Civil Disobedience and the Individual Mandate

[whitehall]

The Supreme Court is intended to review Constitutional issues. FDR once tried to stack the Court with 20 appointed Justices when his New Deal socialism was floundering. The point is that if you hold a decision to find a "right to privacy" that authorized abortion in such high esteem you have to hold the affirmation that money is speech in equally high esteem.

 

[dblack]

The Supreme Court is intended to review Constitutional issues. FDR once tried to stack the Court with 20 appointed Justices when his New Deal socialism was floundering. The point is that if you hold a decision to find a "right to privacy" that authorized abortion in such high esteem you have to hold the affirmation that money is speech in equally high esteem.

Okie dokie

 

[HUGGY]

Call me a pessimist, but I have very little confidence that the Supreme Court will protect us. Furthermore, the seemingly inevitable 'alternative' offered up by the Republicans is perhaps the only politician who's done more for the cause of mandated insurance than Obama. I think we have to admit, the insurance companies have won this one.

The question is, how can we fight back? How can we, as disgruntled citizens, resist the corporatism and legal plunder that will be forced on us once PPACA 'has its way' with us? Seriously, I'm looking for ideas. I'm interested in forming some kind of grassroots, deliberate scofflaw movement dedicated to resisting the corporate/government takeover of health care.

I'm not sure if I read this somewhere or just heard it in a dream:

"Someone's voice cried out...How can we fight back?"

"As long as the machine keeps the pain short of the threshold of critical mass there is nothing that can be done to "fight back". Your only hope of winning is to be patient and wait for a miscalculation that sends more over the edge than they can keep track of."

"I like to keep in mind the thought that wack jobs like McVeigh and a pack of idiot sand niggas were successful. Not that I applaud anything they did or stood for...just that they exposed how innept the gate keepers really are. I would be real careful not to join any "clubs" or "associations". Rebellion is a tricky bitch ..one never knows how it goes... could be an Egypt..or it could go down badly as in Syria. There will be plenty of people to link up with when the shit goes down if indeed it does. Prepare yourself for mobility and combat. Save your hostility till you are safe to act on it. The machine's only defense will be to neutralise what they are already aware of. Once it's past a point of no return they will mostly devour themselves fighting over the scraps.."

"When order breaks down there will be no time for it, the machine, to react to the fluidity. All we can do...the survivors, is to make sure the heads of the snakes have been severed. Then hope that there is anything worth anything left to defend."

"I enjoyed the image of Guddafi..up againt that truck...head all bloody.. And that stupid fuck REALLY thought his people loved him and would all fight to the death to protect him. That will be your most potent weapon...their delusions."

 

[dblack]

Call me a pessimist, but I have very little confidence that the Supreme Court will protect us. Furthermore, the seemingly inevitable 'alternative' offered up by the Republicans is perhaps the only politician who's done more for the cause of mandated insurance than Obama. I think we have to admit, the insurance companies have won this one.

The question is, how can we fight back? How can we, as disgruntled citizens, resist the corporatism and legal plunder that will be forced on us once PPACA 'has its way' with us? Seriously, I'm looking for ideas. I'm interested in forming some kind of grassroots, deliberate scofflaw movement dedicated to resisting the corporate/government takeover of health care.

I'm not sure if I read this somewhere or just heard it in a dream:

"Someone's voice cried out...How can we fight back?"

"As long as the machine keeps the pain short of the threshold of critical mass there is nothing that can be done to "fight back". Your only hope of winning is to be patient and wait for a miscalculation that sends more over the edge than they can keep track of."

"I like to keep in mind the thought that wack jobs like McVeigh and a pack of idiot sand niggas were successful. Not that I applaud anything they did or stood for...just that they exposed how innept the gate keepers really are. I would be real careful not to join any "clubs" or "associations". Rebellion is a tricky bitch ..one never knows how it goes... could be an Egypt..or it could go down badly as in Syria. There will be plenty of people to link up with when the shit goes down if indeed it does. Prepare yourself for mobility and combat. Save your hostility till you are safe to act on it. The machine's only defense will be to neutralise what they are already aware of. Once it's past a point of no return they will mostly devour themselves fighting over the scraps.."

"When order breaks down there will be no time for it, the machine, to react to the fluidity. All we can do...the survivors, is to make sure the heads of the snakes have been severed. Then hope that there is anything worth anything left to defend."

"I enjoyed the image of Guddafi..up againt that truck...head all bloody.. And that stupid fuck REALLY thought his people loved him and would all fight to the death to protect him. That will be your most potent weapon...their delusions."

 

[Greenbeard]

Drop your current insurance and continue to live your life. Problem solved.

Or, better yet, keep your current insurance and live your life. Problem solved.

Touché!

 

[editec]

If you're seeking an organization that opposes the Obamacare concept, find organizations that are still seeking SINGLE PAYER HC.

That is pretty much the only viable alternative to OBAMACARE or doing nothing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Call me a pessimist, but I have very little confidence that the Supreme Court will protect us. Furthermore, the seemingly inevitable 'alternative' offered up by the Republicans is perhaps the only politician who's done more for the cause of mandated insurance than Obama. I think we have to admit, the insurance companies have won this one.

