CDZ Civil War?

[GreenHank17]

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

With posts like that, it's no wonder why we are such a divided country. It would seem that to you:
Republican/Conservative = Bad, insane, dimwitted fools
Democrat/Progressive/Liberal = Good people
Sadly, for you, reality is far more complex than that.

Sorry I make an observation on what is. The country is divided? Yes did you gleen that from my post. Is this news to anyone?

Both sides aren't equally at fault though. This is the favorite tool that conservatives have been using the last 8 years that 'well it's everyone equally and it's all just tossed in a big pot and it's all just a mish mash'. No, it isn't. The conservative mindset ever since Barack Obama took office has been 'we will compromise on nothing ever and we will oppose everything he does or wants to do even if it aligns with what we want'. And now conservatives are beside themself when Democrats offer drumpf the same thing? You have to be kidding.

I'm not sure why you or anyone else would argue with the idea of breaking the country up into two or three other countries. You'll get to have exactly what you want all the time with no pesky 'libruls' to get in your way. I love America but democracies in general in history have lasted no more than 200 years. We are way past that and the stance by conservatives that they will not compromise on anything anymore is at war with the Constitution. The founders wrote that document to create a government of FORCED COMPROMISE. But Republicans decided they will cheat the other side out of a Supreme Court nominee just because they can manipulate the 'meaning' of something.

I'm sorry it's over and conservatives have killed it. I'm saying it would be far better for all the states to have a convention and decide to break up the country before another civil war takes place. Because that is where we are headed. One of the political parties, the Republicans, have decided they are above the Constitution.

It's over.

While I strongly disagree with what appears to be your political leanings, I do have to give you credit for your... candor. No, both sides are not equally at fault, that would be impossible. Who bears the burden of the "greater fault" is of little importance to me. The Republicans were, in part at least, the "party of no" for the last 8 years, this is true. At the same time, the Democrats passed legislation, without a single Republican vote, that vastly changes 1/6th of the economy. They couldn't get even one person to "cross the aisle". What does that, by itself, tell you? It tells me that it was a highly divisive piece of legislation, that they had to pass, in order to find out what was in it, according to Nancy Pelosi. Who, by the way, is now saying that they need to know what is in it, before they can vote on it(in reference to Trump's/Ryan's proposed plan). This is an example of the double standard that the DNC has and, apparently, no one has a problem with it.

Well, I have a problem with it. I, and hundreds of thousands of like minded people have a problem with BOTH parties. I have a problem with the Republicans being the "party of no", I have a problem with the DNC setting things up so that Mr. Sanders had no hope in hell of winning, even though the rank and file, of the DNC, liked, and voted, for him over Mrs. Clinton. Dems. want to say that Clinton won the popular vote in the general election (which she did), and therefore should be President; but have no problem with the fact that Sanders won the popular vote in the primary, and Clinton still got the nomination. Yet another double standard.

Seems that everyone wants to point the finger at "the other guy", well, we all are at fault here. We voted these people in, and have not cast them back out. We didn't speak up, at least not loud enough, when we saw the "little" things, we ALL have a hand in this. So, go ahead, point the finger wherever you like. Just remember, there are three more pointing back at YOU!!!

I think it's a complete waste of time arguing about who's more at fault for the mess we find ourselves in. The GOP was the party of No when Obama was POTUS, and now the Dems are the party of NO with Trump in the WH just as they were when Bush was the Pres. Nothing new, been that way for a very long time except now with the internet and the preponderance of cable news, blogs, and websites spouting off their analysis for one side or the other, that chasm has been amplified.

One thing about Trump, whatever his faults he ran as the anti-establishment candidate. Before that the Dems got their asses handed to them in the House in 2010, and in the Senate in 2014, so I do think the voters are talking with their votes. Are the Dems going to move further Left to appease their base? Right now the GOP is splintered, and if they don't get their act together and get something done they very well could find themselves back in the minority in Congress. We could be seeing the start of a continual flip between parties as one party gets in, does little or nothing to warrant re-election, and then the other party gets in and does the same thing.

I think Trump tried to go along with the GOP establishment on the ACA repeal and replace bill and it obviously blew up in his face. His fault? Okay, but maybe a bit understandable especially for a political rookie. The question is what does he do from here on out, does he try to woo the moderate dems, the ones in states he won in 2016 who are up for re-election in 2018? Obviously he's going to follow the route Obama laid out with all his Executive actions except in reverse, and this latest business with going to the nuclear option over Gorsuch will have an impact. Will the Dems cooperate at all or will the GOP finally just go with the nuclear option on everything? Yes, I know the Repubs didn't cooperate with the Dems either, but under Obama and Reid I don't think they ever got the chance.

Right now our political leadership is failing us in both parties. Maybe that changes, cuz if it doesn't I think hard times are a comin'. The path we're on right now is not sustainable, and the problems we have are going to worsen IMHO.

Nothing good can happen until Citizens united is overturned and real campaign finance reform is enacted. We the people just don't have a say anymore, it has never been more clear.

 

[task0778]

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

With posts like that, it's no wonder why we are such a divided country. It would seem that to you:
Republican/Conservative = Bad, insane, dimwitted fools
Democrat/Progressive/Liberal = Good people
Sadly, for you, reality is far more complex than that.

Sorry I make an observation on what is. The country is divided? Yes did you gleen that from my post. Is this news to anyone?

Both sides aren't equally at fault though. This is the favorite tool that conservatives have been using the last 8 years that 'well it's everyone equally and it's all just tossed in a big pot and it's all just a mish mash'. No, it isn't. The conservative mindset ever since Barack Obama took office has been 'we will compromise on nothing ever and we will oppose everything he does or wants to do even if it aligns with what we want'. And now conservatives are beside themself when Democrats offer drumpf the same thing? You have to be kidding.

