Clear Evidence of OCTA Ignorance in Full Flight

Discussion in 'Conspiracy Theories' started by CurveLight, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. CurveLight
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    CurveLight BANNED

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    •Acronyms•
    OCT: Official Conspiracy Theory (The Bush Admin's version)

    OCTA(s): Official Conspiracy Theory Apologist(s)

    CR: 9E Commission Report

    ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤

    I've been claiming OCTAs
    are generally ignorant of basic facts regarding 9E. Recently an opportunity to support this claim was offered so here is the evidence. The synopsis is very simple. Some OCTAs claimed flight 77 was tracked on radar for all of its time in the air except for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56---9:05am.

    Candycorn and Fizz made the claims starting at post 36 in the Jesse Ventura thread:

    http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...se-venturas-conspiracy-theory-on-trutv-3.html

    I stated flight 77 was not detected for about 35 minutes in that thread but both of them said I was wrong. Somehow this discussion transferred to the "I Keep Asking" thread started by Gunny
    , at post 81:

    http://www.usmessageboard.com/conspiracy-theories/97549-i-keep-asking-6.html

    At least five different OCTAs
    explicitly or implicitly supported the claim made by Candycorn and Fizz that 77 was detected on radar for the entire flight except for 8 minutes, 13 seconds. I repeatedly asked for evidence of this claim about ten times and they produced none.

    I even quoted directly from the CR this paragraph:

    "The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to inves*tigate this issue further. Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center.142 The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar cov*erage where American 77 was flying."

    The very first sentence states there was no Primary radar return and some wrongly assumed the xponder was responsible but their ignorance prevailed because they did not know the xponder feeds info to the Secondary radar. That is the one used to track aircraft by air traffic controllers.

    They continued ignoring the CR states "radar reconstruction" and kept assuming that was synonymous with "radar records." I repeatedly pointed out they did not have those records which is why OCTAs
    never produced them. The "radar reconstruction" was merely the CR's way of trying to explain the flight path but with no real evidence.

    When I stated flight 77 was not tracked for about 35 minutes I based that on what the CR itself said. I was confident OCTAs
    were ignorant of that fact so I kept up the heated dialogue to remove any excuses why these OCTAs did not know a basic fucking fact stated by the CR:

    (Reading the CR in HTML the statement below is on page 25)

    "American 77 traveled undetected for 36 minutes on a course heading due east for Washington, D.C."

    Reading down just a few lines in the CR we see this:

    "The Command Center kept looking for American 77. At 9:21, it advised the Dulles terminal control facility, and Dulles urged its controllers to look for pri*mary targets. At 9:32, they found one."

    The 9/11 Commission Report


    I rest my case.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2009
  2. Fizz
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    LIE #1
    that is not what you said at all. you said "Not a fact flight 77 was on radar after it dropped from radar at about 8:55 am. It is strictly assumed flight 77 is the aircraft that reappeared on radar. Even when they assumed it was 77, it was still about a 35 minute window of being missing. The problem there is turning the xponder off doesn't make a commercial jet a stealth aircraft."

    you said it dropped from radar reappeared 35 minutes later. that is of course a LIE.

    "FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56."

    "But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center." - 9/11 commission report

    nobody makes the stealth plane claim. you are being an ass.

    LIE #2
    the very first sentence does NOT say there was no primary radar return. it says they failed to find a primary return. this is because the primary radar information for flight 77 was not displayed properly due to the software that processed radar information. it does NOT mean the primary radar failed to see flight 77. your reading comprehension difficulties once again rear their ugly head. read the paragraph you were quoting from again.

    what exactly did they use to reconstruct the radar if not for the records of the radar? hell, even flytcomm.com has the radar records available. its a pay site but there are many instances of people getting the information from there.

    LIE #3
    you say it was not tracked for 35 minutes. let me repeat this quote from the commission report
    "FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56"

    then you say it was not "tracked" (the exact work you are using) for 35 minutes and use a quote from the commission report "traveled undetected for 36 minutes"

    now clearly, tracked and undetected are two completely different things. when the commission is saying "tracked" it is referring to radar. you confuse that with "traveled undetected" when the controllers did not know where the flight was.

    you are now in the same category as christophera.
     
  3. CurveLight
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    CurveLight BANNED

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    Fizz, I'm embarrassed for you. You actually rewrote the sentence for about the fifth time. Here is your edited version:

    "FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56."

    You straight up lied by cutting off the first part of the sentence. Here is the full sentence:

    "Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56."

    Why do you straight up rewrite the sentence as if nobody will notice? That's flat out insane.

    YOU STILL HAVE NOT PRODUCED ANY EVIDENCE OF 77's "radar records" YOU CLAIM EXISTS. What's worse is you don't even know how the CR did the radar reconstruction. Then you ask me how the CR did the reconstruction???? What the fuck? That's evidence you don't know how it was done. Just another example of you making a claim you can't support.

    You continue the insanity by trying to claim the CR's admission that 77 traveled undetected for 36 minutes doesn't actually mean it wasn't tracked/detected/observed/seen/witnessed. Before something can be tracked it must be detected and since the CR says 77 traveled undetected that means no tracking could have been done. If something gets tracked that means there was a detection point, known as the beginning of the tracking. Since 77 traveled undetected for 36 minutes it could not have been tracked during that period. Nothing can be simultaneously tracked and undetected. For 77 the tracking began at 9:32 when it was detected.

