Clueless

Unlike all the world religions, Islam alone has a 'NEST' that leads all the Muslims to paradise with Muhammad and Allah. The entire world of Muslims (Suniis and Shites) must believe only Islam must rule the world as you have said in previous post.

But if the city of Mecca, its black building the Kab'ah and the black stone seen in the site below are destroyed and fissionable waste is placed in the hole where this buildling stands, the 1.3 billion Muslims will go totally nuts much like a bees nest that is struck down and the bees begin stinging everything in site. Eventually they simply go away and die without their queen (Mecca and Kab'ah).

http://blessusa.homestead.com/blackstone.html

You cannot destroy 1.3 billion people all over the globe we live on but you can treat them the way they find honorable to treat all infidels (unbelievers).
 
Originally posted by freeandfun1

AJ: I agree with ya, but it ain't gonna happen......

You know freeaandfun1 it always amuses me when anyone uses words like never, always, ain't, forever or impossible.

There is only one thing that ALWAYS changes and that singular thing is CHANGE itself.

You believe in the Bible. Have you ever heard of 'when the nations who rise up against Israel will cause His anger to rise and will destroy them all? (Ezekiel)
 
Originally posted by freeandfun1

okay, agreed. i was too quick to say "never". but i think you get my drift.

I get your drift and agree with you that mankind will not do what is necessary to end this plague on the earth.

I think you get my drift.
 
wouldn't you agree that we had no choice (at the time) as we were trying to ensure the UN did not go the way of the League of Nations


With respect to the longevity of the U.N., considering the article you provided and Soviet/American co-operation described in it, I think it would be more accurate to say, we wanted the world to know that the Security Council was to be respected and obeyed.

So yes, there was a desire to legitimize the U.N., at least as far as the Security Council was concerned.

That's what it looks like to me.
 
Originally posted by Zhukov

With respect to the longevity of the U.N., considering the article you provided and Soviet/American co-operation described in it, I think it would be more accurate to say, we wanted the world to know that the Security Council was to be respected and obeyed. So yes, there was a desire to legitimize the U.N., at least as far as the Security Council was concerned. That's what it looks like to me.

Unfortunately the United Nations and the Security Council has become a joke as the tool of the majority Muslim countries. A money pit that the USA pours tax payer dollars into and the Secretrary General (Annan) steals billions from the food for oil program leaving the children of Iraq to go hungry and without medical care.

An abysmal failure....
 
Thank you so much to free! I think you said all I wanted to say.
 
Nutshell (all dates approximate):

The Hebrews (jews) first built a state in present-day Israel about a thousand years before Jesus.

For whatever reason, in about 200 A.D., the Roman Empire, which until then had tolerated the jewish state, up and destroyed it, and renamed it Palestine (referencing the Philistines, the jews enemies; the romans were jerks), as a province of their empire.

About 600 A.D. Islam originates, later conquers the area.

Brief period where crusaders re-take holy land. Lose it again.

After WW1, the area of Palestine is taken from the losers, the Ottoman Turks (Moslems), and given to the British

After WW2 and the holocaust, it is decided to re-create the Jewish homeland so all the jews have some place to go, since no one else wanted them. The British also gave up other land, all of which was used to create other Arab states, like Jordan.

The Arabs wanted all the land, so they attacked Israel.

Israel whooped them, and occupied land it considered strategic to it's defense.

And there we have it today.

Occupied lands:

Gaza Strip, southwest corner of Israel
West Bank (of the Jordan River), Jerusalem and eastern side of Israel
Golan Heights, northeast corner of Israel


Most moslems consider all of Israel occupied land and want to kill the inhabitants and take it all back.
Except for the fact that now Gaza is firmly in the hands of the Muslims, this is a fair synopsis of where we are now.
 
Nutshell (all dates approximate):

The Hebrews (jews) first built a state in present-day Israel about a thousand years before Jesus.

For whatever reason, in about 200 A.D., the Roman Empire, which until then had tolerated the jewish state, up and destroyed it, and renamed it Palestine (referencing the Philistines, the jews enemies; the romans were jerks), as a province of their empire.

About 600 A.D. Islam originates, later conquers the area.

Brief period where crusaders re-take holy land. Lose it again.

After WW1, the area of Palestine is taken from the losers, the Ottoman Turks (Moslems), and given to the British

After WW2 and the holocaust, it is decided to re-create the Jewish homeland so all the jews have some place to go, since no one else wanted them. The British also gave up other land, all of which was used to create other Arab states, like Jordan.

The Arabs wanted all the land, so they attacked Israel.

Israel whooped them, and occupied land it considered strategic to it's defense.

And there we have it today.

Occupied lands:

Gaza Strip, southwest corner of Israel
West Bank (of the Jordan River), Jerusalem and eastern side of Israel
Golan Heights, northeast corner of Israel


Most moslems consider all of Israel occupied land and want to kill the inhabitants and take it all back.
Except for the fact that now Gaza is firmly in the hands of the Muslims, this is a fair synopsis of where we are now.