I'm not sure why you or anyone else would argue with the idea of breaking the country up into two or three other countries. You'll get to have exactly what you want all the time with no pesky 'libruls' to get in your way. I love America but democracies in general in history have lasted no more than 200 years. We are way past that and the stance by conservatives that they will not compromise on anything anymore is at war with the Constitution. The founders wrote that document to create a government of FORCED COMPROMISE. But Republicans decided they will cheat the other side out of a Supreme Court nominee just because they can manipulate the 'meaning' of something.

I'm sorry it's over and conservatives have killed it. I'm saying it would be far better for all the states to have a convention and decide to break up the country before another civil war takes place. Because that is where we are headed. One of the political parties, the Republicans, have decided they are above the Constitution.

It's over.

While I strongly disagree with what appears to be your political leanings, I do have to give you credit for your... candor. No, both sides are not equally at fault, that would be impossible. Who bears the burden of the "greater fault" is of little importance to me. The Republicans were, in part at least, the "party of no" for the last 8 years, this is true. At the same time, the Democrats passed legislation, without a single Republican vote, that vastly changes 1/6th of the economy. They couldn't get even one person to "cross the aisle". What does that, by itself, tell you? It tells me that it was a highly divisive piece of legislation, that they had to pass, in order to find out what was in it, according to Nancy Pelosi. Who, by the way, is now saying that they need to know what is in it, before they can vote on it(in reference to Trump's/Ryan's proposed plan). This is an example of the double standard that the DNC has and, apparently, no one has a problem with it.

Well, I have a problem with it. I, and hundreds of thousands of like minded people have a problem with BOTH parties. I have a problem with the Republicans being the "party of no", I have a problem with the DNC setting things up so that Mr. Sanders had no hope in hell of winning, even though the rank and file, of the DNC, liked, and voted, for him over Mrs. Clinton. Dems. want to say that Clinton won the popular vote in the general election (which she did), and therefore should be President; but have no problem with the fact that Sanders won the popular vote in the primary, and Clinton still got the nomination. Yet another double standard.

Seems that everyone wants to point the finger at "the other guy", well, we all are at fault here. We voted these people in, and have not cast them back out. We didn't speak up, at least not loud enough, when we saw the "little" things, we ALL have a hand in this. So, go ahead, point the finger wherever you like. Just remember, there are three more pointing back at YOU!!!

I think it's a complete waste of time arguing about who's more at fault for the mess we find ourselves in. The GOP was the party of No when Obama was POTUS, and now the Dems are the party of NO with Trump in the WH just as they were when Bush was the Pres. Nothing new, been that way for a very long time except now with the internet and the preponderance of cable news, blogs, and websites spouting off their analysis for one side or the other, that chasm has been amplified.

One thing about Trump, whatever his faults he ran as the anti-establishment candidate. Before that the Dems got their asses handed to them in the House in 2010, and in the Senate in 2014, so I do think the voters are talking with their votes. Are the Dems going to move further Left to appease their base? Right now the GOP is splintered, and if they don't get their act together and get something done they very well could find themselves back in the minority in Congress. We could be seeing the start of a continual flip between parties as one party gets in, does little or nothing to warrant re-election, and then the other party gets in and does the same thing.

I think Trump tried to go along with the GOP establishment on the ACA repeal and replace bill and it obviously blew up in his face. His fault? Okay, but maybe a bit understandable especially for a political rookie. The question is what does he do from here on out, does he try to woo the moderate dems, the ones in states he won in 2016 who are up for re-election in 2018? Obviously he's going to follow the route Obama laid out with all his Executive actions except in reverse, and this latest business with going to the nuclear option over Gorsuch will have an impact. Will the Dems cooperate at all or will the GOP finally just go with the nuclear option on everything? Yes, I know the Repubs didn't cooperate with the Dems either, but under Obama and Reid I don't think they ever got the chance.

Right now our political leadership is failing us in both parties. Maybe that changes, cuz if it doesn't I think hard times are a comin'. The path we're on right now is not sustainable, and the problems we have are going to worsen IMHO.

Nothing good can happen until Citizens united is overturned and real campaign finance reform is enacted. We the people just don't have a say anymore, it has never been more clear.

Nonsense, Citizens v United has nothing at all to do with what's been going on in Washington. Hillary spent way more than Trump and lost. Which is not to say the lobbyists aren't influential, but they always find a way to buy influence.

 

[GreenHank17]

With posts like that, it's no wonder why we are such a divided country. It would seem that to you:
Republican/Conservative = Bad, insane, dimwitted fools
Democrat/Progressive/Liberal = Good people
Sadly, for you, reality is far more complex than that.

Sorry I make an observation on what is. The country is divided? Yes did you gleen that from my post. Is this news to anyone?

Both sides aren't equally at fault though. This is the favorite tool that conservatives have been using the last 8 years that 'well it's everyone equally and it's all just tossed in a big pot and it's all just a mish mash'. No, it isn't. The conservative mindset ever since Barack Obama took office has been 'we will compromise on nothing ever and we will oppose everything he does or wants to do even if it aligns with what we want'. And now conservatives are beside themself when Democrats offer drumpf the same thing? You have to be kidding.

I'm not sure why you or anyone else would argue with the idea of breaking the country up into two or three other countries. You'll get to have exactly what you want all the time with no pesky 'libruls' to get in your way. I love America but democracies in general in history have lasted no more than 200 years. We are way past that and the stance by conservatives that they will not compromise on anything anymore is at war with the Constitution. The founders wrote that document to create a government of FORCED COMPROMISE. But Republicans decided they will cheat the other side out of a Supreme Court nominee just because they can manipulate the 'meaning' of something.

I'm sorry it's over and conservatives have killed it. I'm saying it would be far better for all the states to have a convention and decide to break up the country before another civil war takes place. Because that is where we are headed. One of the political parties, the Republicans, have decided they are above the Constitution.

