City Wildlife: What Should be Done?

[Madeline]

My housing association is just crawling with deer, and it is inside the city limits of Cleveland. An area suburb considered -- then abandoned -- a plan to permit hunting with bows and arrows (I'm not clear on why this is thought to be superior; can't you kill a person with any weapon that would kill a deer?).

When wildlife encroaches on urban areas, what is the ethical response? These animals are too big to trap and relocate.

 

[Mini 14]

Bowhunting is the best answer.

Poison will render the meat useless.

If they try to trap them, they'll have to put most of them down anyway. Trapping deer never goes well, unless you're right there to release or gut them when they become trapped.

Bow is where it should wind up, with the meat going to shelters. It is the safest, most effective solution in that scenario.

I'm assuming the homeowners are more concerned with their lawns than they are the deer, and aren't willing to just let the deer be deer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Venison is good eating.

A couple deer butchered and frozen will feed a family for a long time. The meat is as natural as you can get; no hormones, no antibiotics and naturally low in fat.

 

[KissMy]

Eat Them!!!!!!!!

They are very high protein & low fat.

If you cant eat them yourself then donate them to food pantries & shelters.

 

[Madeline]

Bowhunting is the best answer.

Poison will render the meat useless.

If they try to trap them, they'll have to put most of them down anyway. Trapping deer never goes well, unless you're right there to release or gut them when they become trapped.

Bow is where it should wind up, with the meat going to shelters. It is the safest, most effective solution in that scenario.

I'm assuming the homeowners are more concerned with their lawns than they are the deer, and aren't willing to just let the deer be deer.

The deer do quite a bit of damage to landscaping, yes, but they are traffic hazards and can be aggressive to humans on foot.

Why is hunting them with bows more ethical than shooting them?

 

[Mini 14]

Bowhunting is the best answer.

Poison will render the meat useless.

If they try to trap them, they'll have to put most of them down anyway. Trapping deer never goes well, unless you're right there to release or gut them when they become trapped.

Bow is where it should wind up, with the meat going to shelters. It is the safest, most effective solution in that scenario.

I'm assuming the homeowners are more concerned with their lawns than they are the deer, and aren't willing to just let the deer be deer.

The deer do quite a bit of damage to landscaping, yes, but they are traffic hazards and can be aggressive to humans on foot.

Why is hunting them with bows more ethical than shooting them?

It isn't more (or less) ethical, but it is a lot safer in a residential area. Arrows don't travel as far as bullets.

 

[Big Black Dog]

A trained sharpshooter could easily shoot and kill the deer. Also, the deer that have been killed could be processed and given to the homeless shelters for food. It would be a win-win for everybody.

 

[onecut39]

My housing association is just crawling with deer, and it is inside the city limits of Cleveland. An area suburb considered -- then abandoned -- a plan to permit hunting with bows and arrows (I'm not clear on why this is thought to be superior; can't you kill a person with any weapon that would kill a deer?).

When wildlife encroaches on urban areas, what is the ethical response? These animals are too big to trap and relocate.

Here in Minneapolis we have the same problem. Everything from Canada geese to black bear to an occasional cougar. We have a lot of coyotes but they seem to be elusive and easily mistaken for dogs.

The geese we trap and move. I think they should just be killed and used for food. The black bear we tranquilize and move. The cougar is seldom caught

For deer we have regular bow and arrow hunts in our larger parks. These hunts are restricted to early morning hours, usually before the parks are open to the public. Signs are posted and folks are warned to stick to the paths.

These are urban areas and bullets travel way too far to be used safely.

 

[westwall]

I concur with what Mini-14 said. Bowhunters typically close to within 10 yards of their prey and the kill is accomplished with no noise, and the risk of a bullet pasing through the animal and hitting someone on the other side is nearly eliminated. Arrows tend to suffer some form of damage that prevents them from over-penetrating which is a huge danger with rifle projectiles. Shotguns loaded with buckshot can be used as well, but even there it is possible for a hole in the pattern to open up or for a "flyer" to zip off in an unanticipated direction and they would be lethal out to 100 yards or so.

 

[Madeline]

People here seem violently opposed to thinning deer inside an urban area. You can shoot a kid in Cleveland and not make the news, but God help you if you shoot a deer.

Makes no sense to me.

 

[Kaiser Soze]

A trained sharpshooter could easily shoot and kill the deer. Also, the deer that have been killed could be processed and given to the homeless shelters for food. It would be a win-win for everybody.

Except the deer.

 

[syrenn]

They should be killed and eaten. We have coyotes, go figure that .

