Climate Change: It's the Sun, Stupid

[teapartysamurai]

Guess who wrote this.​

"The Sun is the primary forcing of Earth's climate system. Sunlight warms our world. Sunlight drives atmospheric and oceanic circulation patterns. Sunlight powers the process of photosynthesis that plants need to grow. Sunlight causes convection which carries warmth and water vapor up into the sky where clouds form and bring rain. In short, the Sun drives almost every aspect of our world's climate system and makes possible life as we know it.

"... According to scientists' models of Earth's orbit and orientation toward the Sun indicate that our world should be just beginning to enter a new period of cooling -- perhaps the next ice age...

"Other important forcings of Earth's climate system include such "variables" as clouds, airborne particulate matter, and surface brightness. Each of these varying features of Earth's environment has the capacity to exceed the warming influence of greenhouse gases and cause our world to cool. " [Emphases added.]​

[FONT=times new roman,times]Lord Monckton[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] didn't write that. Neither did physicist [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Richard Lindzen[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times], physicist [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]William Happer[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times], or physicist [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Hal Lewis[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]. Nor was it [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Steve McIntyre[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] who blew the whistle on the "hockey stick." It was none of the usual suspects among the "skeptic" community.[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]It was [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]NASA[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times], home of our space program, the currently unmuzzled [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]James Hansen[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] and one of the major centers for collecting climate data and analyzing it. (HT: [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Ace[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times].)[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]The science "consensus" has not only collapsed, it has raised the white flag and confessed that the skeptics were right all along. I think we can stick a fork in the climate change agenda. A few nuts will continue to wander the streets, mumbling to themselves and each other. But as a significant political agenda, I think it's over. I sure hope it is.​

[/FONT]

Read all here: American Thinker Blog: Climate Change: It's the Sun, Stupid

Now, this is something Rush Limbaugh has been saying for 20 years. As a matter of fact in this book "The Way Things Ought to Be" I remember reading his view (backed up by evidence) it was the sun that controlled our environment.

It's becoming more and more obvious global warming/climate change was political in the first place and had nothing to do with the actual environment.

With the UN admission global warming was about wealth distribution, that becomes more and more obvious.

The minute the Soviet Union fell, it's accolytes went from championing communism to global warming.

This is another example of how liberalism changes according to it's new lie while conservatism follows the same path: THE TRUTH.

Conservatives have been saying for more than 20 years global warming was a hoax. I, most certainly have.

Now, that it's all crumbling before them, the "faithful" can no longer shut up their critics with the laughable "denier" label.

What will be the new lie that replaces global warming. The new lie that in 20-50 years will be the next "NEVERMIND" and then move on to the next big lie?

Shall we all take bets?

​

 

[editec]

One can only hope that you're wrong.

If this apparent global warming is entirely the doing of changes in the solar activity, then truly this modern society we have is hosed.

 

[jillian]

One can only hope that you're wrong.

Of this apparent global warming is entirely the doing of changes in the sun, then truly we are hosed.

I wouldn't worry about her not being wrong... that seems to be a given.

 

[teapartysamurai]

One can only hope that you're wrong.

If this apparent global warming is entirely the doing of changes in the solar activity, then truly this modern society we have is hosed.

That makes abolutely no sense. Would you try supporting that with evidence.

 

[teapartysamurai]

One can only hope that you're wrong.

Of this apparent global warming is entirely the doing of changes in the sun, then truly we are hosed.

I wouldn't worry about her not being wrong... that seems to be a given.

Yeah, I mean only a scientist is backing me up.

I thought that was what was behind global warming.

 

[Old Rocks]

Dingbat, the sun is the source of the energy on the surface of our planet. However, there is no change in the sun that is responsible for the present warming. On the contrary, we have seen a level Total Solar Irradiance remain pretty much level when one takes into account the sunspot cycles. There may even have been a slight insignificant decrease in the TSI since 1978.

Current Projects

Now your quoting of Dr. Hansen out of context is just an example of typical Conservative dishonesty. The energy we recieve from the sun is not all absorbed. A very significant fraction is reflected and reradiated in long wave infrared. GHGS absorb energy from the reflected and reradiated energy. In fact, were it not for GHGs in the atmosphere, the most significant being CO2, the oceans would be frozen down to the equator. If you increase the amount of GHGs in the atmosphere, you increase that amount of heat the atmosphere retains. We have increased the CO2 by 40%, and the CH4 by over 150%.