It's over.

While I strongly disagree with what appears to be your political leanings, I do have to give you credit for your... candor. No, both sides are not equally at fault, that would be impossible. Who bears the burden of the "greater fault" is of little importance to me. The Republicans were, in part at least, the "party of no" for the last 8 years, this is true. At the same time, the Democrats passed legislation, without a single Republican vote, that vastly changes 1/6th of the economy. They couldn't get even one person to "cross the aisle". What does that, by itself, tell you? It tells me that it was a highly divisive piece of legislation, that they had to pass, in order to find out what was in it, according to Nancy Pelosi. Who, by the way, is now saying that they need to know what is in it, before they can vote on it(in reference to Trump's/Ryan's proposed plan). This is an example of the double standard that the DNC has and, apparently, no one has a problem with it.

Well, I have a problem with it. I, and hundreds of thousands of like minded people have a problem with BOTH parties. I have a problem with the Republicans being the "party of no", I have a problem with the DNC setting things up so that Mr. Sanders had no hope in hell of winning, even though the rank and file, of the DNC, liked, and voted, for him over Mrs. Clinton. Dems. want to say that Clinton won the popular vote in the general election (which she did), and therefore should be President; but have no problem with the fact that Sanders won the popular vote in the primary, and Clinton still got the nomination. Yet another double standard.

Seems that everyone wants to point the finger at "the other guy", well, we all are at fault here. We voted these people in, and have not cast them back out. We didn't speak up, at least not loud enough, when we saw the "little" things, we ALL have a hand in this. So, go ahead, point the finger wherever you like. Just remember, there are three more pointing back at YOU!!!

I think it's a complete waste of time arguing about who's more at fault for the mess we find ourselves in. The GOP was the party of No when Obama was POTUS, and now the Dems are the party of NO with Trump in the WH just as they were when Bush was the Pres. Nothing new, been that way for a very long time except now with the internet and the preponderance of cable news, blogs, and websites spouting off their analysis for one side or the other, that chasm has been amplified.

One thing about Trump, whatever his faults he ran as the anti-establishment candidate. Before that the Dems got their asses handed to them in the House in 2010, and in the Senate in 2014, so I do think the voters are talking with their votes. Are the Dems going to move further Left to appease their base? Right now the GOP is splintered, and if they don't get their act together and get something done they very well could find themselves back in the minority in Congress. We could be seeing the start of a continual flip between parties as one party gets in, does little or nothing to warrant re-election, and then the other party gets in and does the same thing.

I think Trump tried to go along with the GOP establishment on the ACA repeal and replace bill and it obviously blew up in his face. His fault? Okay, but maybe a bit understandable especially for a political rookie. The question is what does he do from here on out, does he try to woo the moderate dems, the ones in states he won in 2016 who are up for re-election in 2018? Obviously he's going to follow the route Obama laid out with all his Executive actions except in reverse, and this latest business with going to the nuclear option over Gorsuch will have an impact. Will the Dems cooperate at all or will the GOP finally just go with the nuclear option on everything? Yes, I know the Repubs didn't cooperate with the Dems either, but under Obama and Reid I don't think they ever got the chance.

Right now our political leadership is failing us in both parties. Maybe that changes, cuz if it doesn't I think hard times are a comin'. The path we're on right now is not sustainable, and the problems we have are going to worsen IMHO.

Nothing good can happen until Citizens united is overturned and real campaign finance reform is enacted. We the people just don't have a say anymore, it has never been more clear.

Nonsense, Citizens v United has nothing at all to do with what's been going on in Washington. Hillary spent way more than Trump and lost. Which is not to say the lobbyists aren't influential, but they always find a way to buy influence.

Why would you think that Hilary could ever bring anything good? She and the Dems are part of the problem, not the solution. Citizen United gives way too much influence to the corporate "elite" and undermines the concept of one person, one vote.

 

[task0778]

Sorry I make an observation on what is. The country is divided? Yes did you gleen that from my post. Is this news to anyone?

Both sides aren't equally at fault though. This is the favorite tool that conservatives have been using the last 8 years that 'well it's everyone equally and it's all just tossed in a big pot and it's all just a mish mash'. No, it isn't. The conservative mindset ever since Barack Obama took office has been 'we will compromise on nothing ever and we will oppose everything he does or wants to do even if it aligns with what we want'. And now conservatives are beside themself when Democrats offer drumpf the same thing? You have to be kidding.

I'm not sure why you or anyone else would argue with the idea of breaking the country up into two or three other countries. You'll get to have exactly what you want all the time with no pesky 'libruls' to get in your way. I love America but democracies in general in history have lasted no more than 200 years. We are way past that and the stance by conservatives that they will not compromise on anything anymore is at war with the Constitution. The founders wrote that document to create a government of FORCED COMPROMISE. But Republicans decided they will cheat the other side out of a Supreme Court nominee just because they can manipulate the 'meaning' of something.

I'm sorry it's over and conservatives have killed it. I'm saying it would be far better for all the states to have a convention and decide to break up the country before another civil war takes place. Because that is where we are headed. One of the political parties, the Republicans, have decided they are above the Constitution.

It's over.

While I strongly disagree with what appears to be your political leanings, I do have to give you credit for your... candor. No, both sides are not equally at fault, that would be impossible. Who bears the burden of the "greater fault" is of little importance to me. The Republicans were, in part at least, the "party of no" for the last 8 years, this is true. At the same time, the Democrats passed legislation, without a single Republican vote, that vastly changes 1/6th of the economy. They couldn't get even one person to "cross the aisle". What does that, by itself, tell you? It tells me that it was a highly divisive piece of legislation, that they had to pass, in order to find out what was in it, according to Nancy Pelosi. Who, by the way, is now saying that they need to know what is in it, before they can vote on it(in reference to Trump's/Ryan's proposed plan). This is an example of the double standard that the DNC has and, apparently, no one has a problem with it.