 

[Zoom-boing]

I don't live too far from Valley Forge. They're over run with deer but the tree huggers are all 'oh noez, you can't hunt them and keeel them. Evil, evil hunters'.

Their suggestion? Stock the area with deer's natural hunters . . . coyotes (psst, deer aren't coyotes first choice but hey, that's of no importance). Think I'm kidding?

Animal group: Use coyotes to solve deer problem | 6abc.com

Ah and what, prey tell, are we going to do when the coyote population gets out of control? Shoot them? 'oh noez, you can't hunt them and keeel them. Evil, evil hunters'.

One guy wants to relocate them to the Poconos . . . because he lives in the Poconos and he could then hunt the deer there. So go to all the trouble and expense to trap the deer, transport the deer to the Poconos, release the deer, all so you can hunt in your own back yard?

Fucking loony morons, even last one of them.

Have a mass hunting and take out half the deer population. Butcher the meat and give it to shelters. Problem solved.

 

[syrenn]

I don't live too far from Valley Forge. They're over run with deer but the tree huggers are all 'oh noez, you can't hunt them and keeel them. Evil, evil hunters'.

Their suggestion? Stock the area with deer's natural hunters . . . coyotes (psst, deer aren't coyotes first choice but hey, that's of no importance). Think I'm kidding?

Animal group: Use coyotes to solve deer problem | 6abc.com

Ah and what, prey tell, are we going to do when the coyote population gets out of control? Shoot them? 'oh noez, you can't hunt them and keeel them. Evil, evil hunters'.

One guy wants to relocate them to the Poconos . . . because he lives in the Poconos and he could then hunt the deer there. So go to all the trouble and expense to trap the deer, transport the deer to the Poconos, release the deer, all so you can hunt in your own back yard?

Fucking loony morons, even last one of them.

Have a mass hunting and take out half the deer population. Butcher the meat and give it to shelters. Problem solved.

Right, so fix one problem with a worse one. Deer are pests. Coyotes are just flat dangerous.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I don't live too far from Valley Forge. They're over run with deer but the tree huggers are all 'oh noez, you can't hunt them and keeel them. Evil, evil hunters'.

Their suggestion? Stock the area with deer's natural hunters . . . coyotes (psst, deer aren't coyotes first choice but hey, that's of no importance). Think I'm kidding?

Animal group: Use coyotes to solve deer problem | 6abc.com

Ah and what, prey tell, are we going to do when the coyote population gets out of control? Shoot them? 'oh noez, you can't hunt them and keeel them. Evil, evil hunters'.

One guy wants to relocate them to the Poconos . . . because he lives in the Poconos and he could then hunt the deer there. So go to all the trouble and expense to trap the deer, transport the deer to the Poconos, release the deer, all so you can hunt in your own back yard?

Fucking loony morons, even last one of them.

Have a mass hunting and take out half the deer population. Butcher the meat and give it to shelters. Problem solved.

Right, so fix one problem with a worse one. Deer are pests. Coyotes are just flat dangerous.

The deer are more than just pests, they run out into the roads and get hit by cars, injuring and killing people. The hubs has nailed two of them. Something has to be done about them, but coyotes ain't it.

And the coyote solution is just shit-for-brain stupid.

From the wiki link:

Fruits and vegetables are a significant part of the coyote's diet in the autumn and winter months. Part of the coyote's success as a species is its dietary adaptability. As such, coyotes have been known to eat human rubbish and domestic pets. They catch cats and dogs when they come too close to the pack. Urban populations of coyotes have been known to actively hunt cats, and to leap shorter fences to take small dogs. In particularly bold urban packs, coyotes have also been reported to shadow human joggers or larger dogs, and even to take small dogs while the dog is still on a leash. However, this behavior is often reported when normal urban prey, such as rabbits, have become scarce. Yet, confirmed reports of coyotes killing a human have been documented.

Despite being extensively hunted, the coyote is one of the few medium-to-large-sized animals that has enlarged its range since human encroachment began.

But they are cute

ETA: They did ok a culling of the herd (it was posted for over a year because the coyote loons filed an injunction) with an aim to reduce the deer population by 80%. They are also using birth control between Nov and March on the deer.

 

[8236]

My forest is just crawling with humans, and they are outside the city limits of Cleveland. An area suburb considered -- then abandoned -- a plan to permit hunting with bows and arrows (I'm not clear on why this is thought to be superior; can't you kill a deer with any weapon that would kill a person?).

