Climate change lies are exposed

[westwall]

What motivates PC and others like her to post? Is it motivated by some sort of economic interest, a need for attention or something worse, more pathological?
Pointing out the exception, false or misleading, or simply wrong data by one source, proves only that one source fucked up.
Of course we must ask why. But unless a world-wide conspiracy exists, the evidence I've read is strongly convincing something is going on causing extreme climate fluctuations. Yesterday my wife and I spent the day at the California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park.
The evidence of "global warming", or climate change is overwhelming, as are the potential consequences for life as we know it if we stay the course.
Even if the consequences are overstated, and even in the very unlikely event humans are not the actual cause of change, it's clear to me and to the scientific community that human behavior is at the very least the a proximate cause.
Conservatives whine and complain about leaving our children and theirs in debt, yet conservatives have no concen for the safety of the air our progeny breath, the water they drink or the food they consume.

Then you lead the way. Either remove yourself from the planet or retreat to the woods and no longer use any modern device. It's that simple....oh wait that's right, you're special....the rules don't apply to you right?.... Riiiiight.

 

[IanC]

Hardly unsubstanciated. Have to leave for work now, or I would post from the USGS concerning the retreat of the glaciers worldwide, including those in the Himalayas. There is a link for further data in this article.

Are glaciers growing or retreating?

Are glaciers growing or retreating?
Link to this pageThe skeptic argument...Glaciers are growing

"Reports are coming in from all over the world: for the first time in over 250 years, glaciers in Alaska, Canada, New Zealand, Greenland, and now Norway are growing." (JamulBlog)

What the science says...
While there are isolated cases of growing glaciers, the overwhelming trend in glaciers worldwide is retreat. In fact, the global melt rate has been accelerating since the mid-1970s.

Glaciers respond directly and quickly to atmospheric conditions. As temperatures warm, summer melting increases. However, accumulation of ice in the winter also increases due to more snowfall. Air temperature tends to play the dominant role - there's a strong statistical correlation between air temperature and glacier fluctuations over large distances (Greene 2005). Generally, when air temperatures warm, glaciers recede.

Consequently, because they're so sensitive to changes in temperature, glaciers provide clues about the effects of global warming. Glacier mass balance is measured through a variety of techniques. Direct glaciological methods include ablation stakes, snow pits and snow probing. This data is then combined with independent geodetic surveys, collected and published by the World Glacier Monitoring Service (WGMS).

Come on Old Rocks, stay on topic. If you want to post on glaciers go to a glacier thread. This thread is about false and misleading reports in the IPCC that have been brought to light, including the 2035 Himalayan Glacier fiasco.

Two years ago the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued a benchmark report that was claimed to incorporate the latest and most detailed research into the impact of global warming. A central claim was the world's glaciers were melting so fast that those in the Himalayas could vanish by 2035.

In the past few days the scientists behind the warning have admitted that it was based on a news story in the New Scientist, a popular science journal, published eight years before the IPCC's 2007 report.

It has also emerged that the New Scientist report was itself based on a short telephone interview with Syed Hasnain, a little-known Indian scientist then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi.

Hasnain has since admitted that the claim was "speculation" and was not supported by any formal research. If confirmed it would be one of the most serious failures yet seen in climate research. The IPCC was set up precisely to ensure that world leaders had the best possible scientific advice on climate change.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6991177.ece
also

Some scientists have questioned how the IPCC could have allowed such a mistake into print. Perhaps the most likely reason was lack of expertise. Lal himself admits he knows little about glaciers. "I am not an expert on glaciers.and I have not visited the region so I have to rely on credible published research. The comments in the WWF report were made by a respected Indian scientist and it was reasonable to assume he knew what he was talking about," he said.

Rajendra Pachauri, the IPCC chairman, has previously dismissed criticism of the Himalayas claim as "voodoo science".

Last week the IPCC refused to comment so it has yet to explain how someone who admits to little expertise on glaciers was overseeing such a report.

why is it that criticism of AGW always brings out insults like 'voodoo science', or 'that's not peer reviewed so its useless', and finally ends with 'it wasn't my fault' ?

And you didn't address my question about the global vegetation study. Would you support the IPCC if it referenced the original study or derivitive studies based on the same weak evidence, now that you know about flimsiness of the evidence. I know you would and did link those articles but do you think the IPCC should act in the same fashion?