Well, I have a problem with it. I, and hundreds of thousands of like minded people have a problem with BOTH parties. I have a problem with the Republicans being the "party of no", I have a problem with the DNC setting things up so that Mr. Sanders had no hope in hell of winning, even though the rank and file, of the DNC, liked, and voted, for him over Mrs. Clinton. Dems. want to say that Clinton won the popular vote in the general election (which she did), and therefore should be President; but have no problem with the fact that Sanders won the popular vote in the primary, and Clinton still got the nomination. Yet another double standard.

Seems that everyone wants to point the finger at "the other guy", well, we all are at fault here. We voted these people in, and have not cast them back out. We didn't speak up, at least not loud enough, when we saw the "little" things, we ALL have a hand in this. So, go ahead, point the finger wherever you like. Just remember, there are three more pointing back at YOU!!!

I think it's a complete waste of time arguing about who's more at fault for the mess we find ourselves in. The GOP was the party of No when Obama was POTUS, and now the Dems are the party of NO with Trump in the WH just as they were when Bush was the Pres. Nothing new, been that way for a very long time except now with the internet and the preponderance of cable news, blogs, and websites spouting off their analysis for one side or the other, that chasm has been amplified.

One thing about Trump, whatever his faults he ran as the anti-establishment candidate. Before that the Dems got their asses handed to them in the House in 2010, and in the Senate in 2014, so I do think the voters are talking with their votes. Are the Dems going to move further Left to appease their base? Right now the GOP is splintered, and if they don't get their act together and get something done they very well could find themselves back in the minority in Congress. We could be seeing the start of a continual flip between parties as one party gets in, does little or nothing to warrant re-election, and then the other party gets in and does the same thing.

I think Trump tried to go along with the GOP establishment on the ACA repeal and replace bill and it obviously blew up in his face. His fault? Okay, but maybe a bit understandable especially for a political rookie. The question is what does he do from here on out, does he try to woo the moderate dems, the ones in states he won in 2016 who are up for re-election in 2018? Obviously he's going to follow the route Obama laid out with all his Executive actions except in reverse, and this latest business with going to the nuclear option over Gorsuch will have an impact. Will the Dems cooperate at all or will the GOP finally just go with the nuclear option on everything? Yes, I know the Repubs didn't cooperate with the Dems either, but under Obama and Reid I don't think they ever got the chance.

Right now our political leadership is failing us in both parties. Maybe that changes, cuz if it doesn't I think hard times are a comin'. The path we're on right now is not sustainable, and the problems we have are going to worsen IMHO.

Nothing good can happen until Citizens united is overturned and real campaign finance reform is enacted. We the people just don't have a say anymore, it has never been more clear.

Nonsense, Citizens v United has nothing at all to do with what's been going on in Washington. Hillary spent way more than Trump and lost. Which is not to say the lobbyists aren't influential, but they always find a way to buy influence.

Why would you think that Hilary could ever bring anything good? Never said she would, why would you think I said that? She and the Dems are part of the problem, not the solution. Citizen United gives way too much influence to the corporate "elite" and undermines the concept of one person, one vote.

"Citizen United gives way too much influence to the corporate "elite""

Curious to know if you have any solid evidence to back that up. I think Big Biz has always had too much influence, long before CvU came along.

"She and the Dems are part of the problem, not the solution."

True, IMHO. Unfortunately, I'd have to add that the Repubs are also a part of the problem too.

"undermines the concept of one person, one vote"

I don't think this is true either, Hillary got a lot of money from Big Corps, a lot more than Trump did but she lost anyway. Gimme some reason to believe this statement is true.

 

[Dragonlady]

Why do republicans feel that democrats are conspiring against them and all-but declaring war on them.

This is an honest question, I'm trying to get a perspective of the mindset.

I don't think it's the honest, respectable Democrats but the Liberal Progressive Socialists who call themselves Democrat. They should be neutered and spayed and locked up in mental hospitals.

This seems to be a standard comment from right wingers - the same right wingers that refused to acknowledge that Obama was their President. American conservatives are the most stiff necked, arrogant twits ever, because they refuse to acknowledge their limitations, and they keep repeating their economic mistakes - cutting taxes and increasing the deficit. It's the only thing they know, and it's destroyed the economy, but instead of trying something different, they are teeing up to cut taxes and increase spending.

 

[GreenHank17]

While I strongly disagree with what appears to be your political leanings, I do have to give you credit for your... candor. No, both sides are not equally at fault, that would be impossible. Who bears the burden of the "greater fault" is of little importance to me. The Republicans were, in part at least, the "party of no" for the last 8 years, this is true. At the same time, the Democrats passed legislation, without a single Republican vote, that vastly changes 1/6th of the economy. They couldn't get even one person to "cross the aisle". What does that, by itself, tell you? It tells me that it was a highly divisive piece of legislation, that they had to pass, in order to find out what was in it, according to Nancy Pelosi. Who, by the way, is now saying that they need to know what is in it, before they can vote on it(in reference to Trump's/Ryan's proposed plan). This is an example of the double standard that the DNC has and, apparently, no one has a problem with it.

Well, I have a problem with it. I, and hundreds of thousands of like minded people have a problem with BOTH parties. I have a problem with the Republicans being the "party of no", I have a problem with the DNC setting things up so that Mr. Sanders had no hope in hell of winning, even though the rank and file, of the DNC, liked, and voted, for him over Mrs. Clinton. Dems. want to say that Clinton won the popular vote in the general election (which she did), and therefore should be President; but have no problem with the fact that Sanders won the popular vote in the primary, and Clinton still got the nomination. Yet another double standard.

