Clerics Defy Ayatollah

[Annie]

This seems really big:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/world/middleeast/05iran.html?_r=1&hp

July 5, 2009
Leading Clerics Defy Ayatollah on Disputed Iran Election

By MICHAEL SLACKMAN and NAZILA FATHI
CAIRO — The most important group of religious leaders in Iran called the disputed presidential election and the new government illegitimate on Saturday, an act of defiance against the country’s supreme leader and the most public sign of a major split in the country’s clerical establishment.

A statement by the group, the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qum, represents a significant, if so far symbolic, setback for the government and especially the authority of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, whose word is supposed to be final. The government has tried to paint the opposition and its top presidential candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, as criminals and traitors, a strategy that now becomes more difficult — if not impossible.

“This crack in the clerical establishment, and the fact they are siding with the people and Moussavi, in my view is the most historic crack in the 30 years of the Islamic republic,” said Abbas Milani, director of the Iranian Studies Program at Stanford University. “Remember, they are going against an election verified and sanctified by Khamenei.”

The announcement came on a day when Mr. Moussavi released documents detailing a campaign of fraud by the current president’s supporters, and as a close associate of the supreme leader called Mr. Moussavi and former President Mohammad Khatami “foreign agents,” saying they should be treated as criminals....

 

[Sunni Man]

They will all be arrested and put in prison as traitors and foreign agents..

 

[tigerbob]

They will all be arrested and put in prison as traitors and foreign agents..

Is that your view, your aspiration, or both?

 

[tigerbob]

This seems really big:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/world/middleeast/05iran.html?_r=1&hp

July 5, 2009
Leading Clerics Defy Ayatollah on Disputed Iran Election

By MICHAEL SLACKMAN and NAZILA FATHI
CAIRO — The most important group of religious leaders in Iran called the disputed presidential election and the new government illegitimate on Saturday, an act of defiance against the country’s supreme leader and the most public sign of a major split in the country’s clerical establishment.

A statement by the group, the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qum, represents a significant, if so far symbolic, setback for the government and especially the authority of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, whose word is supposed to be final. The government has tried to paint the opposition and its top presidential candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, as criminals and traitors, a strategy that now becomes more difficult — if not impossible.

“This crack in the clerical establishment, and the fact they are siding with the people and Moussavi, in my view is the most historic crack in the 30 years of the Islamic republic,” said Abbas Milani, director of the Iranian Studies Program at Stanford University. “Remember, they are going against an election verified and sanctified by Khamenei.”

The announcement came on a day when Mr. Moussavi released documents detailing a campaign of fraud by the current president’s supporters, and as a close associate of the supreme leader called Mr. Moussavi and former President Mohammad Khatami “foreign agents,” saying they should be treated as criminals....

I'm glad you posted this Annie, and I'm stunned that it's had so little reaction.

Another view, this time from the Times of London.

Iran clerics declare election invalid and condemn crackdown - Times Online

 

[JimH52]

Thanks Annie. This could be very significant. Iran is a very strange country. Sort of an East Berln without the wall.

 

[xotoxi]

The Association of Researchers and Teachers of Quim?

Interesting...

 

[JimH52]

Another view, this time from the Times of London.

Iran clerics declare election invalid and condemn crackdown - Times Online

This thing is not over. The government cannot throw all the clerics into prison. The coming weeks will be interesting. Thanks for posting the Times of London link.

 

[RodISHI]

I do hope for the sake of the peoples freedom they can make a difference. I keep thinking and wondering how Perham is doing over there.

Hi everyone,

political forum's atmosphere is getting tough, although I'm not a problem maker, but many of my friends has been banned form there or not posting there so much. so I decided to join here. I'm considered as a centerist, I'm a little leaning to right, I'm muslim, and I'm from Iran.

cheers!

two things:

1- where the hell is the TOS? EDIT: I found it, and I like it!
2- we've got a forum for Iran here, are you kidding me?!

that was the first thing I did when I joined PF. if you have any questions about Iran, ask, I'll answer. you may want the viewpoint of a 21 year old Iranian living in Tehran.

do you hate us for our freedumbs..

I don't hate you for anything, most of Iranian people like Americans.

 

[L.K.Eder]

This seems really big:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/world/middleeast/05iran.html?_r=1&hp

July 5, 2009
Leading Clerics Defy Ayatollah on Disputed Iran Election

By MICHAEL SLACKMAN and NAZILA FATHI
CAIRO — The most important group of religious leaders in Iran called the disputed presidential election and the new government illegitimate on Saturday, an act of defiance against the country’s supreme leader and the most public sign of a major split in the country’s clerical establishment.

A statement by the group, the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qum, represents a significant, if so far symbolic, setback for the government and especially the authority of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, whose word is supposed to be final. The government has tried to paint the opposition and its top presidential candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, as criminals and traitors, a strategy that now becomes more difficult — if not impossible.