 

[Bfgrn]

"THE world’s leading climate change body has been accused of losing credibility after a damning report into its research practices.


A high-level inquiry into the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change found there was “little evidence” for its claims about global warming.

It also said the panel had emphasised the negative impacts of climate change and made “substantive findings” based.

The review by the InterAcademy Council (IAC) was launched after the IPCC’s hugely embarrassing 2007 benchmark climate change report, which contained exaggerated and false claims that Himalayan glaciers could melt by 2035.

The panel was forced to admit its key claim in support of global warming was lifted from a 1999 magazine article. The report was based on an interview with a little-known Indian scientist who has since said his views were “speculation” and not backed by research.

Independent climate scientist Peter Taylor said last night: “The IPCC’s credibility has been deeply dented and something has to be done...."
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Climate change lies are exposed

And, in a related story, Chris and Old Rocks have entered rehab....

Peter Taylor, from his autobiography, ‘Shiva’s Rainbow’:

“In truth, in the scientific realms in which I worked, and gained by now, some standing, I was an impostor. I am not a scientist. Apart from my brief survey of tree-hole communities when I successfully correlated insect larvae diversity with circumference and aspect of the hole to the sun, which, in any case, had been done many times before, I have never ‘done’ science. In my work I have relied certainly upon an understanding of scientific theory and a memory for facts and relationships, and upon an instinct for the hidden and not yet known, but fundamentally I have been a linguist and an actor. My scientific degrees were linguistic exercises in critical review. My performances on television, in public inquiries, on tribunals and commissions, those of an extremely well-briefed lawyer, the ultimate actor. Which is not to say there is no dedication to truth.”

‘Climate Cover-up’

From the article:

David Holland is a member of the Institution of Engineering and Technology. He's an engineer who seems to have no climate science experience.
http://homepages.tesco.net/~kate-and-david/2007/Holland(2007).pdf

Inhofes List of Global Warming Deniers Without Climate Science Background

 

[westwall]

Hardly unsubstanciated. Have to leave for work now, or I would post from the USGS concerning the retreat of the glaciers worldwide, including those in the Himalayas. There is a link for further data in this article.

Are glaciers growing or retreating?

Are glaciers growing or retreating?
Link to this pageThe skeptic argument...Glaciers are growing

"Reports are coming in from all over the world: for the first time in over 250 years, glaciers in Alaska, Canada, New Zealand, Greenland, and now Norway are growing." (JamulBlog)

What the science says...
While there are isolated cases of growing glaciers, the overwhelming trend in glaciers worldwide is retreat. In fact, the global melt rate has been accelerating since the mid-1970s.

Glaciers respond directly and quickly to atmospheric conditions. As temperatures warm, summer melting increases. However, accumulation of ice in the winter also increases due to more snowfall. Air temperature tends to play the dominant role - there's a strong statistical correlation between air temperature and glacier fluctuations over large distances (Greene 2005). Generally, when air temperatures warm, glaciers recede.

Consequently, because they're so sensitive to changes in temperature, glaciers provide clues about the effects of global warming. Glacier mass balance is measured through a variety of techniques. Direct glaciological methods include ablation stakes, snow pits and snow probing. This data is then combined with independent geodetic surveys, collected and published by the World Glacier Monitoring Service (WGMS).

This is pure unadulterated bullshyte (which coming from you is par for the course I suppose) First off it is well reported that Swiss glaciers were melting faster in the 1940's than they are today.

Fast pace of glacier melt in the 1940s: lower aerosol pollution

Also, while the initial report of Himalayan glaciers would melt by 2035 was certainly a typo Pachauri refrained from correcting the mistake for TWO FULL MONTHS after he was informed of the problem, that now devolves it to a fraudulent use of data.

'Pachauri didn't correct glaciers' report despite being informed' - UK - World - The Times of India

Then of course there is the well known FACT that other than a period of advance in the Swiss Alps during the 1980's and New Zealand in the 1970's. worldwide glaciers have been in retreat since the 1860's!

Glaciers

And finally here is a report from the Geological Survey of India (you know where that is right, kind of a big country bordered by the Himalaya's and the Indian Ocean) that shows that currently 230 Western Himalayan glaciers are actually growing.

http://moef.nic.in/downloads/public-information/MoEF Discussion Paper _him.pdf

Himalayan Glaciers Seem to Be Growing : Discovery News

So what was that comment you made about how the "deniers" are allways lying? You are such a fool it defies belief.

