Clouds are negative forcers....who knew?

Discussion in 'Environment' started by westwall, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. westwall
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    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Certainly not the AGW cultists. They have allways assumed that clouds were a positive forcer, which flys in the face of logic, but that's not new with them is it?

    Yet another failure of the global warming models.

    Will they EVER get one correct?


    This study investigated variations in outgoing longwave radiation (OLR) in response to changes in sea surface temperature (SST) over the Pacific warm pool area (20°N–20°S, 130°E–170°W). OLR values were obtained from recent (January 2008–June 2010) geostationary window channel imagery at hourly resolution, which resolves processes associated with tropical convective clouds. We used linear regression analysis with the domain-averaged OLR and SST anomalies (i.e., ΔOLR, ΔSST; deviations from their 90-day moving averages). Results show that the regression slope appears to be significant only with SST least-affected by cloud radiative forcing, for which SST needs to be obtained as daily average over cloud-free regions (ΔSSTclear). The estimated value of ΔOLR/ΔSSTclear is 15.72 W m−2 K−1, indicating the presence of strong outgoing longwave radiation in response to surface warming. This atmospheric cooling effect is found to be primarily associated with reduced areal coverage of clouds (−14.4% K−1).



    The observed variation in cloud-induced longwave radiation in response to sea surface temperature over the Pacific warm pool from MTSAT-1R imagery
     
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  2. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    The Warmer models have accounted for that by totally ignoring it.
     
  3. mamooth
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    mamooth Gold Member Supporting Member

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    That's bizarre. I'm talking about Westwall's claim that "models always assumed clouds are a positive forcer". I wonder where he gets such nonsense. Back in the real world, models say clouds can have either negative or positive forcing effects, depending on the situation.

    But hey, congratulations to Westwall on his decisive refutation of yet another one of his strawmen.
     
  4. westwall
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    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    No, fool. Clouds can't have a "positive or negative forcing depending on the situation". In the real world pysical processes work the same....every time, regardless of whether you need it to be positive of negative based on whatever BS model you happen to be working on at that particular moment.

    You see dear child, that's the difference between REAL science and your politicized version of science.

    You can't fool Mother Nature because she can't be fooled...unlike you.
     
  5. mamooth
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    mamooth Gold Member Supporting Member

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    You realize not all clouds are the same? And that climate conditions are different across the globe? That would be the "depending on the situation" thing.

    Don't worry. The scientists do realize it. Your failure to grasp the basics only reflects badly on you. I could point you to the reports that talk about it in more detail, but what good would that do? It's not like you could understand them, being you're so emotionally invested in not understanding them.
     
  6. westwall
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    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Really. Not all clouds are the same. Who knew. Now, for the class, how do clouds form and what physical laws govern their behavior? And please, use your own words....no cutting and pasting.
     
  7. flacaltenn
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    flacaltenn USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Well those cheap Chinese models contain loads of mercury and arsenic and aren't as "fluffy" as those made in the good ole USA...


    Actually clouds during the day are negative feedback.. Clouds at night --- not so much... So when you put that into the AGW lexicon the "average effect" can be positive or negative... Since AGW'ers don't deal with specific physical processes -- just yearly global averages.


    :cool:
     
  8. westwall
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    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Even at night they are still negative forcers.
     
  9. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    The hell you say?

    You mean that more cloud cover means more solar radiation is being reflected back into space?

    Well, I'll be dipped!
     
  10. westwall
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    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I KNOW! Counterintuitive isn't it. I mean what the hell, cloud shadows controlling sunlight striking the Earth...what a load of horse dung!:lol::lol:
     

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