Civil Disobedience and Terry Schaivo

[Bullypulpit]

Is giving Mrs Schiavo food and water being extraordinary in the area of life support?

Is she living in a hellish state?

Living contracted in a semi-fetal position, with nothing more than reflexive responses to the world around would, I believe, constitute "living in a hellish state". And any means which artificially prolongs a life beyond what would otherwise be possible are considered "extraordinary means".

 

[Bullypulpit]

One is reminded today of the Nazi extermination of mentally ill people and the T4 program. Today we have the liberal government in Florida ruling for the death of a mentally ill person without any solid proof that she would want to die, just the word of her suspect husband while her parents, siblings, and the rest of her family are screaming for her life. There are doctors who think she can improve. Instead of being placed in a gas chamber by the government she is being forced to dehydrate and starve.

Are not the liberal bioethicists terrorizing the disabled of our society? Who is going to be next? And for what flimsy reason? Does this not resemble Adolf Hiter who also proclaimed that the disabled are "better off dead"? Are the liberals succeeding in fostering Nazism in our country?

Why do you keep bring up comparisons to Nazis when what we are discussing is death with dignity? Thanks to the family of Mrs. Schiavo and the politicians, though, all semblance of dignity has been stripped, not only from her death, but also from her life.

You are the one sounding like a some sort of statist, wanting control over every aspect of one's life...including those final decisions which politicians have no business involving themselves in. You want government out of peoples lives except when the decisions they make regarding their lives fail meet your standards of ideological purity. You hypocrite.

 

[dilloduck]

Living contracted in a semi-fetal position, with nothing more than reflexive responses to the world around would, I believe, constitute "living in a hellish state". And any means which artificially prolongs a life beyond what would otherwise be possible are considered "extraordinary means".

really?----and what is actually going on in her mind Dr. Bully?

 

[Avatar4321]

Why do you keep bring up comparisons to Nazis when what we are discussing is death with dignity? Thanks to the family of Mrs. Schiavo and the politicians, though, all semblance of dignity has been stripped, not only from her death, but also from her life.

You are the one sounding like a some sort of statist, wanting control over every aspect of one's life...including those final decisions which politicians have no business involving themselves in. You want government out of peoples lives except when the decisions they make regarding their lives fail meet your standards of ideological purity. You hypocrite.

Holy crap you think starving someone to death is dying with dignity?

The government has a responsibility to protect our citizens life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. This is a life and death situation and hence the government has every reason to be involved.

I still cant get over the fact that you want to let this woman starve to death and think we are the ones who arent compassionate.

 

[Bullypulpit]

really?----and what is actually going on in her mind Dr. Bully?

Given the damage she suffered, probably little or nothing.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Holy crap you think starving someone to death is dying with dignity?

The government has a responsibility to protect our citizens life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. This is a life and death situation and hence the government has every reason to be involved.

I still cant get over the fact that you want to let this woman starve to death and think we are the ones who arent compassionate.

She is not "starving to death". She is simply doing what she would have done in the absence of any other intervention...she is dying. Something which we all do, or hadn't you figured that one out yet?

 

[dilloduck]

Given the damage she suffered, probably little or nothing.

probably????? gotta love that assessment !!

 

[Avatar4321]

I would accept your point if you actually knew anything about human suffering, but your posts on this topic show that you do indeed lack any such understanding.

Yes of course Bully. Disagreeing with you makes me an ignorant baffoon. What I understand is that life is worth fighting for. I know that we need to protect those who cannot protect themselves. It's about time we end this culture of death.

 

[Avatar4321]

Given the damage she suffered, probably little or nothing.

she cant really be suffering by staying alive then can she?

 

[SmarterThanYou]

she cant really be suffering by staying alive then can she?

before her collapse she may have thought that living like her current condition would be suffering. should we adopt the idea that she didn't really mean it, i mean she's obviously not suffering now, she wouldn't know it anyway.

are you really suggesting keeping alive a person with maybe 20% brain activitiy and no outlook for a better life? especially when its been decided that she didn't want to live that way?

 

[Nienna]

How many of you would step up and pay the tab to keep this woman alive, maybe against her will?

The operative word is "maybe." If you don't know, you have to assume she would want to live.

Life and death are not our decisions to make. This woman is not merely a body kept pulsing by machines. The only "extra" things she needs are food and water, if you consider that to be extra. She can react to people and attempt to communicate. Just because someone has been rendered helpless doesn't mean they are worthless.

 

[Nienna]

Living contracted in a semi-fetal position, with nothing more than reflexive responses to the world around would, I believe, constitute "living in a hellish state". And any means which artificially prolongs a life beyond what would otherwise be possible are considered "extraordinary means".

She has more than reflexive responses to the world around. A lawyer for her parents (who actually went and saw her, unlike Judge Greer) testified on radio that Terri focused her eyes on people, and was particularly responsive to her mother. She smiled at her mother and attempted to vocally repeat the words when her mother said "IIII Loooove Yoooou."

As for food and water being "extraordinary means," anyone can be starved or dehydrated to death, regardless of their state of health. Don't eat breakfast this morning, Bully. Your life will be prolonged beyond what would otherwise be possible. :

 

[Bullypulpit]

She has more than reflexive responses to the world around. A lawyer for her parents (who actually went and saw her, unlike Judge Greer) testified on radio that Terri focused her eyes on people, and was particularly responsive to her mother. She smiled at her mother and attempted to vocally repeat the words when her mother said "IIII Loooove Yoooou."

As for food and water being "extraordinary means," anyone can be starved or dehydrated to death, regardless of their state of health. Don't eat breakfast this morning, Bully. Your life will be prolonged beyond what would otherwise be possible. :

Since when is a lawyer a neurologist?

 

[Bullypulpit]

she cant really be suffering by staying alive then can she?

Lets not forget the suffering of her family and loved ones. They're suffering as well.

 

[Bullypulpit]

probably????? gotta love that assessment !!

That's what alot of medicine boils down to old son.

 

[dilloduck]

Lets not forget the suffering of her family and loved ones. They're suffering as well.

only because he ex wants her killed and is denying her treatment

 

[dilloduck]

That's what alot of medicine boils down to old son.

this isn't about medicine ---it's about the law and morality

 

[SmarterThanYou]

only because he ex wants her killed and is denying her treatment

so you don't believe the claim that terri didn't want to live like this?

 

[dilloduck]

so you don't believe the claim that terri didn't want to live like this?

If she were allowed access to speech therapy she could tell us herself--denying her this right is denying her freedom of speech

 

[SmarterThanYou]

If she were allowed access to speech therapy she could tell us herself--denying her this right is denying her freedom of speech

we have the word of her spouse, i know you don't like him for his 'unworthiness' of being a husband, and the courts have dictated the same. she was denied nothing except the continued torture of therapies that weren't helping at the behest of her parents.