 

[Meister]

What motivates PC and others like her to post? Is it motivated by some sort of economic interest, a need for attention or something worse, more pathological?
Pointing out the exception, false or misleading, or simply wrong data by one source, proves only that one source fucked up.
Of course we must ask why. But unless a world-wide conspiracy exists, the evidence I've read is strongly convincing something is going on causing extreme climate fluctuations. Yesterday my wife and I spent the day at the California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park.
The evidence of "global warming", or climate change is overwhelming, as are the potential consequences for life as we know it if we stay the course.
Even if the consequences are overstated, and even in the very unlikely event humans are not the actual cause of change, it's clear to me and to the scientific community that human behavior is at the very least the a proximate cause.
Conservatives whine and complain about leaving our children and theirs in debt, yet conservatives have no concen for the safety of the air our progeny breath, the water they drink or the food they consume.

The IPCC was not motivated by economic interests? Geeze.....they wanted to spread our wealth around the world.
Come back when you have something of substance, sonny......besides your liberal opinion.

 

[westwall]

"THE world’s leading climate change body has been accused of losing credibility after a damning report into its research practices.


A high-level inquiry into the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change found there was “little evidence” for its claims about global warming.

It also said the panel had emphasised the negative impacts of climate change and made “substantive findings” based.

The review by the InterAcademy Council (IAC) was launched after the IPCC’s hugely embarrassing 2007 benchmark climate change report, which contained exaggerated and false claims that Himalayan glaciers could melt by 2035.

The panel was forced to admit its key claim in support of global warming was lifted from a 1999 magazine article. The report was based on an interview with a little-known Indian scientist who has since said his views were “speculation” and not backed by research.

Independent climate scientist Peter Taylor said last night: “The IPCC’s credibility has been deeply dented and something has to be done...."
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Climate change lies are exposed

And, in a related story, Chris and Old Rocks have entered rehab....

Peter Taylor, from his autobiography, ‘Shiva’s Rainbow’:

“In truth, in the scientific realms in which I worked, and gained by now, some standing, I was an impostor. I am not a scientist. Apart from my brief survey of tree-hole communities when I successfully correlated insect larvae diversity with circumference and aspect of the hole to the sun, which, in any case, had been done many times before, I have never ‘done’ science. In my work I have relied certainly upon an understanding of scientific theory and a memory for facts and relationships, and upon an instinct for the hidden and not yet known, but fundamentally I have been a linguist and an actor. My scientific degrees were linguistic exercises in critical review. My performances on television, in public inquiries, on tribunals and commissions, those of an extremely well-briefed lawyer, the ultimate actor. Which is not to say there is no dedication to truth.”

‘Climate Cover-up’

From the article:

David Holland is a member of the Institution of Engineering and Technology. He's an engineer who seems to have no climate science experience.
http://homepages.tesco.net/~kate-and-david/2007/Holland(2007).pdf

Inhofes List of Global Warming Deniers Without Climate Science Background

Wow, lifted from the "report" "It takes things back to basics, and rather than being an exploration of the climate science itself"

What more need be said. Yet another book dealing with form over substance, like most "climate science".

What a hoot!

 

[skookerasbil]

LMAO...........I love coming in here every two weeks or so for a cup of coffee. And every time, its the same story..........Westwall pwns the k00ks, leaving them withering on the vine of hysterical.


vodoo science sucks s0ns..............

 

[Bfgrn]

"THE world’s leading climate change body has been accused of losing credibility after a damning report into its research practices.


A high-level inquiry into the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change found there was “little evidence” for its claims about global warming.

It also said the panel had emphasised the negative impacts of climate change and made “substantive findings” based.

The review by the InterAcademy Council (IAC) was launched after the IPCC’s hugely embarrassing 2007 benchmark climate change report, which contained exaggerated and false claims that Himalayan glaciers could melt by 2035.

The panel was forced to admit its key claim in support of global warming was lifted from a 1999 magazine article. The report was based on an interview with a little-known Indian scientist who has since said his views were “speculation” and not backed by research.

Independent climate scientist Peter Taylor said last night: “The IPCC’s credibility has been deeply dented and something has to be done...."
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Climate change lies are exposed

And, in a related story, Chris and Old Rocks have entered rehab....

