for your pin numbers and credit cars, drama queen? Please, post your evidence.

Go ask Stephen motherfucking Hawking, a British resident in care of nationalized health for damn near his entire life, how horrible their coverage is. Or, keep doling out fragile talking points. whatever is clever.

I'm Sorry, My Mistake, Big Brother does not need Pin Numbers and account Numbers, They Already Have Them. They have access to what ever they want. I'll choose Liberty. You are bought and paid for like a cheap date with your Nationalism and your mouth.

Like I said... post your evidence or shut the fuck up. THERE is your choice.

Who's making the pay-off? Where did the Government get the money, where will they get it? The Federal government Just effectively took over two car companies by eminent domain, cheating Bond Holders, and Preferred Stock holders out of Legal Property, with the Courts and Attorney Generals, standing by sucking their thumbs like you suck what you suck, and set up this scheme, that is tax payer funded? You demand proof from me? Wipe your own ass freak.

I reject you and your limitation. Do I bow to your expectation or take instruction from you pencil neck. You are a lying unreasoning ass and I'm not your dad, I do feel sorry for him though. What comes around goes around, Comrade. When are you gonna wake the fuck up, when you realize the cuffs are too tight? Take your own advise.

 

[AmericanPatriot]

I'm just a poor ole working stiff that drives a 25 yr old Toyota pick up and barely makes ends meet. BUT I would like someone to explain to me why my tax dollars are being used to help someone that makes a hell of a lot more money than I do , buy a frigging new car.
This is NOT the governments money. ITS MINE AND YOURS.
If you want to stimulate the economy then stop spending me into deeper poverty.
I can't afford much more of this fix.

 

[Shogun]

I'm Sorry, My Mistake, Big Brother does not need Pin Numbers and account Numbers, They Already Have Them. They have access to what ever they want. I'll choose Liberty. You are bought and paid for like a cheap date with your Nationalism and your mouth.

Like I said... post your evidence or shut the fuck up. THERE is your choice.

Who's making the pay-off? Where did the Government get the money, where will they get it? The Federal government Just effectively took over two car companies by eminent domain, cheating Bond Holders, and Preferred Stock holders out of Legal Property, with the Courts and Attorney Generals, standing by sucking their thumbs like you suck what you suck, and set up this scheme, that is tax payer funded? You demand proof from me? Wipe your own ass freak.

I reject you and your limitation. Do I bow to your expectation or take instruction from you pencil neck. You are a lying unreasoning ass and I'm not your dad, I do feel sorry for him though. What comes around goes around, Comrade. When are you gonna wake the fuck up, when you realize the cuffs are too tight? Take your own advise.

A "no, I'm a candy bitch and have no evidence, Shogun" would have worked just as well.

EVIDENCE of your ASSUMPTION is a limitation, eh? oooook. No wonder your kind fell hook, line and sinker for those mobile chem lab reasons to invade iraq.




ps.. might wanna tone down the family references, lil guy.. It's one of the quicker ways to get yourself perma banned. fair warning.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No, there are losers REGARDLESS. Tell me how 10 construction contracters who bid on the same fucking job ALL just make poor choices. ITS THE NATURE OF CONTRACT BIDDING THAT ONE WILL WIN WHILE ALL ELSE LOSES. Give me a fucking break. And, until you cite numbers that support your chicken little rant you dont get to use phrases like "and now the poorest in our society are paying higher prices for used cars so the government can prop up this auto-industry". If 5 people don't buy a goddamn used car when 5 thousand benefit from CFC then your entire premise is a giant bowl of thriple stacked fail. But, you don't have relative numbers, do you.

So you think there are only five people in America right now considering buying a used car? Get serious.

As to your construction situation, the one who is able to do the job for the least amount of money is the winner. The rest lost because they weren't able to offer the same service for a lower price. Or maybe the winner is a little more expensive but does a much better job. The losers lose because they can't compete.

compared to the THOUSANDS that re out benefiting from CFC? No, YOU get serious. Either post your numbers or shut the fuck up about it.

Indeed, the rest LOST. which, again, is an inherent factor in capitalism anyway.. so, your b ig concern for the little used car driving cuy is pretty fucking disingenuous. EVEN IF THEY CANT COMPETE THEY HAVE TO FEED THEIR FUCKING FAMILIES. Please, spare me your used car concern when you so flippantly disregard 9/10 contractors who, by the very nature of our capitalist system, will lose.

The difference being that one group of people lost because they weren't able to provide a service for a good enough price, the other group losing directly because of a government program. In a market economy you want the best service for the least price, but propping up those who aren't able to provide the best service for the least price simply wastes resources and causes stagnation.

 

[Shogun]

So you think there are only five people in America right now considering buying a used car? Get serious.

As to your construction situation, the one who is able to do the job for the least amount of money is the winner. The rest lost because they weren't able to offer the same service for a lower price. Or maybe the winner is a little more expensive but does a much better job. The losers lose because they can't compete.

compared to the THOUSANDS that re out benefiting from CFC? No, YOU get serious. Either post your numbers or shut the fuck up about it.

Indeed, the rest LOST. which, again, is an inherent factor in capitalism anyway.. so, your b ig concern for the little used car driving cuy is pretty fucking disingenuous. EVEN IF THEY CANT COMPETE THEY HAVE TO FEED THEIR FUCKING FAMILIES. Please, spare me your used car concern when you so flippantly disregard 9/10 contractors who, by the very nature of our capitalist system, will lose.

