classic sign of a despot

[Gaebolg]

I said it wouldn't surprise me if it was that way, nowhere did I say that its factual. Keep putting words in my mouth to make your point since you can't refute what I've legitimately written.

Your opinion is based in nothing but assumption. Prove otherwise.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Gaebolg
If you were thinking at all, you might have come to the conclusion that those troops are either lying about an order because they broke the law and are trying to cover their ass, broke the law by following an unlawful order (I assume you know what an unlawful order is, since if they were given one it was unlawful) or are complete idiots.

lets look at item number two that you put in here,

broke the law by following an unlawful order

Where did the order come from? how far up does it go? who didn't get what memo or who read it and discarded it like a 'complete idiot'?

Bush opened the door for this shit with his first memo by his usual tactic of using the words in a law to skirt around it, now it LOOKS, I stress the word LOOKS, like he's trying to cover his administrations ass with the other memo's. Thats my opinion concerning the administration as well as the higher levels of command with regards to this prison topic.

See? I was thinking all along, you were just too obtuse to recognize it.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Gaebolg
Your opinion is based in nothing but assumption. Prove otherwise.

you don't comprehend well, I said its based on my experience and I used a popular movie to describe it so people would know what I'm talking about. You chose to try to ridicule and discredit my experience by calling it, and me, full of crap.

Thats when I said 'fuck you'.

 

[OCA]

LMAO! We are so screwed up as a nation that we would rather split hairs over torture and memos about torture while Americans are losing their heads over there. Its over with, its done lets move on. DK is right in 1 respect, no friggin way Bush is going down while the Republicans control government, no way. This is a political orange so to speak that the Demos hold and they are going to squeeze every last drop out of it, hell they will even use the peel if they have to.

This is all just payback for Clinton and the impeachment but the Demos are pissed because they don't have numbers to bring Bush up on charge 1 so they are going to drag this through the mud.

American politics, ain't it beautiful?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by OCA
LMAO! We are so screwed up as a nation that we would rather split hairs over torture and memos about torture while Americans are losing their heads over there. Its over with, its done lets move on. DK is right in 1 respect, no friggin way Bush is going down while the Republicans control government, no way. This is a political orange so to speak that the Demos hold and they are going to squeeze every last drop out of it, hell they will even use the peel if they have to.

This is all just payback for Clinton and the impeachment but the Demos are pissed because they don't have numbers to bring Bush up on charge 1 so they are going to drag this through the mud.

American politics, ain't it beautiful?

all politics aside, you don't feel that there should be anything done if its determined that torture was advocated via the memos, even if it wasn't directly ordered?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
all politics aside, you don't feel that there should be anything done if its determined that torture was advocated via the memos, even if it wasn't directly ordered?

First of all where are these memos coming from? Are they even authentic? Because I find it highly suspicious that anybody would be stupid enough to leave a paper trail.

No I don't think there should be anything done, you know my feelings on this. I think it was a viable and useful tool in this war. All this other crap about how the prisoners were innocent and this and that is unsubstantiated rumour.

Again I will reiterate, it wasn't like we burned people alive and swung them from bridges, all these prisoners will eventually see their loved ones again unlike the contractors or Berg or Johnson.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by OCA
First of all where are these memos coming from? Are they even authentic? Because I find it highly suspicious that anybody would be stupid enough to leave a paper trail.

it appears that the pentagon and justice department are just stupid enough to leave a paper trail.

No I don't think there should be anything done, you know my feelings on this. I think it was a viable and useful tool in this war. All this other crap about how the prisoners were innocent and this and that is unsubstantiated rumour.

I know you do. I guess if we can't beat, we should join em.

Again I will reiterate, it wasn't like we burned people alive and swung them from bridges, all these prisoners will eventually see their loved ones again unlike the contractors or Berg or Johnson.

i'm sure that ANY human can see the justification after the torture is over with.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by OCA
First of all where are these memos coming from? Are they even authentic? Because I find it highly suspicious that anybody would be stupid enough to leave a paper trail.

No I don't think there should be anything done, you know my feelings on this. I think it was a viable and useful tool in this war. All this other crap about how the prisoners were innocent and this and that is unsubstantiated rumour.

Again I will reiterate, it wasn't like we burned people alive and swung them from bridges, all these prisoners will eventually see their loved ones again unlike the contractors or Berg or Johnson.