“This crack in the clerical establishment, and the fact they are siding with the people and Moussavi, in my view is the most historic crack in the 30 years of the Islamic republic,” said Abbas Milani, director of the Iranian Studies Program at Stanford University. “Remember, they are going against an election verified and sanctified by Khamenei.”

The announcement came on a day when Mr. Moussavi released documents detailing a campaign of fraud by the current president’s supporters, and as a close associate of the supreme leader called Mr. Moussavi and former President Mohammad Khatami “foreign agents,” saying they should be treated as criminals....

I'm glad you posted this Annie, and I'm stunned that it's had so little reaction.

Another view, this time from the Times of London.

Iran clerics declare election invalid and condemn crackdown - Times Online

Looks like the NYT and the Times of London misidentified the group and exaggerated the impact. There is a group of clerics in Qom with several Grand Ayatollahs. If the statement was issued by those guys, there would have been an impact. The NYT has changed its statement from "most important group" to "an important group".

 

[tigerbob]

The Association of Researchers and Teachers of Quim?

Interesting...

That is a very unfortunate name, isn't it?

 

[sealybobo]

The Association of Researchers and Teachers of Quim?

Interesting...

That is a very unfortunate name, isn't it?

I was going to make fun of this group too.

The Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qum.

Well! If they say it, then I'm sure the Iotola will change his mind.

Are they an important group? Are they big? What makes them "clerics"? I'll look into this.

Good that Iranians are still putting up a fight. Not like us after our own stolen 2000 and 2004 elections. We laid down and took it. Pussies.

 

[tigerbob]

This seems really big:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/world/middleeast/05iran.html?_r=1&hp

I'm glad you posted this Annie, and I'm stunned that it's had so little reaction.

Another view, this time from the Times of London.

Iran clerics declare election invalid and condemn crackdown - Times Online

Looks like the NYT and the Times of London misidentified the group and exaggerated the impact. There is a group of clerics in Qom with several Grand Ayatollahs. If the statement was issued by those guys, there would have been an impact. The NYT has changed its statement from "most important group" to "an important group".

BBC is misidentifying and exaggerating too.

The pro-reform clerics group said in a statement that the top legislative body, the Guardian Council, no longer had the right "to judge in this case."
In a statement to the press, the Assembly of Qom Seminary Scholars and Researchers said some members of the Guardian Council had "lost their impartial image in the eyes of the public."
"How can one accept the legitimacy of the election just because the Guardian Council says so? Can one say that the government born out of the infringements is a legitimate one," it said.
The Guardian Council is an unelected 12-member council made up of six religious leaders, appointed by the supreme leader, and six jurists.
The statement is further proof of a split at the top of Iran's establishment, correspondents say.
They say that in particular, it was an act of defiance against the country's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran clerics defy election ruling

 

[GHook93]

They will all be arrested and put in prison as traitors and foreign agents..

Oh that would be sweet! More fuel for the fire! You would see even conservative in Iran revolt! The military would question this move!

I hope you prophesize correctly Sunni!

 

[L.K.Eder]

I'm glad you posted this Annie, and I'm stunned that it's had so little reaction.

Another view, this time from the Times of London.

Iran clerics declare election invalid and condemn crackdown - Times Online

Looks like the NYT and the Times of London misidentified the group and exaggerated the impact. There is a group of clerics in Qom with several Grand Ayatollahs. If the statement was issued by those guys, there would have been an impact. The NYT has changed its statement from "most important group" to "an important group".

BBC is misidentifying and exaggerating too.

The pro-reform clerics group said in a statement that the top legislative body, the Guardian Council, no longer had the right "to judge in this case."
In a statement to the press, the Assembly of Qom Seminary Scholars and Researchers said some members of the Guardian Council had "lost their impartial image in the eyes of the public."
"How can one accept the legitimacy of the election just because the Guardian Council says so? Can one say that the government born out of the infringements is a legitimate one," it said.
The Guardian Council is an unelected 12-member council made up of six religious leaders, appointed by the supreme leader, and six jurists.
The statement is further proof of a split at the top of Iran's establishment, correspondents say.
They say that in particular, it was an act of defiance against the country's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran clerics defy election ruling

Well, it is confusing. But those are the big guns:

Jame’eh-e ye Modarresin-e Howzeh-ye Eliyeh-ye Qom

The little group headed by Ayatollah Musavi-Tabrizi has a very similar name. It does not take long to find out about it. I read something about Rafsanjani being behind this group, which would make it a political attack dog, IMO.

 

[Sunni Man]

They will all be arrested and put in prison as traitors and foreign agents..

Is that your view, your aspiration, or both?

That is my view.