How can Muslims be in control of Gaza when they don't control their borders, air space or territorial sea and Israel even collects the taxes?
 
How can Muslims be in control of Gaza when they don't control their borders, air space or territorial sea and Israel even collects the taxes?
Hamas has just as much control of who enters and exits Gaza by land. There are two main entrances and Egypt controls one of them just as much as Israel controls the other.

The main point of entry is the Rafah Crossing in the South, on the border with Egypt. Egyptian authorities have built a wall on it, and the only way in is through a road called the Philadelphi Route. The route is controlled by Hamas, and the point of entry and exit is controlled by Egyptian Police.

The second point of entry is through the Erez crossing in the north, on the border with Israel.<snip>Take a taxi to the Hamas checkpoint, another 800m down the road. The going rate is ₪3 per person. You will be searched for unlawful items (make sure you are, it's the hut to the right. Also visit the hut to the left to check your Hamas credentials -- new since October 2011). Prohibited goods include alcohol, banned by the Hamas government. If you fail inspection, then at best, your items will be confiscated.

Link: Gaza travel guide - Wikitravel

Keep twisting your pretzel.
 
How can Muslims be in control of Gaza when they don't control their borders, air space or territorial sea and Israel even collects the taxes?
Hamas has just as much control of who enters and exits Gaza by land. There are two main entrances and Egypt controls one of them just as much as Israel controls the other.

The main point of entry is the Rafah Crossing in the South, on the border with Egypt. Egyptian authorities have built a wall on it, and the only way in is through a road called the Philadelphi Route. The route is controlled by Hamas, and the point of entry and exit is controlled by Egyptian Police.

The second point of entry is through the Erez crossing in the north, on the border with Israel.<snip>Take a taxi to the Hamas checkpoint, another 800m down the road. The going rate is ₪3 per person. You will be searched for unlawful items (make sure you are, it's the hut to the right. Also visit the hut to the left to check your Hamas credentials -- new since October 2011). Prohibited goods include alcohol, banned by the Hamas government. If you fail inspection, then at best, your items will be confiscated.

Link: Gaza travel guide - Wikitravel

Keep twisting your pretzel.


Egypt controls the Raffah border and Egypt does what the U.S. and Israel says or it will lose U.S. aid. Morsi opened the border but he was overthrown by a military coup supported by the U.S. and Israel.

Keep digging.

:dig:
 
I don't want to come across as naive or uneducated, but I haven't really a clue of what is going on with Isreal and Palestine and whatnot. I've tried to learn (in school), but our teachers think we are the kids from The Wall and dont think we'll understand. I'm looking for facts and summaries, but anything I would appreciate. I feel like I'm missing out, and I want to expand my knowledge on current issues. Thanks.

Having read through 4 pages of "clueless" responses on this thread, I suspect you aren't going to be any better off than when you started. I suggest you read as many books on the subject from all sides of the argument and make your own determination. Employ critical thinking, ask questions and find out initially what isn't true, then work forward from there. Ignore the Bible, Quran and Torah; modern archaeology has largely disproved, or at the very least failed to confirm much of what is written in these works.

A good place to start is with Jonathan Schneer's "The Balfour Declaration" The Balfour Declaration: The Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict: Jonathan Schneer: 9780812976038: Amazon.com: Books it's quite readable and gets you through the nuts and bolts of how this mess started, then follow it up with Jame's Barr's "A line in the Sand", which takes the story forward after the time frame of the Balfour Declaration ends Amazon.com: A Line in the Sand: The Anglo-French Struggle for the Middle East, 1914-1948 (9780393344257): James Barr: Books

From there you have a reasonable grounding to decide where to go next. This is a complex mess so there are no simple answers. Do your research and make your own conclusions and remember that everyone lies to forward their agenda, especially on a political forum like this.
 
Last edited:
How can Muslims be in control of Gaza when they don't control their borders, air space or territorial sea and Israel even collects the taxes?
Hamas has just as much control of who enters and exits Gaza by land. There are two main entrances and Egypt controls one of them just as much as Israel controls the other.

The main point of entry is the Rafah Crossing in the South, on the border with Egypt. Egyptian authorities have built a wall on it, and the only way in is through a road called the Philadelphi Route. The route is controlled by Hamas, and the point of entry and exit is controlled by Egyptian Police.

The second point of entry is through the Erez crossing in the north, on the border with Israel.<snip>Take a taxi to the Hamas checkpoint, another 800m down the road. The going rate is ₪3 per person. You will be searched for unlawful items (make sure you are, it's the hut to the right. Also visit the hut to the left to check your Hamas credentials -- new since October 2011). Prohibited goods include alcohol, banned by the Hamas government. If you fail inspection, then at best, your items will be confiscated.