Seems that everyone wants to point the finger at "the other guy", well, we all are at fault here. We voted these people in, and have not cast them back out. We didn't speak up, at least not loud enough, when we saw the "little" things, we ALL have a hand in this. So, go ahead, point the finger wherever you like. Just remember, there are three more pointing back at YOU!!!

I think it's a complete waste of time arguing about who's more at fault for the mess we find ourselves in. The GOP was the party of No when Obama was POTUS, and now the Dems are the party of NO with Trump in the WH just as they were when Bush was the Pres. Nothing new, been that way for a very long time except now with the internet and the preponderance of cable news, blogs, and websites spouting off their analysis for one side or the other, that chasm has been amplified.

One thing about Trump, whatever his faults he ran as the anti-establishment candidate. Before that the Dems got their asses handed to them in the House in 2010, and in the Senate in 2014, so I do think the voters are talking with their votes. Are the Dems going to move further Left to appease their base? Right now the GOP is splintered, and if they don't get their act together and get something done they very well could find themselves back in the minority in Congress. We could be seeing the start of a continual flip between parties as one party gets in, does little or nothing to warrant re-election, and then the other party gets in and does the same thing.

I think Trump tried to go along with the GOP establishment on the ACA repeal and replace bill and it obviously blew up in his face. His fault? Okay, but maybe a bit understandable especially for a political rookie. The question is what does he do from here on out, does he try to woo the moderate dems, the ones in states he won in 2016 who are up for re-election in 2018? Obviously he's going to follow the route Obama laid out with all his Executive actions except in reverse, and this latest business with going to the nuclear option over Gorsuch will have an impact. Will the Dems cooperate at all or will the GOP finally just go with the nuclear option on everything? Yes, I know the Repubs didn't cooperate with the Dems either, but under Obama and Reid I don't think they ever got the chance.

Right now our political leadership is failing us in both parties. Maybe that changes, cuz if it doesn't I think hard times are a comin'. The path we're on right now is not sustainable, and the problems we have are going to worsen IMHO.

Nothing good can happen until Citizens united is overturned and real campaign finance reform is enacted. We the people just don't have a say anymore, it has never been more clear.

Nonsense, Citizens v United has nothing at all to do with what's been going on in Washington. Hillary spent way more than Trump and lost. Which is not to say the lobbyists aren't influential, but they always find a way to buy influence.

Why would you think that Hilary could ever bring anything good? Never said she would, why would you think I said that? She and the Dems are part of the problem, not the solution. Citizen United gives way too much influence to the corporate "elite" and undermines the concept of one person, one vote.

"Citizen United gives way too much influence to the corporate "elite""

Curious to know if you have any solid evidence to back that up. I think Big Biz has always had too much influence, long before CvU came along.

"She and the Dems are part of the problem, not the solution."

True, IMHO. Unfortunately, I'd have to add that the Repubs are also a part of the problem too.

"undermines the concept of one person, one vote"

I don't think this is true either, Hillary got a lot of money from Big Corps, a lot more than Trump did but she lost anyway. Gimme some reason to believe this statement is true.

I think it is absolutely wrong for corporations to be treated with the same rights as individuals. The appointment of Judge Gorsuch is helping with the corporatizing of America. Repubs and Dems have too long been allowed to screw things up, we need more parties that can apply resistance to the duopoly that is ruining this country.

Do you think Citizen's United is good for this country?

 

[task0778]

I think it's a complete waste of time arguing about who's more at fault for the mess we find ourselves in. The GOP was the party of No when Obama was POTUS, and now the Dems are the party of NO with Trump in the WH just as they were when Bush was the Pres. Nothing new, been that way for a very long time except now with the internet and the preponderance of cable news, blogs, and websites spouting off their analysis for one side or the other, that chasm has been amplified.

One thing about Trump, whatever his faults he ran as the anti-establishment candidate. Before that the Dems got their asses handed to them in the House in 2010, and in the Senate in 2014, so I do think the voters are talking with their votes. Are the Dems going to move further Left to appease their base? Right now the GOP is splintered, and if they don't get their act together and get something done they very well could find themselves back in the minority in Congress. We could be seeing the start of a continual flip between parties as one party gets in, does little or nothing to warrant re-election, and then the other party gets in and does the same thing.

I think Trump tried to go along with the GOP establishment on the ACA repeal and replace bill and it obviously blew up in his face. His fault? Okay, but maybe a bit understandable especially for a political rookie. The question is what does he do from here on out, does he try to woo the moderate dems, the ones in states he won in 2016 who are up for re-election in 2018? Obviously he's going to follow the route Obama laid out with all his Executive actions except in reverse, and this latest business with going to the nuclear option over Gorsuch will have an impact. Will the Dems cooperate at all or will the GOP finally just go with the nuclear option on everything? Yes, I know the Repubs didn't cooperate with the Dems either, but under Obama and Reid I don't think they ever got the chance.

Right now our political leadership is failing us in both parties. Maybe that changes, cuz if it doesn't I think hard times are a comin'. The path we're on right now is not sustainable, and the problems we have are going to worsen IMHO.

Nothing good can happen until Citizens united is overturned and real campaign finance reform is enacted. We the people just don't have a say anymore, it has never been more clear.

Nonsense, Citizens v United has nothing at all to do with what's been going on in Washington. Hillary spent way more than Trump and lost. Which is not to say the lobbyists aren't influential, but they always find a way to buy influence.

Why would you think that Hilary could ever bring anything good? Never said she would, why would you think I said that? She and the Dems are part of the problem, not the solution. Citizen United gives way too much influence to the corporate "elite" and undermines the concept of one person, one vote.

"Citizen United gives way too much influence to the corporate "elite""

Curious to know if you have any solid evidence to back that up. I think Big Biz has always had too much influence, long before CvU came along.

"She and the Dems are part of the problem, not the solution."

True, IMHO. Unfortunately, I'd have to add that the Repubs are also a part of the problem too.