They are coming from the White House. They do leave a paper trail, sometimes, like now, they may be vindicated by it.

 

[OCA]

So you would rather stick to some set of chivilrous(sp?) rules that render the war or battle unwinnable? I thought the saying was all's fair in love and war?

 

[NewGuy]

Food for thought:

Last I checked, the patriot act allowed for torture.

Again, I could be wrong, but that was what I remember.

If that is so, what keeps that from being applied in times of war against "enemy combatants"?

See what we are doing here?

The line in the sand no longer exists.

There IS NO DIFFERENCE between war and terrorism and domestic and foreign.

We have now blurred EVERYTHING legally, politically, and economically in all areas.

We can now justify ANYTHING because of ambiguity.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by OCA
So you would rather stick to some set of chivilrous(sp?) rules that render the war or battle unwinnable? I thought the saying was all's fair in love and war?

I'd rather us not make an ass out of ourselves by saying we're the best force for good in the world while we advocate torture doing it. Kinda makes a really bad impression, wouldn't ya think?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Food for thought:

Last I checked, the patriot act allowed for torture.

Again, I could be wrong, but that was what I remember.

If that is so, what keeps that from being applied in times of war against "enemy combatants"?

See what we are doing here?

The line in the sand no longer exists.

There IS NO DIFFERENCE between war and terrorism and domestic and foreign.

We have now blurred EVERYTHING legally, politically, and economically in all areas.

We can now justify ANYTHING because of ambiguity.

and people keep telling us we're looney's for saying our government is not imperial or tyrannical. Seems like they've got more power to do to us whatever they want, whenever they want legally than they've ever had.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I'd rather us not make an ass out of ourselves by saying we're the best force for good in the world while we advocate torture doing it. Kinda makes a really bad impression, wouldn't ya think?

1 question: do you think we can win this battle and war using these supposedly higher moral tactics or do we need to get in the mud with them and go toe to toe? You already know i'm for the latter.

I've also never said we are the best force for good in the world, I don't like that term usage. I like we are the big boy on the block and will protect our friends and interests when threatened by whatever means neccessary. I mean there are plenty of instances of America getting involved in foriegn affairs for reasons that were far from good for anybody but America. But hey thats global politics, it ain't always pretty.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by OCA
1 question: do you think we can win this battle and war using these supposedly higher moral tactics or do we need to get in the mud with them and go toe to toe? You already know i'm for the latter.

we've talked about tactics before. I'm for killing them all. I don't believe that torture does any good other than to satisfy a barbaric bloodthirsty desire to do harm to a person for sadistic reasons.

I've also never said we are the best force for good in the world, I don't like that term usage.

never said you have used it. Our government, and many others, are guilty of that two faced rhetoric.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
barbaric bloodthirsty desire to do harm to a person for sadistic reasons.

You might have just described my feelings towards persons I strongly dislike to a T.



:

 

[KLSuddeth]

You might have just described my feelings towards persons I strongly dislike to a T.

Namely...........................................................................me



Seriously - I see both sides. I WANT to torture and maim those who hurt my children. However, Im not honoring the Christian in me by doing so, am I? I dont want to hear that my response belongs in another forum - Im simply making a point

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Of course he lies and skirts the issue. He's still a politician, afterall. He's the only one who will take the war on terror seriously, I might add.

What if he had come clean? Would he be getting honesty points? I doubt it. The policy has to be: deny, deny, deny. Just ask your boy, slick willie!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
and people keep telling us we're looney's for saying our government is not imperial or tyrannical. Seems like they've got more power to do to us whatever they want, whenever they want legally than they've ever had.

Hey mr. liberal, what about all the excessive taxation, and the excessive social spending, minimum wage laws, and protectionist market interferences, so mothers on welfare can be guaranteed a union computer job and have the least difficulties, and families can be split up on a whim from some lib social worker. Liberals LIKE big government. Now you want to take away police officers rights to ID people? Are you still a liberal, or are now you an anarchist, or The BUll Moose Party?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by Kathianne
That's AP, unreal. The press hates him with such vehemence, that they don't seem to realize that they are losing the trust of the American people.

Bush doesn't have the trust of the American people, and I suggest it's based on his actions not just the media's portrayal.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Bush doesn't have the trust of the American people, and I suggest it's based on his actions not just the media's portrayal.

Platitude, beneath you Flasher.