Clashes After Jews Permitted to Pray At Temple Mount

[RoccoR]

RE: Clashes After Jews Permitted to Pray At Temple Mount
⁜→ Shusha, Coyote, et al,

I'll probably be burned at the stake for this comment.

2. There seems to be an underlying assumption on your part that all of Palestine is Jewish land,

It's not an assumption. It's a legal and moral position taken after decades of research.

All of the Western section of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Jewish people. (Just as all of the Eastern portions of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Arab Palestinian people, and Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon were designated for the self-determination of their respective Arab people.) →

(COMMENT)

Neither side (we'll call them Jewish Proponents 'v' Arab Palestinian Proponents") were made such a promise.

◈ Clearly, the Allied Powers at the Paris Peace Conference (1919) made no set promises to either side. For all intent and purposes, the British had tacit approval (that is no allied power would really interfere with the British), from the Council of the League of Nations, to administer the Mandates over Transjordan, Palestine and Iraq, without interference (from the Mediertainian to Persia).

◈ While not totally outside Bri.tish influence, the British recognized the Emirate of Transjordan (the Emerate was awarded to the Hashemites Royal family of the Hejaz) in May 1923; with full independence for Transjordan granted in 1946; → the sovereign of the British Empire recognizing the Emir as a Sovereign of Transjordan (ie King) by treaty.​

The importance of these two points cannot be overstated. East of the Jordan River would be considered a political territory under the rule of a dynastic Arabic. That left the Mandate Territory west of the Jordan River under the unspecified disposition of the British Mandate. While the concept of the "Jewish National Home" (JNH) was openly made and directed by Mandate, what constituted a JNH was never defined until the Recommendation (approved) of the UN Special Commission for Palestine were made? This was the basis of the Independence established by the National Council for the Jewish State and the self-determination of their constituents.

That left an undefined reminder of territory that became undedicated even though it was intended to be an Arab State. It was orphaned as it was declined by the Arab Palestinians. That was capitalized on by the Hashemite Kingdom.


........
Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Picaro]

◈ Clearly, the Allied Powers at the Paris Peace Conference (1919) made no set promises to either side. For all intent and purposes, the British had tacit approval (that is no allied power would really interfere with the British), from the Council of the League of Nations, to administer the Mandates over Transjordan, Palestine and Iraq, without interference (from the Mediertainian to Persia).

◈ While not totally outside Bri.tish influence, the British recognized the Emirate of Transjordan (the Emerate was awarded to the Hashemites Royal family of the Hejaz) in May 1923; with full independence for Transjordan granted in 1946; → the sovereign of the British Empire recognizing the Emir as a Sovereign of Transjordan (ie King) by treaty.​

The importance of these two points cannot be overstated. East of the Jordan River would be considered a political territory under the rule of a dynastic Arabic. That left the Mandate Territory west of the Jordan River under the unspecified disposition of the British Mandate. That was capitalized on by the Hashemite Kingdom.
Most Respectfully,
R

The relevant part in my opinion is that Jordan has since abandoned its claim on the territories, and the PLO and Hamas can in no way be considered legitimate governments; Israel is free to settle and claim the area with the withdrawal of the Jordanian occupation. Jordan was the 'Arab Mandate' part of Palestine, not the PLO or Hamas.

 

[Marion Morrison]

The Temple Mount should be demolished and the area paved over into a parking lot. When little kids fight over a toy, you take it from them.

Another stupid remark

Him and the other new troll are chock full of them.

 

[Sixties Fan]

2. There seems to be an underlying assumption on your part that all of Palestine is Jewish land,

It's not an assumption. It's a legal and moral position taken after decades of research.

All of the Western section of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Jewish people. (Just as all of Eastern portion of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Arab Palestinian people, and Syria, Iraq and Lebanon were designated for the self-determination of their respective Arab people.)

The expectation in Western Palestine was that the Jewish Homeland would include a significant majority of Arab Muslims who would (of course!) have full civil rights without the right to self-determination since that right was housed with the Jewish people based on their existing, historical claim. (Just as Jewish self-determination would not be permitted on the east bank of the Jordan River where Arab Palestinians had the right to self-determination).

As we know, at first the Mandate for Palestine was assigned, all of it, to the Jewish People because it was all part of the Jewish Homeland.

The British changed the game, and only on that Mandate, where most of the land had to go to a newly arrived tribe of Arabs from Arabia, the Hashemites. Therefore 78% of the Mandate for the Jewish Homeland became the Hashemite Kingdom.

The Allies, probably especially the British, did a lot of harm not only to the Jews, but to the Kurds, when Kurdish land became part of the Iraq Mandate, instead of making all the land lived in by Kurds, an autonomous Kurdish State.

It is not only the Jews who ended losing with the Mandates, and how they ended up being sliced up, but the Kurds and other minorities as well.