"undermines the concept of one person, one vote"

I don't think this is true either, Hillary got a lot of money from Big Corps, a lot more than Trump did but she lost anyway. Gimme some reason to believe this statement is true.

I think it is absolutely wrong for corporations to be treated with the same rights as individuals. The appointment of Judge Gorsuch is helping with the corporatizing of America. Repubs and Dems have too long been allowed to screw things up, we need more parties that can apply resistance to the duopoly that is ruining this country.

Do you think Citizen's United is good for this country?

Okay, you raised 3 different issues in your post:

1. I see no reason why corps can't have freedom of speech (which includes political donations) just like citizens and unions do. A corporation actually represents a group of people just like a union does. Employees, customers, suppliers, etc. And they pay taxes too, so IMHO it's a hard sell to say they can't have a voice in our governance. Which doesn't mean carte blanche, there oughta be total transparency over who contributes money to who. But I think the impact of CvU is greatly over-rated, big corps give big money to both sides; it ain't like campaign spending has tilted to the right since that ruling.

2. Why do you think Gorsuch is for corporatizing America? Show me some evidence and reasoning behind that opinion.

3. I'm okay with more political parties. However, I wouldn't bet the rent that a 3rd or more parties is the answer to our political difficulties. People are still people.

Do I think Citizens v United is good for the USA? I don't see a big difference one way or the other, it's been neither good nor bad IMHO.

 

[gallantwarrior]

What makes you believe that, because from what I've seen, republicans are taking a counteroffensive against a non-existant enemy. The two parties are supposed to work together and compromise to find what's best for the american people

And yet, both parties have failed to do just that, repeatedly. One side will not compromise, unless "compromise" effectively means the other side buckling to their agenda.

 

[gallantwarrior]

You obviously do not feel that Democrats feel the same way about Republicans, so any "discussion" would be pointless. Until you recognize that this "feeling" is a two way street, a game played by two, you will never find perspective.


I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat.

I recognize that it is both ways, but republicans just seem to voice it more, from what I have personally seen. I am a democrat, but I try to stay as neutral as possible and base my ideals on my own judgement.

I personally believe both sides are being "brainwashed," so to speak, to hate the other side.

A lot of this has to do with the media outlets you patronize. Obviously, you patronize the "demoncrat" media. Therefore, you would tend to view the Repubs as the enemy. Many other people hold the view that demoncrats voice their opposition more because they tend to take to the streets, shout down any opposing opinions or facts, burn and loot more than typical "republicans".

 

[gallantwarrior]

It all boils down to each sides belief system. Democrats feel bigger government is better, Republicans believe smaller government is better. It's always been that way but lately, democrats think they OWN the country and that there is no other plausible way to govern the country. That is wrong and borders on totalitarianism. The thing the founding fathers didn't want. The democratic party needs to take a good, long, hard look at what they are doing to the country..

Basically, Democrats/liberals/progressives feel that they cannot accomplish anything unless government intercedes on their behalf. They are helpless to positively affect their own lives and outcomes. Republicans/conservatives prefer government to get out of their lives and allow them to sink, or swim, on their own merits. Dems are perpetual victims, Repubs are perpetual doers.
Personally, I'd prefer to be left alone to make my own way, therefore, I tend to be considered a "republican".

 

[gallantwarrior]

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

How exactly would you unite two coastal entities divided by another "red" country? Or would "East US" and "West US" become two separate countries divided geographically by the USA?
I do agree, it's time to sheets. How do you propose we do this?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

It's not a coincidence that those blue states tend to be on the coasts. A state like California has advantages associated with international trade that other states do not. Not only directly through the shipping industries but also from companies locating there to be near shipping facilities. Some what of an "apples and oranges" comparison. Think about it, where would California's economy be without international trade?

Where would they be without the Federal govmt?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

It's not a coincidence that those blue states tend to be on the coasts. A state like California has advantages associated with international trade that other states do not. Not only directly through the shipping industries but also from companies locating there to be near shipping facilities. Some what of an "apples and oranges" comparison. Think about it, where would California's economy be without international trade?

No the only difference is Blue States are where people are and red states are mostly dirt. This is why all these election maps that show 90% of the country voting red are useless. Dirt doesn't vote or matter, people do. And people generate income and wealth. Almost all the southern states have coastline yet they are poor. Again eliminate Taxus and it's oil and there is no wealth in the red states. It has always been this way, when the civil war started the entire confederacy's economy was one fourth the size of New York alone.
We

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

It's not a coincidence that those blue states tend to be on the coasts. A state like California has advantages associated with international trade that other states do not. Not only directly through the shipping industries but also from companies locating there to be near shipping facilities. Some what of an "apples and oranges" comparison. Think about it, where would California's economy be without international trade?

No the only difference is Blue States are where people are and red states are mostly dirt. This is why all these election maps that show 90% of the country voting red are useless. Dirt doesn't vote or matter, people do. And people generate income and wealth. Almost all the southern states have coastline yet they are poor. Again eliminate Taxus and it's oil and there is no wealth in the red states. It has always been this way, when the civil war started the entire confederacy's economy was one fourth the size of New York alone.

Like Venice, Florence, London, Paris, intelligent and creative people congregate in a city they are most comfortable in and can meet other creative people. You just have to read this forum and see what Republicans do as soon as they have power, "let's get rid of the arts and PBS".

Creative people know this.

Art never fed one mouth. Most of your "red states" contribute to feeding, clothing, and housing this nation. Let your "blue states" subsist on their lofty ideals.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

How exactly would you unite two coastal entities divided by another "red" country? Or would "East US" and "West US" become two separate countries divided geographically by the USA?
I do agree, it's time to sheets. How do you propose we do this?