The difference being that one group of people lost because they weren't able to provide a service for a good enough price, the other group losing directly because of a government program. In a market economy you want the best service for the least price, but propping up those who aren't able to provide the best service for the least price simply wastes resources and causes stagnation.

so says your theory.. but, in this post nafta America your theories mean two things. Again, you can rationalize how little you are concerned for losers when it comes to your pet econ opinion but it's still a giant bowl of disingenuous how, all of a sudden, you become the fucking champion of those who miss out just because a democrat president it putting forth a program that EXPONENTIALLY MORE Americans are currently bennifiting from than your hypothetical random integer value.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

compared to the THOUSANDS that re out benefiting from CFC? No, YOU get serious. Either post your numbers or shut the fuck up about it.

Indeed, the rest LOST. which, again, is an inherent factor in capitalism anyway.. so, your b ig concern for the little used car driving cuy is pretty fucking disingenuous. EVEN IF THEY CANT COMPETE THEY HAVE TO FEED THEIR FUCKING FAMILIES. Please, spare me your used car concern when you so flippantly disregard 9/10 contractors who, by the very nature of our capitalist system, will lose.

The difference being that one group of people lost because they weren't able to provide a service for a good enough price, the other group losing directly because of a government program. In a market economy you want the best service for the least price, but propping up those who aren't able to provide the best service for the least price simply wastes resources and causes stagnation.

so says your theory.. but, in this post nafta America your theories mean two things. Again, you can rationalize how little you are concerned for losers when it comes to your pet econ opinion but it's still a giant bowl of disingenuous how, all of a sudden, you become the fucking champion of those who miss out just because a democrat president it putting forth a program that EXPONENTIALLY MORE Americans are currently bennifiting from than your hypothetical random integer value.

Right, I'm against this program because it's a Democratic President in office rather than a Republican, and not because it goes against the laws of economics by propping up a failing industry and has a negative effect on the poorest among us.

 

[Shogun]

The difference being that one group of people lost because they weren't able to provide a service for a good enough price, the other group losing directly because of a government program. In a market economy you want the best service for the least price, but propping up those who aren't able to provide the best service for the least price simply wastes resources and causes stagnation.

so says your theory.. but, in this post nafta America your theories mean two things. Again, you can rationalize how little you are concerned for losers when it comes to your pet econ opinion but it's still a giant bowl of disingenuous how, all of a sudden, you become the fucking champion of those who miss out just because a democrat president it putting forth a program that EXPONENTIALLY MORE Americans are currently bennifiting from than your hypothetical random integer value.

Right, I'm against this program because it's a Democratic President in office rather than a Republican, and not because it goes against the laws of economics by propping up a failing industry and has a negative effect on the poorest among us.

:LAWS OF ECONOMICS", eh? Do I REALLY need to pouor salt on that one?

And yes. We could see a complete economic turnaround following CFC and the Presidents stimulus packages and your kind would CONTINUE to cry that the sky is falling as if no one remembers free trade testimony then versus now. Again, if you've got data on "the poor among us" then bust that shit out. Three opinions from a relative iota of the population just doesn't impress me any more than your favorite economic THEORIES do.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

so says your theory.. but, in this post nafta America your theories mean two things. Again, you can rationalize how little you are concerned for losers when it comes to your pet econ opinion but it's still a giant bowl of disingenuous how, all of a sudden, you become the fucking champion of those who miss out just because a democrat president it putting forth a program that EXPONENTIALLY MORE Americans are currently bennifiting from than your hypothetical random integer value.

Right, I'm against this program because it's a Democratic President in office rather than a Republican, and not because it goes against the laws of economics by propping up a failing industry and has a negative effect on the poorest among us.

:LAWS OF ECONOMICS", eh? Do I REALLY need to pouor salt on that one?

And yes. We could see a complete economic turnaround following CFC and the Presidents stimulus packages and your kind would CONTINUE to cry that the sky is falling as if no one remembers free trade testimony then versus now. Again, if you've got data on "the poor among us" then bust that shit out. Three opinions from a relative iota of the population just doesn't impress me any more than your favorite economic THEORIES do.

Pour salt on whatever you like.

We won't see any complete economic turnaround. How could we? The fundamentals of the economy are now worse than they were when this recession started.

 

[Shogun]

Right, I'm against this program because it's a Democratic President in office rather than a Republican, and not because it goes against the laws of economics by propping up a failing industry and has a negative effect on the poorest among us.

:LAWS OF ECONOMICS", eh? Do I REALLY need to pouor salt on that one?

And yes. We could see a complete economic turnaround following CFC and the Presidents stimulus packages and your kind would CONTINUE to cry that the sky is falling as if no one remembers free trade testimony then versus now. Again, if you've got data on "the poor among us" then bust that shit out. Three opinions from a relative iota of the population just doesn't impress me any more than your favorite economic THEORIES do.

Pour salt on whatever you like.

We won't see any complete economic turnaround. How could we? The fundamentals of the economy are now worse than they were when this recession started.

Your predictions about what we wont see is about as tangible as Greenspan's hindsight testimony. And, even if we don't see a fucking economic late 90s boom it's still an attempt to balance out our crippled production sector which has been gutted by, say it with me, free market economic theories ala dirt floor mexicans. If anything, the CFC program missed the mark by not being applied EXCLUSIVELY to domestic vehicles. Of course, i'm sure the very idea makes your hands shake with Greenspan rage.