Peter Taylor, from his autobiography, ‘Shiva’s Rainbow’:

“In truth, in the scientific realms in which I worked, and gained by now, some standing, I was an impostor. I am not a scientist. Apart from my brief survey of tree-hole communities when I successfully correlated insect larvae diversity with circumference and aspect of the hole to the sun, which, in any case, had been done many times before, I have never ‘done’ science. In my work I have relied certainly upon an understanding of scientific theory and a memory for facts and relationships, and upon an instinct for the hidden and not yet known, but fundamentally I have been a linguist and an actor. My scientific degrees were linguistic exercises in critical review. My performances on television, in public inquiries, on tribunals and commissions, those of an extremely well-briefed lawyer, the ultimate actor. Which is not to say there is no dedication to truth.”

‘Climate Cover-up’

From the article:

David Holland is a member of the Institution of Engineering and Technology. He's an engineer who seems to have no climate science experience.
http://homepages.tesco.net/~kate-and-david/2007/Holland(2007).pdf

Inhofes List of Global Warming Deniers Without Climate Science Background

Wow, lifted from the "report" "It takes things back to basics, and rather than being an exploration of the climate science itself"

What more need be said. Yet another book dealing with form over substance, like most "climate science".

What a hoot!

Hey westfall (faux geologist) ...F.Y.I... USGS stands for U.S. Geological Survey

Glaciers Retreating in Asia
Could Impact Water Supplies for Millions and Cause Flood Conditions

Released: 8/25/2010 10:33:00 AM
Contact Information:
U.S. Department of the Interior, U.S. Geological Survey
Office of Communication
119 National Center
Reston, VA 20192

Many of Asia’s glaciers are retreating as a result of climate change.

This retreat impacts water supplies to millions of people, increases the likelihood of outburst floods that threaten life and property in nearby areas, and contributes to sea-level rise.

The U.S. Geological Survey, in collaboration with 39 international scientists, published a report on the status of glaciers throughout all of Asia, including Russia, China, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Georgia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Kazakhstan.

“Of particular interest are the Himalaya, where glacier behavior impacts the quality of life of tens of millions of people,” said USGS scientist Jane Ferrigno. “Glaciers in the Himalaya are a major source of fresh water and supply meltwater to all of the rivers in northern India.”

...

The time period for retreat also differs among each glacier. In Bhutan, 66 glaciers have decreased 8.1 percent over the last 30 years. Rapid changes in the Himalaya is shown in India by the 12 percent retreat of Chhota Shigri Glacier during the last 13 years, as well as retreat of the Gangotri Glacier since 1780, with 12 percent shrinkage of the main stem in the last 16 years.

 

[westwall]

Peter Taylor, from his autobiography, ‘Shiva’s Rainbow’:

“In truth, in the scientific realms in which I worked, and gained by now, some standing, I was an impostor. I am not a scientist. Apart from my brief survey of tree-hole communities when I successfully correlated insect larvae diversity with circumference and aspect of the hole to the sun, which, in any case, had been done many times before, I have never ‘done’ science. In my work I have relied certainly upon an understanding of scientific theory and a memory for facts and relationships, and upon an instinct for the hidden and not yet known, but fundamentally I have been a linguist and an actor. My scientific degrees were linguistic exercises in critical review. My performances on television, in public inquiries, on tribunals and commissions, those of an extremely well-briefed lawyer, the ultimate actor. Which is not to say there is no dedication to truth.”

‘Climate Cover-up’

From the article:

David Holland is a member of the Institution of Engineering and Technology. He's an engineer who seems to have no climate science experience.
http://homepages.tesco.net/~kate-and-david/2007/Holland(2007).pdf

Inhofes List of Global Warming Deniers Without Climate Science Background

Wow, lifted from the "report" "It takes things back to basics, and rather than being an exploration of the climate science itself"

What more need be said. Yet another book dealing with form over substance, like most "climate science".

What a hoot!

Hey westfall (faux geologist) ...F.Y.I... USGS stands for U.S. Geological Survey

Glaciers Retreating in Asia
Could Impact Water Supplies for Millions and Cause Flood Conditions

Released: 8/25/2010 10:33:00 AM
Contact Information:
U.S. Department of the Interior, U.S. Geological Survey
Office of Communication
119 National Center
Reston, VA 20192

Many of Asia’s glaciers are retreating as a result of climate change.

