CDZ Civil War?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Aquarius Luna, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. Dragonlady
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    Dragonlady Designing Woman

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    The Reagan tax cuts appeared to usher in a period of properity but only because the were accompanied by an immediate increase in military spending and a big arms build-up, all funded with borrowed money. When the deficit doubled, unemployment hit 6% and the stock market crashed, Reagan decided that maybe the tax cuts weren't such a good idea, and he raised taxes substantially.

    Look at the economic numbers.

    • Up uptil 1980, wages kept pace with inflation - afterward 1880 working class wages stagnated
    • Up until 1980, the working class had savings. After 1980, those savings started to erode
    • Similarly, middle class savings and wages started to erode after 1980
    • The transfer of the wealth to the top 5% began in 1980.
    In 1987 the stock market had it's biggest crash since the Great Depression - 6 years after Reagan cut taxes and deregulated businesses. 8 years after Bush cut taxes and deregulated businesses, there was an even bigger market crash.

    The second market crash was much harder on the US economy because of the steady erosion of savings which was the result of 30 years of wage stagnation. People cut back on luxuries, took second jobs. But the working class has exhausted its savings, and maxxed out its credit cards, and has been living paycheck to paycheck for quite some time. The middle class hasn't been thoroughly drained yet, but it's getting far too close.
     
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  2. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    How are those two things different in your mind? To me they seem not similar, but identical.
     
  3. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    One thing I'd add to the narrative above is that while government policies have had an impact on the lifestyles of the middle class, the middle class itself needs to bear the burden of its present situation.
    • Reagan, nor any other president, could have gotten elected were it not for the votes of the middle class.
    • The Congresses that legislated the policies that led to the events you described also were elected, and re-sent time and time again to the Capitol, primarily by the votes of the middle class.
    • Members of the middle class, and they alone, are responsible for failing, as a class, to exercise good financial judgment and overextending themselves and preferring to have "X" now, rather than have something less dear than X now and have money in the bank.
    • Members of the working class need to be held accountable for their insistence on doing "whatever it is they do for a living" and not having developed the skills needed to do something that is more remunerative. I'm not saying they shouldn't do whatever they prefer to do for a living. I'm saying that in choosing to do it, it's incumbent on them to recognize that work isn't highly compensated and accept that fact rather than complain that it isn't and blame others because it isn't and for their wage dissatisfaction/dismay. Nobody forces any American citizen to pursue a low wage career.
     
  4. Divine.Wind
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    Divine.Wind Platinum Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    IMHO, Working class meaning blue collar workers and "middle class" white collar workers. Nowadays, blue collar workers often make close to what white collar workers make, but that doesn't mean they caught up. It means the white collar worker's income has fallen as the Middle Class was eroded in our nation.
     
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  5. Dan Stubbs
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    Dan Stubbs forget....Hell Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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  6. Dan Stubbs
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    Dan Stubbs forget....Hell Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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  7. Dan Stubbs
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    Dan Stubbs forget....Hell Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    The Democrats have been in office and control of the country for the majority of the time. During this time spending on Progressive ideas and projects have been out of control and for reason that are just plain stupid. Taxes raised during this time are in record area. The have tried to limit the freedoms and right of the citizens and cause many people to lose jobs, houses and marrages. The have tried to take away the freedom of the internet freedom of speech. The list is very long. Therefore many conservatives have just had to stand up and say NO to the rape of the Consitution. I am not a republican but I vote "for the Man".
     
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  8. Dan Stubbs
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    Dan Stubbs forget....Hell Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    It seems to me that our reps in DC have beaten down the middle class to the point that they are not in the position of living pretty well off. It been done by Both parties and it up to us to pick them out of the lineup and vote them into retirement.
     
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  9. Dan Stubbs
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    Dan Stubbs forget....Hell Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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  10. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    Dan Stubb, what had you in mind to say in post 129? There's nothing showing there.
     

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