Climate Model Credibility Gap

IanC

Gold Member
Sep 22, 2009
11,061
1,344
245
Climate Model Credibility Gap The Resilient Earth (H/T crick)

"
Marine and terrestrial proxy records suggest that there was a peak in global warming between 10,000 and 6,000 years ago, following the end of the last glacial period. Since the Holocene Thermal Maximum, Earth has undergone global cooling. The physical mechanism responsible for this global cooling has remained unknown and doesn't fit in with the current CO2 based climate models. Those climate models generate a robust global annual mean warming throughout the Holocene, mainly in response to rising CO2 levels and albedo changes due to retreating of ice sheets. In other words, the models disagree with reality, and when models disagree with nature the models have a credibility gap. A new paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) says this model-data inconsistency indicates a critical reexamination of both proxy data and models is called for.

The fact that all the world's complex and expensive climate models can't explain climate change since the last glacial period ended is one of the little talked about embarrassments of climate science. In a new study, soon to be published in PNAS, a team led by Zhengyu Liu, a researcher at the Nelson Center for Climatic Research and Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, University of Wisconsin-Madison, has come out of the modeling closet to examine the model-data inconsistency.
"

what does this mean? it means that the current CO2 theory and feedbacks due to receding ice, etc predict that the Holocene should have continued to warm for the last ten thousand years instead of the early peak and slow decline shown by the proxies.

here is the PNAS paper and SI. http://www.pnas.org/content/111/34/E3501.full.pdf?with-ds=yes

"
Abstract
A recent temperature reconstruction of global annual temperature shows Early Holocene warmth followed by a cooling trend through the Middle to Late Holocene [Marcott SA, et al., 2013, Science 339(6124):1198–1201]. This global cooling is puzzling because it is opposite from the expected and simulated global warming trend due to the retreating ice sheets and rising atmospheric greenhouse gases. Our critical reexamination of this contradiction between the reconstructed cooling and the simulated warming points to potentially significant biases in both the seasonality of the proxy reconstruction and the climate sensitivity of current climate models.
"
and
"
Significance
Marine and terrestrial proxy records suggest global cooling during the Late Holocene, following the peak warming of the Holocene Thermal Maximum (∼10 to 6 ka) until the rapid warming induced by increasing anthropogenic greenhouses gases. However, the physical mechanism responsible for this global cooling has remained elusive. Here, we show that climate models simulate a robust global annual mean warming in the Holocene, mainly in response to rising CO2 and the retreat of ice sheets. This model-data inconsistency demands a critical reexamination of both proxy data and models.
"



it is common for the climate models to produce results that kinda, sorta look almost right if you squint your eyes in the right way, but they miss out on the actual important 'shape' of climate change. big volcanic eruptions are like this. the models produce gradual changes that are smaller and spread out more over time. reality is more abrupt with quick return to stasis. this pnas paper points out that there are major mechanisms still undiscovered, and that climate forcings as we define them in IPCC etc are insufficient for purpose. the idea that we can forecast future climate change with any reasonable skill or certainty is preposterous.
 
it is common for the climate models to produce results that kinda, sorta look almost right if you squint your eyes in the right way, but they miss out on the actual important 'shape' of climate change. big volcanic eruptions are like this. the models produce gradual changes that are smaller and spread out more over time. reality is more abrupt with quick return to stasis. this pnas paper points out that there are major mechanisms still undiscovered, and that climate forcings as we define them in IPCC etc are insufficient for purpose. the idea that we can forecast future climate change with any reasonable skill or certainty is preposterous.

For thousands of years the best weather "forecasts" were little more than knowing that it would be hot in summer and cold in winter.

Then people started collecting actual temperatures and using math to try and predict using the past temperatures what the future temperatures might be. This was a slow, tedious manual process and full of errors from both mistakes and a lack of data. With the advent of computers the calculations improved in speed and accuracy but it soon became apparent that the data was insufficient. So better data collection and tracking methods were developed.

Today we the benefit of radar and satellite data plus we know more about how the sun can impact the weather. We have also explored the ice cores and added that historical data into the models.

All of the above have vastly improved the weather forecasts so that they way better than they were a century ago.

As far as long term forecasting of climate change goes that too is similar to what happened with weather forecasts. Right now we don't have sufficient data points to make completely accurate predictions but it is a fallacy to assume that it is "preposterous" that it will never be possible in the future.

Just like the weather, it will never be 100% accurate but no one expects that. Climate models only need to predict trends and for that anything around 70-80% of more than sufficient.
 
it is common for the climate models to produce results that kinda, sorta look almost right if you squint your eyes in the right way, but they miss out on the actual important 'shape' of climate change. big volcanic eruptions are like this. the models produce gradual changes that are smaller and spread out more over time. reality is more abrupt with quick return to stasis. this pnas paper points out that there are major mechanisms still undiscovered, and that climate forcings as we define them in IPCC etc are insufficient for purpose. the idea that we can forecast future climate change with any reasonable skill or certainty is preposterous.

For thousands of years the best weather "forecasts" were little more than knowing that it would be hot in summer and cold in winter.

Then people started collecting actual temperatures and using math to try and predict using the past temperatures what the future temperatures might be. This was a slow, tedious manual process and full of errors from both mistakes and a lack of data. With the advent of computers the calculations improved in speed and accuracy but it soon became apparent that the data was insufficient. So better data collection and tracking methods were developed.

Today we the benefit of radar and satellite data plus we know more about how the sun can impact the weather. We have also explored the ice cores and added that historical data into the models.

All of the above have vastly improved the weather forecasts so that they way better than they were a century ago.

As far as long term forecasting of climate change goes that too is similar to what happened with weather forecasts. Right now we don't have sufficient data points to make completely accurate predictions but it is a fallacy to assume that it is "preposterous" that it will never be possible in the future.

Just like the weather, it will never be 100% accurate but no one expects that. Climate models only need to predict trends and for that anything around 70-80% of more than sufficient.


sorry, I dont know how to respond to you. I dont even know if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me.
 
Then people started collecting actual temperatures and using math to try and predict using the past temperatures what the future temperatures might be.
What people are those?

You're a fucking idiot. Nothing but a dumb-assed clown.

The Founding Fathers were "dumb-assed clowns"?

History of the National Weather Service

Colonial leaders who formed the path to independence of our country also were avid weather observers. Thomas Jefferson purchased a thermometer from a local Philadelphia merchant while in town for the adoption of the Declaration of Independence. He also purchased a barometer — one of the only ones in America at the time — a few days later from the same merchant. Incidentally, he noted that the high temperature in Philadelphia, Pa., on July 4, 1776 was 76 degrees. Jefferson made regular observations at Monticello from 1772-78, and participated in taking the first known simultaneous weather observations in America. George Washington also took regular observations; the last weather entry in his diary was made the day before he died.
 

Forum List

Back
Top