As we know, the Muslims cannot have it that Jews will have sovereignty over any piece of land they have taken over for the past 1400 years, and that is why the Temple Mount became a place to fight for, like Hebron, the Cave, the other Jewish holy sites, after 1967, and only after 1967, when those place meant absolutely nothing to the Muslims before that year.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

2. There seems to be an underlying assumption on your part that all of Palestine is Jewish land,

It's not an assumption. It's a legal and moral position taken after decades of research.

All of the Western section of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Jewish people. (Just as all of Eastern portion of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Arab Palestinian people, and Syria, Iraq and Lebanon were designated for the self-determination of their respective Arab people.)

The expectation in Western Palestine was that the Jewish Homeland would include a significant majority of Arab Muslims who would (of course!) have full civil rights without the right to self-determination since that right was housed with the Jewish people based on their existing, historical claim. (Just as Jewish self-determination would not be permitted on the east bank of the Jordan River where Arab Palestinians had the right to self-determination).

As we know, at first the Mandate for Palestine was assigned, all of it, to the Jewish People because it was all part of the Jewish Homeland.

The British changed the game, and only on that Mandate, where most of the land had to go to a newly arrive tribe of Arabs from Arabia, the Hashemites. Therefore 78% of the Mandate for the Jewish Homeland became the Hashemite Kingdom.

The Allies, probably especially the British, did a lot of harm not only to the Jews, but to the Kurds, when Kurdish land became part of the Iraq Mandate, instead of making all the land lived in by Kurds, an autonomous Kurdish State.

It is not only the Jews who ended losing with the Mandates, and how they ended up being sliced up, but the Kurds and other minorities as well.

As we know, the Muslims cannot have it that Jews will have sovereignty over any piece of land they have taken over for the past 1400 years, and that is why the Temple Mount became a place to fight for, like Hebron, the Cave, the other Jewish holy sites, after 1967, and only after 1967, when those place meant absolutely nothing to the Muslims before that year.

Well, I really can't agree that these places "meant absolutely nothing" to the Muslims before 1967. The Temple Mount is, of course, the holiest place in Judaism, and the Muslims revere Mecca alot more than Jerusalem. But they still built the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aksa Mosque there hundreds of years ago, although their claim is based on a dubious legend. And they didn't allow the Jews to pray in the Cave, which they call the Ibrahimi Mosque, for 700 years. That was totally unfair, of course, but it also shows the Cave was holy to them long before 1967.

 

[Sixties Fan]

2. There seems to be an underlying assumption on your part that all of Palestine is Jewish land,

It's not an assumption. It's a legal and moral position taken after decades of research.

All of the Western section of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Jewish people. (Just as all of Eastern portion of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Arab Palestinian people, and Syria, Iraq and Lebanon were designated for the self-determination of their respective Arab people.)

The expectation in Western Palestine was that the Jewish Homeland would include a significant majority of Arab Muslims who would (of course!) have full civil rights without the right to self-determination since that right was housed with the Jewish people based on their existing, historical claim. (Just as Jewish self-determination would not be permitted on the east bank of the Jordan River where Arab Palestinians had the right to self-determination).

As we know, at first the Mandate for Palestine was assigned, all of it, to the Jewish People because it was all part of the Jewish Homeland.

The British changed the game, and only on that Mandate, where most of the land had to go to a newly arrive tribe of Arabs from Arabia, the Hashemites. Therefore 78% of the Mandate for the Jewish Homeland became the Hashemite Kingdom.

The Allies, probably especially the British, did a lot of harm not only to the Jews, but to the Kurds, when Kurdish land became part of the Iraq Mandate, instead of making all the land lived in by Kurds, an autonomous Kurdish State.

It is not only the Jews who ended losing with the Mandates, and how they ended up being sliced up, but the Kurds and other minorities as well.

As we know, the Muslims cannot have it that Jews will have sovereignty over any piece of land they have taken over for the past 1400 years, and that is why the Temple Mount became a place to fight for, like Hebron, the Cave, the other Jewish holy sites, after 1967, and only after 1967, when those place meant absolutely nothing to the Muslims before that year.

Well, I really can't agree that these places "meant absolutely nothing" to the Muslims before 1967. The Temple Mount is, of course, the holiest place in Judaism, and the Muslims revere Mecca alot more than Jerusalem. But they still built the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aksa Mosque there hundreds of years ago, although their claim is based on a dubious legend. And they didn't allow the Jews to pray in the Cave, which they call the Ibrahimi Mosque, for 700 years. That was totally unfair, of course, but it also shows the Cave was holy to them long before 1967.

I go by the way they let the Dome of the Rock deteriorate, and all the times they have tried to bomb Joseph and Rachel's Tomb, and other places.

They even destroy their own mosques from inside in order to attack the Jews on the Temple Mount.

Conquest of the territory is more important than respecting what they say is important to them.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

They think that Joseph is buried in the Cave of Machpelah. They therefore built a centaph to Joseph within that Cave, or what they call the Ibrahimi Mosque. Rachel isn't important to them. Of course, that's absolutely no excuse for not respecting the holy places of other faiths.