Now the TSI has not increased, but the amount of GHGs has. Pretty damned obvious to anybody but those with a political disconnect with reality what the problem is.

 

[Old Rocks]

However, since you brought up Dr. Hansen;

http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2008/TwentyYearsLater_20080623.pdf

Charlie Rose - A conversation with James Hansen

Rewriting The Science - 60 Minutes - CBS News

 

[IanC]

I t is just as ridiculous to consider the sun as the only important factor in climate change as it is to blame CO2 for everything. There are hundreds of factors interacting with each other in ways that we do not fully understand. When some of these factors are singled out, they appear to be overwhelmingly important depending on how are stated. Long term ocean current changes can be shown to account for most of the changes but how can you measure the cause-correlation with other factors? Do clouds cause temperature change or does temperature change cause clouds? We just dont know.

After spending 25 years and billions of dollars on CO2 research we are not as far along in understanding the climate as we should be. Its time to spread the money and research around to other factors as well. Perhaps taking the blinders off will lead to fuller understanding. As it stands now anyone who even hints that CO2 is not the whole answer is labelled a skeptic and has their funding slashed.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ian, where the hell have we spent billions on CO2 research. You people keep making that statement and never backing it up at all.

 

[Old Rocks]

I t is just as ridiculous to consider the sun as the only important factor in climate change as it is to blame CO2 for everything. There are hundreds of factors interacting with each other in ways that we do not fully understand. When some of these factors are singled out, they appear to be overwhelmingly important depending on how are stated. Long term ocean current changes can be shown to account for most of the changes but how can you measure the cause-correlation with other factors? Do clouds cause temperature change or does temperature change cause clouds? We just dont know.

After spending 25 years and billions of dollars on CO2 research we are not as far along in understanding the climate as we should be. Its time to spread the money and research around to other factors as well. Perhaps taking the blinders off will lead to fuller understanding. As it stands now anyone who even hints that CO2 is not the whole answer is labelled a skeptic and has their funding slashed.[/QUOTE]

Show evidence for this statement.

 

[IanC]

I t is just as ridiculous to consider the sun as the only important factor in climate change as it is to blame CO2 for everything. There are hundreds of factors interacting with each other in ways that we do not fully understand. When some of these factors are singled out, they appear to be overwhelmingly important depending on how are stated. Long term ocean current changes can be shown to account for most of the changes but how can you measure the cause-correlation with other factors? Do clouds cause temperature change or does temperature change cause clouds? We just dont know.

After spending 25 years and billions of dollars on CO2 research we are not as far along in understanding the climate as we should be. Its time to spread the money and research around to other factors as well. Perhaps taking the blinders off will lead to fuller understanding. As it stands now anyone who even hints that CO2 is not the whole answer is labelled a skeptic and has their funding slashed.[/QUOTE]

Show evidence for this statement.

Too much like work. Why dont you just prove me wrong.

If you dont think their are repercussions to disagreeing with CO2 as the main cause of global warming then you are deluding yourself.

 

[edthecynic]

Guess who wrote this.​

"The Sun is the primary forcing of Earth's climate system. Sunlight warms our world. Sunlight drives atmospheric and oceanic circulation patterns. Sunlight powers the process of photosynthesis that plants need to grow. Sunlight causes convection which carries warmth and water vapor up into the sky where clouds form and bring rain. In short, the Sun drives almost every aspect of our world's climate system and makes possible life as we know it.

"... According to scientists' models of Earth's orbit and orientation toward the Sun indicate that our world should be just beginning to enter a new period of cooling -- perhaps the next ice age.[However, a new force for change has arisen: humans. After the industrial revolution, humans introduced increasing amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and changed the surface of the landscape to an extent great enough to influence climate on local and global scales. By driving up carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere (by about 30 percent), humans have increased its capacity to trap warmth near the surface.]...