The question is, how can we fight back? How can we, as disgruntled citizens, resist the corporatism and legal plunder that will be forced on us once PPACA 'has its way' with us? Seriously, I'm looking for ideas. I'm interested in forming some kind of grassroots, deliberate scofflaw movement dedicated to resisting the corporate/government takeover of health care.

Here's what I don't get. You pay taxes, right? And some of those taxes go to Medicare. Isn't the Medicare part of the payroll tax just a mandated health insurance premium? What's the difference?

The difference is that the insurance premiums we will have to pay are NOT taxes.

If the fucking government wants to mandate that we all pay for insurance then the only legal way that can be done is to make it a tax.

 

[Seawytch]

70% of Americans wanted a Public Option. Keep fighting for that.

Small steps

 

[dblack]

If you're seeking an organization that opposes the Obamacare concept, find organizations that are still seeking SINGLE PAYER HC.

That is pretty much the only viable alternative to OBAMACARE or doing nothing.

70% of Americans wanted a Public Option. Keep fighting for that.

Small steps

I don't want single payer either. Insurance is the problem with health care, not the solution. I want the freedom to decide for myself how to deal with my health care. I want the state to butt out and stop forcing solutions on those of us who don't want their "help".

 

[Paulie]

You fight back by making this work instead of sending politicians to sabotage it and leave us with an empty hole full of wreckage where we had an unsatisfactory plan but a plan all the same.

uh... what?

I'm not interesting in lining up for an insurance industry fleecing. Is that what you're suggesting?

I mean it, just what do you think will take it's place if these maniac politicians manage to kill health reform? Nothing but a horrible round of insurance company profiteering to teach us to never make the mistake of screwing with their health care racket again.

Ironically, healthcare mandates aid the profiteering by increasing revenue streams from people who otherwise wouldn't have necessarily even been buying any.

 

[Cuyo]

uh... what?

I'm not interesting in lining up for an insurance industry fleecing. Is that what you're suggesting?

I mean it, just what do you think will take it's place if these maniac politicians manage to kill health reform? Nothing but a horrible round of insurance company profiteering to teach us to never make the mistake of screwing with their health care racket again.

The insurance companies were for Obamacare. Why? Because the Federal Government will force people to buy insurance when this bill is in full force. Which is conveniently after the election.

The insurance companies you hate support a bill you love that will make them rich and screw the rest of us and you're still happy with the bill. Does that reaction make sense to anyone else?

Sure would've been a lot better with a public option. Whatever happened to that idea?

 

[Seawytch]

If you're seeking an organization that opposes the Obamacare concept, find organizations that are still seeking SINGLE PAYER HC.

That is pretty much the only viable alternative to OBAMACARE or doing nothing.

70% of Americans wanted a Public Option. Keep fighting for that.

Small steps

I don't want single payer either. Insurance is the problem with health care, not the solution. I want the freedom to decide for myself how to deal with my health care. I want the state to butt out and stop forcing solutions on those of us who don't want their "help".

A public option isn't single payer.

 

[dblack]

Looks like maybe it's a good time to give this thread a bump!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Call me a pessimist, but I have very little confidence that the Supreme Court will protect us. Furthermore, the seemingly inevitable 'alternative' offered up by the Republicans is perhaps the only politician who's done more for the cause of mandated insurance than Obama. I think we have to admit, the insurance companies have won this one.

The question is, how can we fight back? How can we, as disgruntled citizens, resist the corporatism and legal plunder that will be forced on us once PPACA 'has its way' with us? Seriously, I'm looking for ideas. I'm interested in forming some kind of grassroots, deliberate scofflaw movement dedicated to resisting the corporate/government takeover of health care.

I'm going to say it's against my religion to buy government approved health insurance.

 

[Darkwind]

There are a few ways to oppose it off the top of my head:

1) Refuse to buy the insurance they are requiring to do in protest.
2) Refuse to pay taxes

Both of which can be done non-violently. Of course, when you are doing non-cooperation, you have to accept the penalties. You win people over to support your point through self-suffering. You show them what oppressive government does to people.

Personally, I think number 1 would be more effective.

Spread the word as far and wide as you can.

Everyone should study their tax returns for the past 10 years. Determine precisely how much your tax liability will be for the coming year and then adjust your withholding from payroll accordingly.

Be sure that you are accurate. When you file taxes, you should have no more of a return than 1 to 5 dollars. If you end up having to pay a few bucks, so much the better.

They plan on enforcing your obedience through your tax return. They will confiscate any money you have coming back if you do not meet their demands.

Give them nothing to confiscate.

A war may be coming if things don't go well in the next few years. Be prepared for it. Begin hording food while the prices are still low and they cannot yet force you to eat their menu (for the good of everyone else, of course). Pay particular attention to first aid supplies and kits. When this program gets into full gear, they will register you into their system the moment you have to use it and then you will be screwed.

Fly low, under the radar and try to pay cash for as many things as you can. Make purchases off the tax collection if you can. Barter for exchange of services for goods to keep them from collecting even more money.

Educate yourself in this law, know every nook and loophole, be better versed in this law than those who wrote it.

Your freedom has ended, but that does not mean you cannot fight back.