When humans encroach on previously uninhabited continents, what is the ethical response? These animals are too big to trap and relocate.

 

[Madeline]

I don't live too far from Valley Forge. They're over run with deer but the tree huggers are all 'oh noez, you can't hunt them and keeel them. Evil, evil hunters'.

Their suggestion? Stock the area with deer's natural hunters . . . coyotes (psst, deer aren't coyotes first choice but hey, that's of no importance). Think I'm kidding?

Animal group: Use coyotes to solve deer problem | 6abc.com

Ah and what, prey tell, are we going to do when the coyote population gets out of control? Shoot them? 'oh noez, you can't hunt them and keeel them. Evil, evil hunters'.

One guy wants to relocate them to the Poconos . . . because he lives in the Poconos and he could then hunt the deer there. So go to all the trouble and expense to trap the deer, transport the deer to the Poconos, release the deer, all so you can hunt in your own back yard?

Fucking loony morons, even last one of them.

Have a mass hunting and take out half the deer population. Butcher the meat and give it to shelters. Problem solved.

Right, so fix one problem with a worse one. Deer are pests. Coyotes are just flat dangerous.

The deer are more than just pests, they run out into the roads and get hit by cars, injuring and killing people. The hubs has nailed two of them. Something has to be done about them, but coyotes ain't it.

And the coyote solution is just shit-for-brain stupid.

From the wiki link:

Fruits and vegetables are a significant part of the coyote's diet in the autumn and winter months. Part of the coyote's success as a species is its dietary adaptability. As such, coyotes have been known to eat human rubbish and domestic pets. They catch cats and dogs when they come too close to the pack. Urban populations of coyotes have been known to actively hunt cats, and to leap shorter fences to take small dogs. In particularly bold urban packs, coyotes have also been reported to shadow human joggers or larger dogs, and even to take small dogs while the dog is still on a leash. However, this behavior is often reported when normal urban prey, such as rabbits, have become scarce. Yet, confirmed reports of coyotes killing a human have been documented.

Despite being extensively hunted, the coyote is one of the few medium-to-large-sized animals that has enlarged its range since human encroachment began.

But they are cute

ETA: They did ok a culling of the herd (it was posted for over a year because the coyote loons filed an injunction) with an aim to reduce the deer population by 80%. They are also using birth control between Nov and March on the deer.

The animals rights folks drive me bat shit, Zoom boing. How such morons ever got a voice in the public's ear mystifies me completely.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I recall reading/hearing somewhere that deer kill more people in our country than all other animals combined - including sharks, bears, wolves, coyotes, and snakes. Can anyone verify this?

 

[Madeline]

I recall reading/hearing somewhere that deer kill more people in our country than all other animals combined - including sharks, bears, wolves, coyotes, and snakes. Can anyone verify this?

Not off the top of my head, Wry, but if you include fatal car crashes I have no doubt it's true.

 

[Ernie S.]

Bowhunting is the best answer.

Poison will render the meat useless.

If they try to trap them, they'll have to put most of them down anyway. Trapping deer never goes well, unless you're right there to release or gut them when they become trapped.

Bow is where it should wind up, with the meat going to shelters. It is the safest, most effective solution in that scenario.

I'm assuming the homeowners are more concerned with their lawns than they are the deer, and aren't willing to just let the deer be deer.

The deer do quite a bit of damage to landscaping, yes, but they are traffic hazards and can be aggressive to humans on foot.

Why is hunting them with bows more ethical than shooting them?

It's not an ethical question. It's about risk to people in an urban setting. If an arrow misses it's target, it falls harmlessly to the ground in a hundred yards or so. A bullet from a high powered rifle can penetrate the wall of a home a half mile away and still kill a person.
I would turn loose some experienced hunters with shotguns loaded with rifled slugs. Clean kill at up to 80 yards or so and pretty harmless after 200 yards.
Bow and arrow, while safer for people in populated areas is an inefficient method of killing deer. Probably 50% of deer hit with arrows don't die quickly, many succumbing to infections days or weeks later.
From a standpoint of a warped sense of sportsmanship, a deer does stand a better chance against a hunter armed with a bow, but my hunting ethic demands a clean kill so that the animal suffers as little as possible.
About 15 years ago I was forced to shoot a once magnificent buck that had probably lost 1/3 of it's body weight due to an arrow that was through it's esophagus. The wound was badly infected and the carcass was useless. Bow season had been over for 2 weeks at that point so the poor animal hadn't been able to eat for maybe 2 to 4 weeks. That left a lasting impression on me and a contempt for bow hunters.