"Other important forcings of Earth's climate system include such "variables" as clouds, airborne particulate matter, and surface brightness. Each of these varying features of Earth's environment has the capacity to exceed the warming influence of greenhouse gases and cause our world to cool. " [Emphases added.]​

[FONT=times new roman,times]Lord Monckton[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] didn't write that. Neither did physicist [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Richard Lindzen[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times], physicist [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]William Happer[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times], or physicist [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Hal Lewis[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]. Nor was it [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Steve McIntyre[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] who blew the whistle on the "hockey stick." It was none of the usual suspects among the "skeptic" community.[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]It was [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]NASA[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times], home of our space program, the currently unmuzzled [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]James Hansen[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] and one of the major centers for collecting climate data and analyzing it. (HT: [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Ace[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times].)[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]The science "consensus" has not only collapsed, it has raised the white flag and confessed that the skeptics were right all along. I think we can stick a fork in the climate change agenda. A few nuts will continue to wander the streets, mumbling to themselves and each other. But as a significant political agenda, I think it's over. I sure hope it is.[/FONT]​

Read all here: American Thinker Blog: Climate Change: It's the Sun, Stupid

Now, this is something Rush Limbaugh has been saying for 20 years. As a matter of fact in this book "The Way Things Ought to Be" I remember reading his view (backed up by evidence) it was the sun that controlled our environment.​

​

I just thought I should add in red what you dishonestly left out!

And here's some of Stuttering LimpTard's BRILLIANT stupidity:

April 3, 2007
RUSH: Mark my brilliant words on this. That's how this stuff starts. Now, the question is: is CO2 even a pollutant? Is it an air pollutant? Because if it is, then all the water vapor on this planet is a pollutant. The vast majority of CO2 that's in the atmosphere comes from water vapor.

For anyone stupid enough to believe anything Tinkerbell Limpdick says, not one molecule of CO2 in the entire universe has ever come from H2O!!!!!

 

[Old Rocks]

I t is just as ridiculous to consider the sun as the only important factor in climate change as it is to blame CO2 for everything. There are hundreds of factors interacting with each other in ways that we do not fully understand. When some of these factors are singled out, they appear to be overwhelmingly important depending on how are stated. Long term ocean current changes can be shown to account for most of the changes but how can you measure the cause-correlation with other factors? Do clouds cause temperature change or does temperature change cause clouds? We just dont know.

After spending 25 years and billions of dollars on CO2 research we are not as far along in understanding the climate as we should be. Its time to spread the money and research around to other factors as well. Perhaps taking the blinders off will lead to fuller understanding. As it stands now anyone who even hints that CO2 is not the whole answer is labelled a skeptic and has their funding slashed.[/QUOTE]

Show evidence for this statement.

Too much like work. Why dont you just prove me wrong.

If you dont think their are repercussions to disagreeing with CO2 as the main cause of global warming then you are deluding yourself.

Spoken like a true Conservative.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I t is just as ridiculous to consider the sun as the only important factor in climate change as it is to blame CO2 for everything. There are hundreds of factors interacting with each other in ways that we do not fully understand. When some of these factors are singled out, they appear to be overwhelmingly important depending on how are stated. Long term ocean current changes can be shown to account for most of the changes but how can you measure the cause-correlation with other factors? Do clouds cause temperature change or does temperature change cause clouds? We just dont know.

After spending 25 years and billions of dollars on CO2 research we are not as far along in understanding the climate as we should be. Its time to spread the money and research around to other factors as well. Perhaps taking the blinders off will lead to fuller understanding. As it stands now anyone who even hints that CO2 is not the whole answer is labelled a skeptic and has their funding slashed.

Guys, I hate to break it to you but the SUN is the reason this planet is warm.

Without it, this would be a dead planet.

The sun creates the very ozone that we depend on to sheild us from the sun's more dangerous rays.

Without the sun, we don't have oxygen, we don't have Co2, we don't have cloud, we don't water vapor.

The NASA guy is right.

Even whether we have summer or winter depends on whether we have direct sunlight or slanted rays.

It's all the sun people. Sure we el nino's and la ninas that effect weather. We have the jet stream, and on and on.

But NONE OF THAT HAPPENS WITHOUT THE SUN. Sun and sunspot activity is numero uno. To pretend otherwise you might as well claim . . .

Well AMC did a remake of "The Prisoner" last year (or was it the year before) and they had this great parody of global warming, where they told everyone in the village they had to buy a pig. Keeping a pig would keep more holes from opening up which was destroying their world.

And of course, keeping a pig had nothing to do with anything. It just made everyone "feel" like they were doing their "part."

Well, I'm sorry but we don't control the weather.

We can no more stop an ice age from coming, than we can a warmer earth.

It's in the hands of the Good Lord, and anybody on this planet who thinks he's that powerful has extreme delusions of gradeur.

 

[edthecynic]

However, a new force for change has arisen: humans. After the industrial revolution, humans introduced increasing amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and changed the surface of the landscape to an extent great enough to influence climate on local and global scales. By driving up carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere (by about 30 percent), humans have increased its capacity to trap warmth near the surface.