It wouldn't be divided strictly by 'red states/blue states'. Likely a corridor along the Canada border would have to go over to the new blue country. And Base leases in one of the western three states would have to be secured by the new red country as with Caribbean ports for the new blue country. Or as with Alaska and Hawaii both new countries would have various separate entities. In any case it would have to be hashed out, maybe the blue country could pay for Montana or North Dakota etc. States would likely vote on which new country to join. Also likely there would be a large migration of people's to live in their preferred country.

But it's time. Everyone go their separate way and be happy.

Imagine conservatives waking up in a country where your Supreme Court was entirely made up of conservatives, and there were no labor unions or labor laws, companies controlled the work place with no OSHA, no work place safety or overtime/vacation/leave/fair treatment laws. Protesting would be outlawed. Abortion would be illegal in all states as federal law with no exclusion for rape or incest. Television and movies would be screened to 'proper' content and anything racier than Leave It To Beaver would be banned. All the great books of humanity would be banned as well, biblical teaching would be required in all schools and science and evolution would be outlawed and no court could overturn this.

Think of this utopia you seem so virulent to achieve. You could have it all.

Call or write your legislators, let's get this snowball rolling!

 

[gallantwarrior]

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

How exactly would you unite two coastal entities divided by another "red" country? Or would "East US" and "West US" become two separate countries divided geographically by the USA?
I do agree, it's time to sheets. How do you propose we do this?

It wouldn't be divided strictly by 'red states/blue states'. Likely a corridor along the Canada border would have to go over to the new blue country. And Base leases in one of the western three states would have to be secured by the new red country as with Caribbean ports for the new blue country. Or as with Alaska and Hawaii both new countries would have various separate entities. In any case it would have to be hashed out, maybe the blue country could pay for Montana or North Dakota etc. States would likely vote on which new country to join. Also likely there would be a large migration of people's to live in their preferred country.

But it's time. Everyone go their separate way and be happy.

Imagine conservatives waking up in a country where your Supreme Court was entirely made up of conservatives, and there were no labor unions or labor laws, companies controlled the work place with no OSHA, no work place safety or overtime/vacation/leave/fair treatment laws. Protesting would be outlawed. Abortion would be illegal in all states as federal law with no exclusion for rape or incest. Television and movies would be screened to 'proper' content and anything racier than Leave It To Beaver would be banned. All the great books of humanity would be banned as well, biblical teaching would be required in all schools and science and evolution would be outlawed and no court could overturn this.

Think of this utopia you seem so virulent to achieve. You could have it all.

Call or write your legislators, let's get this snowball rolling!

I seem so virulent to achieve? I live in Alaska. Agriculture is limited to a very short season. Indidigent peoples are traditionally nomadic hunter-gathers. Large portions of this state are still disconnected with no road connections. My home is supplied by my own power generation, as are many others. Government serves only specific populations, the rest are on there own.
Puhleese! I don't care who you fuck, whether you use abortion as birth control, or how you educate your spawn. I'm concerned about where my chow comes from and whether your government will somehow manage to make my acquisition of the food I need to survive, or the way I heat my home, will be criminalized.

 

[Darkwind]

You obviously do not feel that Democrats feel the same way about Republicans, so any "discussion" would be pointless. Until you recognize that this "feeling" is a two way street, a game played by two, you will never find perspective.


I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat.

I recognize that it is both ways, but republicans just seem to voice it more, from what I have personally seen. I am a democrat, but I try to stay as neutral as possible and base my ideals on my own judgement.

I personally believe both sides are being "brainwashed," so to speak, to hate the other side.

Republicans are too intelligent to succumb to brainwashing tactics but one can purchase a Democrat Brainwashing Kit at any Walgreens.

​

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Where does this hatred come from? I've not said anything to offend anyone, but the fact that I have a different opinion immediately makes every republican hate me. As if my very existance were insulting to them.

It may be that you personally haven't, and its a poor reflection on the other side that they don't recognize that. Having said that, for the past 30+ years, Democrats (more specifically, the radicalized left wing known as progressives) have waged war against anyone who does not think exactly the same way they do. If you claim to be a person who values your own judgment, then sooner or later, it will run counter to theirs and you too will become a target. It is only a matter of time.

There was a time when the Republicans and many conservatives on the web forums would try to take a high road and not resort to straight insults until they had been insulted first. Now, no one even bothers. Its straight for the throat and fuck everything else.

I guess the answer is, the right is tired of being called names and they're going to fight back with ferocity.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

Let us go forth with the break up of the United States. It is long past due and nothing lasts forever.

The Blue States are the ones that produce the most income for the federal government by far. Without Taxus and the oil industry the red states are a 4th world economy. 75% of the red states take most of the welfare from the government.

So let us break it up. Conservatives you can go have your Fake Jesus and Gun Emporium Only True Amuhrca country, build a 30 foot wall around it, deport everyone except the KKK, abolish unions and protests, reinstate slavery, force 12 year old girls that were raped by a family member to carry the child to term and the rest of the long list of depravity that is your core belief system. And you could do this without fear of anyone overturning your 1835 throwback laws or suing you in court. And you wouldn't have a need for talk radio as all it is now is 24/7 propaganda for the Republicans of how life is miserable and its all someone else's fault.

Easy solution to all the country's woes, break it up. The new Progressive America would be wealthy and produce all the food, technology, and movies it does now and we wouldn't have to listen to or deal with the underbelly of humanity in people like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or drumpf. The whackos could go form their own insane asylum and pick one dear leader who's family would lead them through generations.

Honestly it's time. Conservatives are like dragging around a ball and chain all the time that is trying to drag everyone back to the 19th century.

How exactly would you unite two coastal entities divided by another "red" country? Or would "East US" and "West US" become two separate countries divided geographically by the USA?
I do agree, it's time to sheets. How do you propose we do this?