This retreat impacts water supplies to millions of people, increases the likelihood of outburst floods that threaten life and property in nearby areas, and contributes to sea-level rise.

The U.S. Geological Survey, in collaboration with 39 international scientists, published a report on the status of glaciers throughout all of Asia, including Russia, China, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Georgia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Kazakhstan.

“Of particular interest are the Himalaya, where glacier behavior impacts the quality of life of tens of millions of people,” said USGS scientist Jane Ferrigno. “Glaciers in the Himalaya are a major source of fresh water and supply meltwater to all of the rivers in northern India.”

...

The time period for retreat also differs among each glacier. In Bhutan, 66 glaciers have decreased 8.1 percent over the last 30 years. Rapid changes in the Himalaya is shown in India by the 12 percent retreat of Chhota Shigri Glacier during the last 13 years, as well as retreat of the Gangotri Glacier since 1780, with 12 percent shrinkage of the main stem in the last 16 years.

Yeah, I know, I used to have an office at the Menlo Park building!

 

[Bfgrn]

Wow, lifted from the "report" "It takes things back to basics, and rather than being an exploration of the climate science itself"

What more need be said. Yet another book dealing with form over substance, like most "climate science".

What a hoot!

Hey westfall (faux geologist) ...F.Y.I... USGS stands for U.S. Geological Survey

Glaciers Retreating in Asia
Could Impact Water Supplies for Millions and Cause Flood Conditions

Released: 8/25/2010 10:33:00 AM
Contact Information:
U.S. Department of the Interior, U.S. Geological Survey
Office of Communication
119 National Center
Reston, VA 20192

Many of Asia’s glaciers are retreating as a result of climate change.

This retreat impacts water supplies to millions of people, increases the likelihood of outburst floods that threaten life and property in nearby areas, and contributes to sea-level rise.

The U.S. Geological Survey, in collaboration with 39 international scientists, published a report on the status of glaciers throughout all of Asia, including Russia, China, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Georgia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Kazakhstan.

“Of particular interest are the Himalaya, where glacier behavior impacts the quality of life of tens of millions of people,” said USGS scientist Jane Ferrigno. “Glaciers in the Himalaya are a major source of fresh water and supply meltwater to all of the rivers in northern India.”

...

The time period for retreat also differs among each glacier. In Bhutan, 66 glaciers have decreased 8.1 percent over the last 30 years. Rapid changes in the Himalaya is shown in India by the 12 percent retreat of Chhota Shigri Glacier during the last 13 years, as well as retreat of the Gangotri Glacier since 1780, with 12 percent shrinkage of the main stem in the last 16 years.

Yeah, I know, I used to have an office at the Menlo Park building!

Is THAT what they call the janitor's store room?

Let's discuss 'valley fill' again, so you can cut & run.

 

[Old Rocks]

When it was built, it went right down to the glacier," said Erhard Trojer, owner of the Hotel Lärchenhof in the nearby ski resort village of Heiligenblut.

But now, if you stand at the bottom of the cable car run and look down at the tourists disporting themselves on the glacier, it is as though you are looking at them from an airplane.

"It's going down from four to eight meters a year," said Trojer, who grew up in this valley. "In the early 1960s, they used to have a ski race every spring from the top of the Grossglockner to the bottom of the glacier."

The Grossglockner, which looms above the Pasterze, is, at 3,798 meters, or 12,460 feet, Austria's highest mountain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/07/world/europe/07iht-glacier.html?_r=1

"They can't do it anymore," Trojer said a bit sadly. "It's warmed up, and there isn't enough snow."

Austria's glaciers - there are 925 of them - are shrinking fast, and as they shrink, this part of the world is slowly losing one of its many attractions, those rivers of ice that, figuratively and almost literally, reflect the grandeur of the mountains around them.

 

[Old Rocks]

Global warming, photography, pictures, photos, climate change, impact, science, weather, arctic, antarctica, climate zones, glacier, arctic warming, antarctica warming, documentation, effects, effects of climate change, paleoclimate, mountain glacier

 

[Big Black Dog]

I don't know what I'm tired of the most. All the climate change bullshit or all the bullshit about Beck, Palin, O'Reilly, Obama, Pelosi or Reid. It seems to be running together here of late.