Link: Gaza travel guide - Wikitravel

Keep twisting your pretzel.


Egypt controls the Raffah border and Egypt does what the U.S. and Israel says or it will lose U.S. aid. Morsi opened the border but he was overthrown by a military coup supported by the U.S. and Israel.

Keep digging.

:dig:

It's remarkable how the really angry Islamic terrorist huggers all flail their Pom Poms for the same goofy conspiracy theories.

A shared pathology?
 
Nutshell (all dates approximate):

The Hebrews (jews) first built a state in present-day Israel about a thousand years before Jesus.

For whatever reason, in about 200 A.D., the Roman Empire, which until then had tolerated the jewish state, up and destroyed it, and renamed it Palestine (referencing the Philistines, the jews enemies; the romans were jerks), as a province of their empire.

About 600 A.D. Islam originates, later conquers the area.

Brief period where crusaders re-take holy land. Lose it again.

After WW1, the area of Palestine is taken from the losers, the Ottoman Turks (Moslems), and given to the British

After WW2 and the holocaust, it is decided to re-create the Jewish homeland so all the jews have some place to go, since no one else wanted them. The British also gave up other land, all of which was used to create other Arab states, like Jordan.

The Arabs wanted all the land, so they attacked Israel.

Israel whooped them, and occupied land it considered strategic to it's defense.

And there we have it today.

Occupied lands:

Gaza Strip, southwest corner of Israel
West Bank (of the Jordan River), Jerusalem and eastern side of Israel
Golan Heights, northeast corner of Israel


Most moslems consider all of Israel occupied land and want to kill the inhabitants and take it all back.
Except for the fact that now Gaza is firmly in the hands of the Muslims, this is a fair synopsis of where we are now.

How can Muslims be in control of Gaza when they don't control their borders, air space or territorial sea and Israel even collects the taxes?

Are you suggesting that the the Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza have no control over who enters and exits that mini-caliphate?

How fortunate for you that there is a thread entitled "clueless".
 
Egypt controls the Raffah border and Egypt does what the U.S. and Israel says or it will lose U.S. aid. Morsi opened the border but he was overthrown by a military coup supported by the U.S. and Israel.

Neither you nor Tinmore could conclusively prove this theory in another thread, have you some new evidence?
 
Egypt controls the Raffah border and Egypt does what the U.S. and Israel says or it will lose U.S. aid. Morsi opened the border but he was overthrown by a military coup supported by the U.S. and Israel.

Neither you nor Tinmore could conclusively prove this theory in another thread, have you some new evidence?

International Court of Justice


"26. Israel maintains that following the 2005 disengagement, it is no longer an occupying power in Gaza as it does not exercise effective control over the area.

27. However, the prevalent view within the international community is that Israel remains an occupying power in Gaza despite the 2005 disengagement. In general, this view is based on the scope and degree of control that Israel has retained over the territory of Gaza following the 2005 disengagement – including, inter alia, Israel’s exercise of control over border crossings, the territorial sea adjacent to the Gaza Strip, and the airspace of Gaza; its periodic military incursions within Gaza; its enforcement of no-go areas within Gaza near the border where Israeli settlements used to be; and its regulation of the local monetary market based on the Israeli currency and control of taxes and customs duties. The retention of such competences by Israel over the territory of Gaza even after the 2005 disengagement overall supports the conclusion that the authority retained by Israel amounts to effective control.

28. Although it no longer maintains a military presence in Gaza, Israel has not only shown the ability to conduct incursions into Gaza at will, but also expressly reserved the right to do so as required by military necessity. This consideration is potentially significant considering that there is support in international case law for the conclusion that it is not a prerequisite that a State maintain continuous presence in a territory in order to qualify as an occupying power. In particular, the ICTY has held that the law of occupation would also apply to areas where a state possesses “the capacity to send troops within a reasonable time to make the authority of the occupying power felt.” In this respect, it is also noted that the geographic proximity of the Gaza Strip to Israel potentially facilitates the ability of Israel to exercise effective control over the territory, despite the lack of a continuous military presence.

29. Overall, there is a reasonable basis upon which to conclude that Israel continues to be an occupying power in Gaza despite the 2005 disengagement. The Office has therefore proceeded on the basis that the situation in Gaza can be considered within the framework of an international armed conflict in view of the continuing military occupation by Israel."

https://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/otp/otp-com-article_53(1)-report-06nov2014eng.pdf
 
International Court of Justice


"26. Israel maintains that following the 2005 disengagement, it is no longer an occupying power in Gaza as it does not exercise effective control over the area.
<snip>

I'm sorry, but I read that over and over and never saw where it said, "Egypt does what the U.S. and Israel says or it will lose U.S. aid." that's why I didn't bother wasting board space by quoting the whole thing.
 

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