 

[Coyote]

2. There seems to be an underlying assumption on your part that all of Palestine is Jewish land,

It's not an assumption. It's a legal and moral position taken after decades of research.

All of the Western section of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Jewish people. (Just as all of Eastern portion of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Arab Palestinian people, and Syria, Iraq and Lebanon were designated for the self-determination of their respective Arab people.)

The expectation in Western Palestine was that the Jewish Homeland would include a significant majority of Arab Muslims who would (of course!) have full civil rights without the right to self-determination since that right was housed with the Jewish people based on their existing, historical claim. (Just as Jewish self-determination would not be permitted on the east bank of the Jordan River where Arab Palestinians had the right to self-determination).

As we know, at first the Mandate for Palestine was assigned, all of it, to the Jewish People because it was all part of the Jewish Homeland.

The British changed the game, and only on that Mandate, where most of the land had to go to a newly arrive tribe of Arabs from Arabia, the Hashemites. Therefore 78% of the Mandate for the Jewish Homeland became the Hashemite Kingdom.

The Allies, probably especially the British, did a lot of harm not only to the Jews, but to the Kurds, when Kurdish land became part of the Iraq Mandate, instead of making all the land lived in by Kurds, an autonomous Kurdish State.

It is not only the Jews who ended losing with the Mandates, and how they ended up being sliced up, but the Kurds and other minorities as well.

As we know, the Muslims cannot have it that Jews will have sovereignty over any piece of land they have taken over for the past 1400 years, and that is why the Temple Mount became a place to fight for, like Hebron, the Cave, the other Jewish holy sites, after 1967, and only after 1967, when those place meant absolutely nothing to the Muslims before that year.

Well, I really can't agree that these places "meant absolutely nothing" to the Muslims before 1967. The Temple Mount is, of course, the holiest place in Judaism, and the Muslims revere Mecca alot more than Jerusalem. But they still built the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aksa Mosque there hundreds of years ago, although their claim is based on a dubious legend. And they didn't allow the Jews to pray in the Cave, which they call the Ibrahimi Mosque, for 700 years. That was totally unfair, of course, but it also shows the Cave was holy to them long before 1967.

If it neant nothing they wouldnt be squabbling. What matters in this is what people BELIEVE.

 

[Sixties Fan]

2. There seems to be an underlying assumption on your part that all of Palestine is Jewish land,

It's not an assumption. It's a legal and moral position taken after decades of research.

All of the Western section of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Jewish people. (Just as all of Eastern portion of the Mandate for Palestine was designated for the self-determination of the Arab Palestinian people, and Syria, Iraq and Lebanon were designated for the self-determination of their respective Arab people.)

The expectation in Western Palestine was that the Jewish Homeland would include a significant majority of Arab Muslims who would (of course!) have full civil rights without the right to self-determination since that right was housed with the Jewish people based on their existing, historical claim. (Just as Jewish self-determination would not be permitted on the east bank of the Jordan River where Arab Palestinians had the right to self-determination).

As we know, at first the Mandate for Palestine was assigned, all of it, to the Jewish People because it was all part of the Jewish Homeland.

The British changed the game, and only on that Mandate, where most of the land had to go to a newly arrive tribe of Arabs from Arabia, the Hashemites. Therefore 78% of the Mandate for the Jewish Homeland became the Hashemite Kingdom.

The Allies, probably especially the British, did a lot of harm not only to the Jews, but to the Kurds, when Kurdish land became part of the Iraq Mandate, instead of making all the land lived in by Kurds, an autonomous Kurdish State.

It is not only the Jews who ended losing with the Mandates, and how they ended up being sliced up, but the Kurds and other minorities as well.

As we know, the Muslims cannot have it that Jews will have sovereignty over any piece of land they have taken over for the past 1400 years, and that is why the Temple Mount became a place to fight for, like Hebron, the Cave, the other Jewish holy sites, after 1967, and only after 1967, when those place meant absolutely nothing to the Muslims before that year.

Well, I really can't agree that these places "meant absolutely nothing" to the Muslims before 1967. The Temple Mount is, of course, the holiest place in Judaism, and the Muslims revere Mecca alot more than Jerusalem. But they still built the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aksa Mosque there hundreds of years ago, although their claim is based on a dubious legend. And they didn't allow the Jews to pray in the Cave, which they call the Ibrahimi Mosque, for 700 years. That was totally unfair, of course, but it also shows the Cave was holy to them long before 1967.

If it neant nothing they wouldnt be squabbling. What matters in this is what people BELIEVE.

It means something as Muslims who cannot allow Jews to be sovereign of their own homeland.

Had the area been taken over by Muslims, they would not be squabbling, anymore than they have ever squabbled over the Hashemites taking over TranJordan.