Civil Disobedience and Terry Schaivo

[5stringJeff]

When is it morally right to disobey judicial/governmental authority? Is Terry Schaivo's case one where the right ot life overrules the will of a local court?

http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/001240.html

 

[ScreamingEagle]

When is it morally right to disobey judicial/governmental authority? Is Terry Schaivo's case one where the right ot life overrules the will of a local court?

http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/001240.html

Well, you can bet the left wing animal rights activists would be frothing at the bit and marching in the streets if this were a dog being deliberately dehydrated and starved to death.

And where is the Left today? Why isn't the Left protesting this inhumane method of death? They consider panties over the head as torture...the left wing news media screams about it for months...the Left marches in the streets against what they call the killing of innocent life....why don't we hear from them now on this issue?

 

[Mr. P]

How many of you would step up and pay the tab to keep this woman alive, maybe against her will?

 

[Bonnie]

How many of you would step up and pay the tab to keep this woman alive, maybe against her will?

The court has already awarded hundreds of thousand of dollars for her rehabilitation to which the husband has used for his lawyers to have her starved to death. If he would just divorce her, the money goes to her care, there is about 700,000 left. Id say that buys a lot fo rehabilitation.

 

[Gem]

None of us have to, Mr. P...her parents have volunteered to take responsibilty and legal guardianship of Terri.

As to whether or not she would want to live like this...unfortunately, this case is a sterling example of why having your wishes in writing is so desperately important.

As you ask everyone if they are comfortable keeping someone alive against their wishes...ask yourself if you are comfortable starving to death a woman who wants to be given every chance to live.

No one has stated that they are not concerned about the right decision to make...no one has stated that they know for sure whether or not Terri would want to live or die...most people are simply stating that when we are talking about legally sanctioned death by dehydration and starvation of a living being... we might want to be a bit more sure than the word of a husband surrounded by suspicious circumstances.

 

[Bonnie]

Well, you can bet the left wing animal rights activists would be frothing at the bit and marching in the streets if this were a dog being deliberately dehydrated and starved to death.

And where is the Left today? Why isn't the Left protesting this inhumane method of death? They consider panties over the head as torture...the left wing news media screams about it for months...the Left marches in the streets against what they call the killing of innocent life....why don't we hear from them now on this issue?

Tried to ding you again, but alas I must spread the love around. Anyway Great points!!

 

[SmarterThanYou]

Well, you can bet the left wing animal rights activists would be frothing at the bit and marching in the streets if this were a dog being deliberately dehydrated and starved to death.

And where is the Left today? Why isn't the Left protesting this inhumane method of death? They consider panties over the head as torture...the left wing news media screams about it for months...the Left marches in the streets against what they call the killing of innocent life....why don't we hear from them now on this issue?

The left TRIED to make this easier. We were opposed by 'right to life' people who said assisted suicide was immoral and then made a law against it.

 

[5stringJeff]

As you ask everyone if they are comfortable keeping someone alive against their wishes...ask yourself if you are comfortable starving to death a woman who wants to be given every chance to live.

And that is the crux of it. Are we (as a society) really making the decision to starve a woman because her husband insists on refusing to attempt to rehabilitate her? These are the reasons that we conservatives talk so much about the sanctity of life - because people make decisions like this that hold like in contempt.

 

[Mr. P]

....
As you ask everyone if they are comfortable keeping someone alive against their wishes...ask yourself if you are comfortable starving to death a woman who wants to be given every chance to live.

...

Here's what I ask myself..with all the hearings and all the court decisions, all the investigations and medical tests, all the years gone by, , is it my business to interfere? I don't think so.

 

[Gem]

gop_jeff,

I see where you are coming from...however, if Terri Shiavo had had a living will that stated that she didn't want to live like this I would have no qualms about her assisted suicide.


mr. p.,

I find the more relevant question to be...were all the court procedings and rulings done with complete information and consideration of the fact. After reviewing some of the documents it seems that much was left out...vital tests, flawed witnesses.

I have no qualms with saying that Terri Shiavo's life and/or death is none of my business...but if we rule that we can medically diagnose someone as PVS without doing all of the necessary tests...or that we can make that determination given testimony from a doctor with an obvious bias towards diagnosing PVS, even cases where patients can feed themselves, interact with others, and move around of their own free will...then it IS my business because any one of my family could end up in similar circumstances.