Guys, I hate to break it to you but the SUN is the reason this planet is warm.

Without it, this would be a dead planet.

The sun creates the very ozone that we depend on to sheild us from the sun's more dangerous rays.

Without the sun, we don't have oxygen, we don't have Co2, we don't have cloud, we don't water vapor.

The NASA guy is right.

Even whether we have summer or winter depends on whether we have direct sunlight or slanted rays.

It's all the sun people. Sure we el nino's and la ninas that effect weather. We have the jet stream, and on and on.

But NONE OF THAT HAPPENS WITHOUT THE SUN. Sun and sunspot activity is numero uno. To pretend otherwise you might as well claim . . .

Well AMC did a remake of "The Prisoner" last year (or was it the year before) and they had this great parody of global warming, where they told everyone in the village they had to buy a pig. Keeping a pig would keep more holes from opening up which was destroying their world.

And of course, keeping a pig had nothing to do with anything. It just made everyone "feel" like they were doing their "part."

Well, I'm sorry but we don't control the weather.

We can no more stop an ice age from coming, than we can a warmer earth.

It's in the hands of the Good Lord, and anybody on this planet who thinks he's that powerful has extreme delusions of gradeur.

First you say the NASA guy is Right, and then you contradict him!
Do you have even the slightest idea of what you are talking about?

And without the Sun this would be a cold planet, not a dead one. Water is the key to life, no matter how much Sun the Earth has, if there was no water there would be no life.

 

[Old Rocks]

Lordy, Teabaggerwimp, you are coming off as one dumb fool.

 

[IanC]

I t is just as ridiculous to consider the sun as the only important factor in climate change as it is to blame CO2 for everything. There are hundreds of factors interacting with each other in ways that we do not fully understand. When some of these factors are singled out, they appear to be overwhelmingly important depending on how are stated. Long term ocean current changes can be shown to account for most of the changes but how can you measure the cause-correlation with other factors? Do clouds cause temperature change or does temperature change cause clouds? We just dont know.

After spending 25 years and billions of dollars on CO2 research we are not as far along in understanding the climate as we should be. Its time to spread the money and research around to other factors as well. Perhaps taking the blinders off will lead to fuller understanding. As it stands now anyone who even hints that CO2 is not the whole answer is labelled a skeptic and has their funding slashed.

Guys, I hate to break it to you but the SUN is the reason this planet is warm.

Without it, this would be a dead planet.

The sun creates the very ozone that we depend on to sheild us from the sun's more dangerous rays.

Without the sun, we don't have oxygen, we don't have Co2, we don't have cloud, we don't water vapor.

The NASA guy is right.

Even whether we have summer or winter depends on whether we have direct sunlight or slanted rays.

It's all the sun people. Sure we el nino's and la ninas that effect weather. We have the jet stream, and on and on.

But NONE OF THAT HAPPENS WITHOUT THE SUN. Sun and sunspot activity is numero uno. To pretend otherwise you might as well claim . . .

Well AMC did a remake of "The Prisoner" last year (or was it the year before) and they had this great parody of global warming, where they told everyone in the village they had to buy a pig. Keeping a pig would keep more holes from opening up which was destroying their world.

And of course, keeping a pig had nothing to do with anything. It just made everyone "feel" like they were doing their "part."

Well, I'm sorry but we don't control the weather.

We can no more stop an ice age from coming, than we can a warmer earth.

It's in the hands of the Good Lord, and anybody on this planet who thinks he's that powerful has extreme delusions of gradeur.

your OP specifically mentions climate change. while the sun is necessary for us to be here that does not mean that changes in the sun's output are the most important factor in climate change. billions of years ago the sun's output was 20 percent lower than today but there were still liquid oceans and a temperature close to the present. obviously there are other factors in play to stablize the climate.

 

[editec]

One can only hope that you're wrong.

If this apparent global warming is entirely the doing of changes in the solar activity, then truly this modern society we have is hosed.

That makes abolutely no sense. Would you try supporting that with evidence.

Okay I'll spell it out for you.

IF global warming is happening and IF it drives the earth's average temperature up 7 degrees this century?

There is no way in hell that mankind's societies are going to be able to cope with the enormous changes that will result of that.

Not that all of mankind will die, but most of it likely will.

Our economies, are way of life, everything that we have developed to sustain 6 billion people on the planet is based on the presumption that the climate is something we can expect NOT to drastically change in such a short time.