    Since we are traveling down alice's rabbit hole, the admission from the CR it wasn't detected is not sufficient evidence for you. So let's look at another piece of evidence. In order for a Primary tracking to happen the Primary radar must be turned on. As I've already explained, the Primary radar is not the radar used by air traffic controllers for commercial jets. They all go by the Secondary radar which is fed by the xponder. Indy never turned on their Primary radar:

    "Managers did not instruct other controllers at Indianapolis Center to turn on their primary radar coverage to join in the search for American 77."

    The same protocol was at every radar tower so nobody monitoring commercial jets turned on their primary radar until they were told to at 9:21am. Radars turned off usually causes a slight hindrance in being able to track. All of the commercial jets were tracked by Secondary radar because of the high altitude coverage. Everything below roughly 23,000 feet is tracked by the Primary and not the Secondary. Secondary radar operators have to turn on the Primary radar and for 77 this did not happen until 9:21am. Flight 77's assigned altitude was 35,000 feet which means it was generally out of range for Primary radars and Secondary radar operators didn't have their Primary on. Also, not every area is covered by the Primary and it does not state the speed or altitude. It can't even identify the aircraft on its own. That means when the Primary at Dulles picked up an aircraft they could not identify what it was. It was literally a UFO.

    Bottom line is on that day nobody knew where flight 77 was for 36 minutes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2009
  4. CurveLight
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    Geez. Your bullshit is getting worse. I said 77 dropped from radar and it was 35 minutes later when it reappeared. The CR states radar contact was lost at 8:56 (that's 77 disappearing from the radar) and radar contact was reestablished at 9:32 (that's 77 reappearing). So how did I lie?

    Then you claim the CR does not say there was no Primary radar. If a Primary radar "failed" to return that means it was not on radar. Where the fuck do you come up with the logic to say that backwards shit? You say there was a Primary radar return and you try to support this by pointing to the CR saying 77 had a FAILED Primary return. How the fuck can a failed return be evidence of a produced a return???? Know what else proves that claim wrong? If there was a Primary return then they wouldn't have been looking all over hell for 77.

    There is no limit to how much stupidity you will seek to defend your claims.
     
  5. Fizz
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    you are a moron that doesnt understand what he reads. obviously i am not going to convince you that you are not a moron because you are too stupid to realize it.

    i stand by everything i said in this thread. its all clear in the 9/11 commission report. its not my fault you are too stupid to understand it.
     
  6. CurveLight
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    I agree the CR is very very clear when it states:

    "American 77 traveled undetected for 36 minutes on a course heading due east for Washington, D.C."

    What do you think the purpose was when I pointed that out? It was to show there was a 36 minute window when NOBODY knew where 77 was flying. I've clearly supported that with the CR. You fail to realize even when Dulles picked up a blip on Primary radar they were not able to confirm it was 77. Your precious "radar reconstructions" don't even confirm it was 77. They couldn't because Primary radar does not identify aircraft, speed, or altitude.

    Your statement of stubbornness is exactly what is expected out of arrogant people like you. No matter how much evidence is provided showing your claims are bullshit you "stand by" them because you have absolutely nothing to lose. You know your OCTA pals won't publicly proclaim you are wrong and you only listen to those who agree with your conclusions. You are devoid of accountability and possess not a shred of dignity, integrity, nor honesty.
     
  7. Fizz
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    on 9/11... yes you are right.

    now looking back and going over the radar records we can see where it was the entire time.

    here is your proof that there are radar records.

    Powered by Google Docs

    Primary Target - CBS News

    and my favorite one....
    NTSB RECORDED RADAR DATA STUDY FOR ALL FOUR AIRCRAFT (caution, 8m download) http://www.ntsb.gov/info/Rec_Radar_ Data_ Study_all _aircraft.pdf

    which shows the radar track for flight 77 (it was never missing!!)
     
  8. candycorn
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    candycorn Alis volat propriis

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    Okay. So what.
     
  9. Fizz
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    HAHAHAhahahahaha!!! your original claim was wrong. now you are changing your claim and saying you were right!!! :lol:

    here is your original claim
    ""Not a fact flight 77 was on radar after it dropped from radar at about 8:55 am. It is strictly assumed flight 77 is the aircraft that reappeared on radar. Even when they assumed it was 77, it was still about a 35 minute window of being missing. The problem there is turning the xponder off doesn't make a commercial jet a stealth aircraft.""

    it is not "strictly assumed"... they have it on radar the entire time. it was not missing on radar for 35 minutes. :cuckoo:
     
  10. CurveLight
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    I didn't change my claim at all. Look at the context of my statement. I was clearly talking about the events of that day and when I said it dropped from radar it went missing for about 35 minutes and was assumed to be 77 when Dulles picked up a Primary target at 9:32.

    The CR states that as well. It doesn't matter how many wishful radar reconstructions you want to point to. The indisputable fact is on 9/11 nobody knew where it was for 36 minutes.
     

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