It is not my place to state that Terri Shiavo must be forced to live any more than it is your place to state that Terri Shiavo must be forced to starve to death. Hence why we must look past emotions such as, "I sure as hell wouldn't want to live like that." or "What kind of husband would want to starve his wife to death." And look at the purely legal standpoint of the case...Was she diagnosed properly? Were all the appropriate steps taken to restore her to as much of a life as she could have? Was she deliberately neglected in order to make her appear more PVS that she is? Are the witnesses who testify that she would not want to live like that credible? Is the doctor who diagnosed her as PVS credible? Etc.

If, after all of that is taken into consideration (and I do not feel at this time it has been) and they rule that Terri Shiavo would have wanted to be starved to death, then I would support that decision...but not before. I think that as a society we have to be VERY hesitant to starve someone to death when we do not have their written or verbal confirmation that that is what they truly want.

 

[SmarterThanYou]

isn't it interesting that those who are supporting keeping terri alive no matter what state she's in aren't living in that state.

 

[Eightball]

When in doubt, shouldn't we error on the side of life?

And there is doubt. It's only her husband's word that says she wanted to die, nothing in writing.

Is she really vegetative.......?

 

[ReillyT]

When in doubt, shouldn't we error on the side of life?

And there is doubt. It's only her husband's word that says she wanted to die, nothing in writing.

Is she really vegetative.......?

It has been discussed on other threads, but no, it is not just her husband's word and it is not just the conclusion of one doctor that she cannot be rehabilitated.

The court documents are at: http://www.abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

There were three witnesses who testified these were her wishes. There were found more credible than any opposing witnesses.

Two doctors, her attending physician and a court appointed expert, originally determined she could not recover. Then following an appeal on just this issue, five expert doctors examined her and the court determined, by the preponderance of the evidence after evaluating their testimony and after watching video of Terri, that she could not be rehabilitated.

 

[Eightball]

It has been discussed on other threads, but no, it is not just her husband's word and it is not just the conclusion of one doctor that she cannot be rehabilitated.

The court documents are at: http://www.abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

There were three witnesses who testified these were her wishes. There were found more credible than any opposing witnesses.

Two doctors, her attending physician and a court appointed expert, originally determined she could not recover. Then following an appeal on just this issue, five expert doctors examined her and the court determined, by the preponderance of the evidence after evaluating their testimony and after watching video of Terri, that she could not be rehabilitated.

That's a great defense. Now just look at the video's when her parents and family show up. She tries to sit up in bed, and responds to them........not like a slug, but like a human being. I understand that she doesn't respond that way with her husband...........yeah the one with the girl friend........that just needs to sign some divorce papers, and let Terry's parents care for her........Yeah that nice ethical guy.......

Yeah, once years ago, I believed abortion was rational, then I became a sane human being..........and realized that I was temporarily insane back then.

Rational thinking without compassion is scarey.

Error on the side of life!

 

[5stringJeff]

gop_jeff,

I see where you are coming from...however, if Terri Shiavo had had a living will that stated that she didn't want to live like this I would have no qualms about her assisted suicide.

I agree... if she had a living will this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[5stringJeff]

Error on the side of life![/B]

I agree wholeheartedly... err on the side of life, because if the judge's orders are carried out, and they are wrong, there is no recompense. If the judge's orders are disobeyed, and she is later proven to be unrehabilitatable, then at least we know that everything possible has been done. But there are dozens of neurologists (ReillyT) whose expert opinion is that Terry is rehabilitatable, and the effort has not been made.

 

[SmarterThanYou]

I agree... if she had a living will this wouldn't be an issue.

I disagree. This stands completely in the way of spousal responsibility.

 

[theim]

The left TRIED to make this easier. We were opposed by 'right to life' people who said assisted suicide was immoral and then made a law against it.

And Hitler would have solved the Jewish problem except for those damn "right to life people"

 

[Eightball]

They've done it...........Tubes pulled..!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...=/ap/20050318/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman

Let the slow, agonizing murder of Terry begin.

 

[SmarterThanYou]

And Hitler would have solved the Jewish problem except for those damn "right to life people"

'godwins law'......you lose.