And why do I suggest that we'd better pray to GOD that most (or all) of this global warming is anthropogenic?

Because if it is anthropogenic, then we MIGHT be able to mitigate it.

If on the other hand this is just a natural occcurance?

Then there is nothing we can do to mitigate it, and all we can do is try to deal with the changes that such a drastic climate change would produce.

For example...most of mankind lives at or near sea level.

A 7 degree temperature increase would flood most of mankinds current areas of population.

For example, right now the earth's breadbaskets exist where they exist.

A 7 degree temperature change would certainly change those locations, but we have no reasonwhatever to expect that where the temperate zones will also be good place for farming.

I mean a temperature change that dramatic will be essantially impossible for most people to survive.

The dieoff of mankind will reach epic proportions if that prediction is true.

 

[teapartysamurai]

One can only hope that you're wrong.

If this apparent global warming is entirely the doing of changes in the solar activity, then truly this modern society we have is hosed.

That makes abolutely no sense. Would you try supporting that with evidence.

Okay I'll spell it out for you.

IF global warming is happening and IF it drives the earth's average temperature up 7 degrees this century?

There is no way in hell that mankind's societies are going to be able to cope with the enormous changes that will result of that.

Not that all of mankind will die, but most of it likely will.

Our economies, are way of life, everything that we have developed to sustain 6 billion people on the planet is based on the presumption that the climate is something we can expect NOT to drastically change in such a short time.

And why do I suggest that we'd better pray to GOD that most (or all) of this global warming is anthropogenic?

Because if it is anthropogenic, then we MIGHT be able to mitigate it.

If on the other hand this is just a natural occcurance?

Then there is nothing we can do to mitigate it, and all we can do is try to deal with the changes that such a drastic climate change would produce.

For example...most of mankind lives at or near sea level.

A 7 degree temperature increase would flood most of mankinds current areas of population.

For example, right now the earth's breadbaskets exist where they exist.

A 7 degree temperature change would certainly change those locations, but we have no reasonwhatever to expect that where the temperate zones will also be good place for farming.

I mean a temperature change that dramatic will be essantially impossible for most people to survive.

The dieoff of mankind will reach epic proportions if that prediction is true.

The big two letter word there is IF.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I t is just as ridiculous to consider the sun as the only important factor in climate change as it is to blame CO2 for everything. There are hundreds of factors interacting with each other in ways that we do not fully understand. When some of these factors are singled out, they appear to be overwhelmingly important depending on how are stated. Long term ocean current changes can be shown to account for most of the changes but how can you measure the cause-correlation with other factors? Do clouds cause temperature change or does temperature change cause clouds? We just dont know.

After spending 25 years and billions of dollars on CO2 research we are not as far along in understanding the climate as we should be. Its time to spread the money and research around to other factors as well. Perhaps taking the blinders off will lead to fuller understanding. As it stands now anyone who even hints that CO2 is not the whole answer is labelled a skeptic and has their funding slashed.

Guys, I hate to break it to you but the SUN is the reason this planet is warm.

Without it, this would be a dead planet.

The sun creates the very ozone that we depend on to sheild us from the sun's more dangerous rays.

Without the sun, we don't have oxygen, we don't have Co2, we don't have cloud, we don't water vapor.

The NASA guy is right.

Even whether we have summer or winter depends on whether we have direct sunlight or slanted rays.

It's all the sun people. Sure we el nino's and la ninas that effect weather. We have the jet stream, and on and on.

But NONE OF THAT HAPPENS WITHOUT THE SUN. Sun and sunspot activity is numero uno. To pretend otherwise you might as well claim . . .

Well AMC did a remake of "The Prisoner" last year (or was it the year before) and they had this great parody of global warming, where they told everyone in the village they had to buy a pig. Keeping a pig would keep more holes from opening up which was destroying their world.

And of course, keeping a pig had nothing to do with anything. It just made everyone "feel" like they were doing their "part."

Well, I'm sorry but we don't control the weather.

We can no more stop an ice age from coming, than we can a warmer earth.

It's in the hands of the Good Lord, and anybody on this planet who thinks he's that powerful has extreme delusions of gradeur.

your OP specifically mentions climate change. while the sun is necessary for us to be here that does not mean that changes in the sun's output are the most important factor in climate change. billions of years ago the sun's output was 20 percent lower than today but there were still liquid oceans and a temperature close to the present. obviously there are other factors in play to stablize the climate.

If you have evidence for that, please present it.