It wouldn't be divided strictly by 'red states/blue states'. Likely a corridor along the Canada border would have to go over to the new blue country. And Base leases in one of the western three states would have to be secured by the new red country as with Caribbean ports for the new blue country. Or as with Alaska and Hawaii both new countries would have various separate entities. In any case it would have to be hashed out, maybe the blue country could pay for Montana or North Dakota etc. States would likely vote on which new country to join. Also likely there would be a large migration of people's to live in their preferred country.

But it's time. Everyone go their separate way and be happy.

Imagine conservatives waking up in a country where your Supreme Court was entirely made up of conservatives, and there were no labor unions or labor laws, companies controlled the work place with no OSHA, no work place safety or overtime/vacation/leave/fair treatment laws. Protesting would be outlawed. Abortion would be illegal in all states as federal law with no exclusion for rape or incest. Television and movies would be screened to 'proper' content and anything racier than Leave It To Beaver would be banned. All the great books of humanity would be banned as well, biblical teaching would be required in all schools and science and evolution would be outlawed and no court could overturn this.

Think of this utopia you seem so virulent to achieve. You could have it all.

Call or write your legislators, let's get this snowball rolling!

I seem so virulent to achieve? I live in Alaska. Agriculture is limited to a very short season. Indidigent peoples are traditionally nomadic hunter-gathers. Large portions of this state are still disconnected with no road connections. My home is supplied by my own power generation, as are many others. Government serves only specific populations, the rest are on there own.
Puhleese! I don't care who you fuck, whether you use abortion as birth control, or how you educate your spawn. I'm concerned about where my chow comes from and whether your government will somehow manage to make my acquisition of the food I need to survive, or the way I heat my home, will be criminalized.

'You' is a general you, re conservatives. Jesus H lighten up.

Just as it is now if you wind up in a country you aren't happy with you can move to one where you can be happy. If you can't move then you make the best of where you are. Is this any different than all of human history?

 

[IsaacNewton]

You obviously do not feel that Democrats feel the same way about Republicans, so any "discussion" would be pointless. Until you recognize that this "feeling" is a two way street, a game played by two, you will never find perspective.


I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat.

I recognize that it is both ways, but republicans just seem to voice it more, from what I have personally seen. I am a democrat, but I try to stay as neutral as possible and base my ideals on my own judgement.

I personally believe both sides are being "brainwashed," so to speak, to hate the other side.

Republicans are too intelligent to succumb to brainwashing tactics but one can purchase a Democrat Brainwashing Kit at any Walgreens.

​

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Where does this hatred come from? I've not said anything to offend anyone, but the fact that I have a different opinion immediately makes every republican hate me. As if my very existance were insulting to them.

It may be that you personally haven't, and its a poor reflection on the other side that they don't recognize that. Having said that, for the past 30+ years, Democrats (more specifically, the radicalized left wing known as progressives) have waged war against anyone who does not think exactly the same way they do. If you claim to be a person who values your own judgment, then sooner or later, it will run counter to theirs and you too will become a target. It is only a matter of time.

There was a time when the Republicans and many conservatives on the web forums would try to take a high road and not resort to straight insults until they had been insulted first. Now, no one even bothers. Its straight for the throat and fuck everything else.

I guess the answer is, the right is tired of being called names and they're going to fight back with ferocity.

Yeah 'the right' seems really hung up on words, which can't hurt you. Isn't this the very definition of snowflake. Someone who is devastated by an insult, or a word?

Conservative policy actually harms people, words or 'pc' don't do anything but bruise egos. Huge difference.

 

[Dragonlady]

Right now our political leadership is failing us in both parties. Maybe that changes, cuz if it doesn't I think hard times are a comin'. The path we're on right now is not sustainable, and the problems we have are going to worsen IMHO.

The positive things that Obama did for the economy are in full throttle now. Unemployment is now low enough that the competition for good workers is starting to drive wages up. But Trump's economic missteps are starting to take a toll.

The markets were initially buoyed at the thought of deregulation and tax cuts, but with the failure of the repeal and replace of the ACA, and tax reform falling behind schedule, with rumours that there is no plan yet.

Rumours of infighting amongst White House staff are further eroding market confidence, as is the Syrian attack. This appears to be a President who flies by the seat of his pants on every decision. Even his staff don't know what he's doing. This is not something which inspires confidence in the markets which count on peace and stability for businesses to thrive.

 

[oldsoul]

You obviously do not feel that Democrats feel the same way about Republicans, so any "discussion" would be pointless. Until you recognize that this "feeling" is a two way street, a game played by two, you will never find perspective.


I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat.

I recognize that it is both ways, but republicans just seem to voice it more, from what I have personally seen. I am a democrat, but I try to stay as neutral as possible and base my ideals on my own judgement.

I personally believe both sides are being "brainwashed," so to speak, to hate the other side.

Republicans are too intelligent to succumb to brainwashing tactics but one can purchase a Democrat Brainwashing Kit at any Walgreens.

​

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Where does this hatred come from? I've not said anything to offend anyone, but the fact that I have a different opinion immediately makes every republican hate me. As if my very existance were insulting to them.

It may be that you personally haven't, and its a poor reflection on the other side that they don't recognize that. Having said that, for the past 30+ years, Democrats (more specifically, the radicalized left wing known as progressives) have waged war against anyone who does not think exactly the same way they do. If you claim to be a person who values your own judgment, then sooner or later, it will run counter to theirs and you too will become a target. It is only a matter of time.

There was a time when the Republicans and many conservatives on the web forums would try to take a high road and not resort to straight insults until they had been insulted first. Now, no one even bothers. Its straight for the throat and fuck everything else.

I guess the answer is, the right is tired of being called names and they're going to fight back with ferocity.

Yeah 'the right' seems really hung up on words, which can't hurt you. Isn't this the very definitioin of snowflake. Someone who is devastated by an insult, or a word?

Conservative policy actually harms people, words or 'pc' don't do anything but bruise egos. Huge difference.

You cannot be serious.