Circling the Drain

[Pogo]

Ah the Coriolis Effect --- one wonders if when the time comes, Jaïr Bolsonaro's poll numbers will circle the opposite way.... but we're getting ahead of ourselves......

Doom-all Rump's approval/disapproval ratings, which have been remarkably consistent for two years as hovering around 40% approve/50+% disapprove, are, to quote the Monty Python castle owner, sinking into the swamp.

Fivethirtyeight.com has been running a continuous analysis of all polls available for the duration, which can be seen here for latest updates. The aggregate graph on top (not postable here) says approval is still at 40% while disapproval is up to 55.2%, indicating disapproval is rising.

Scroll down on the same page and you can see several graphs comparing Rump to past POTUSes over the exact same time period of their presidencies (currently at 729 days). Rump is the solid green line (if Approval is selected) or solid red line (if disapproval is selected), offering a ready comparison with each POTUS at any point in time.

Perusing those graphs it becomes clear that Rump's disapproval is worse than George W. Bush's was at the time of the 2008 economic collapse; worse than Bill Clinton's was at the time of his impeachment hearings; worse than George H.W. Bush's was at the time he reneged on 'no new taxes'; worse than Reagan's was at the time of Iran Contra; worse than Jimmy Carter's was at any point of the Iran hostages or the energy crisis; worse than Gerald Ford's was during his pardon of Richard Nixon and "whip inflation now"; worse than Richard Nixon's was even at the point where he resigned; and worse than LBJ's was at any point of prosecuting the Vietnam war. Indeed Rump's disapproval mark has been worse than any POTUS listed at any point at all.

Ford, Carter and the Bushes' legacies got defeated handily; Nixon resigned in disgrace; and LBJ was so continually and bitterly protested that he didn't even run for re-election.

And Rump has so far topped them all.

"I will be the greatest despised President that god ever created. I tell you that".

It just shows how skewed the rhetoric on this board is compared to the real world. Doesn't it.

 

[Sunni Man]

Our wonderful Pres. Trump is the best thing to happen to this country in decades.

He deserves to be praised and adored by all citizens for his unselfish service and dedication to the nation.

Only miscreants and malcontents will deny this fact. ....

 

[Pogo]

^^

 

[mudwhistle]

Ah the Coriolis Effect --- one wonders if when the time comes, Jaïr Bolsonaro's poll numbers will circle the opposite way.... but we're getting ahead of ourselves......

Doom-all Rump's approval/disapproval ratings, which have been remarkably consistent for two years as hovering around 40% approve/50+% disapprove, are, to quote the Monty Python castle owner, sinking into the swamp.

Fivethirtyeight.com has been running a continuous analysis of all polls available for the duration, which can be seen here for latest updates. The aggregate graph on top (not postable here) says approval is still at 40% while disapproval is up to 55.2%, indicating disapproval is rising.

Scroll down on the same page and you can see several graphs comparing Rump to past POTUSes over the exact same time period of their presidencies (currently at 729 days). Rump is the solid green line (if Approval is selected) or solid red line (if disapproval is selected), offering a ready comparison with each POTUS at any point in time.

Perusing those graphs it becomes clear that Rump's disapproval is worse than George W. Bush's was at the time of the 2008 economic collapse; worse than Bill Clinton's was at the time of his impeachment hearings; worse than George H.W. Bush's was at the time he reneged on 'no new taxes'; worse than Reagan's was at the time of Iran Contra; worse than Jimmy Carter's was at any point of the Iran hostages or the energy crisis; worse than Gerald Ford's was during his pardon of Richard Nixon and "whip inflation now"; worse than Richard Nixon's was even at the point where he resigned; and worse than LBJ's was at any point of prosecuting the Vietnam war. Indeed Rump's disapproval mark has been worse than any POTUS listed at any point at all.

Ford, Carter and the Bushes' legacies got defeated handily; Nixon resigned in disgrace; and LBJ was so continually and bitterly protested that he didn't even run for re-election.

And Rump has so far topped them all.

"I will be the greatest despised President that god ever created. I tell you that".

It just shows how skewed the rhetoric on this board is compared to the real world. Doesn't it.

Wow!!!

I'm really impressed with your senseless rage at losing the 2016 election. *yawn*

Maybe next time you cocksuckers can figure out a way of making sure that more of your fake votes are counted than real votes are counted.

 

[Pogo]

Ah the Coriolis Effect --- one wonders if when the time comes, Jaïr Bolsonaro's poll numbers will circle the opposite way.... but we're getting ahead of ourselves......

Doom-all Rump's approval/disapproval ratings, which have been remarkably consistent for two years as hovering around 40% approve/50+% disapprove, are, to quote the Monty Python castle owner, sinking into the swamp.

Fivethirtyeight.com has been running a continuous analysis of all polls available for the duration, which can be seen here for latest updates. The aggregate graph on top (not postable here) says approval is still at 40% while disapproval is up to 55.2%, indicating disapproval is rising.

Scroll down on the same page and you can see several graphs comparing Rump to past POTUSes over the exact same time period of their presidencies (currently at 729 days). Rump is the solid green line (if Approval is selected) or solid red line (if disapproval is selected), offering a ready comparison with each POTUS at any point in time.

Perusing those graphs it becomes clear that Rump's disapproval is worse than George W. Bush's was at the time of the 2008 economic collapse; worse than Bill Clinton's was at the time of his impeachment hearings; worse than George H.W. Bush's was at the time he reneged on 'no new taxes'; worse than Reagan's was at the time of Iran Contra; worse than Jimmy Carter's was at any point of the Iran hostages or the energy crisis; worse than Gerald Ford's was during his pardon of Richard Nixon and "whip inflation now"; worse than Richard Nixon's was even at the point where he resigned; and worse than LBJ's was at any point of prosecuting the Vietnam war. Indeed Rump's disapproval mark has been worse than any POTUS listed at any point at all.

Ford, Carter and the Bushes' legacies got defeated handily; Nixon resigned in disgrace; and LBJ was so continually and bitterly protested that he didn't even run for re-election.

And Rump has so far topped them all.

"I will be the greatest despised President that god ever created. I tell you that".

It just shows how skewed the rhetoric on this board is compared to the real world. Doesn't it.

Wow!!!

I'm really impressed with your senseless rage at losing the 2016 election. *yawn*

Maybe next time you cocksuckers can figure out a way of making sure that more of your fake votes are counted than real votes are counted.

Maybe next time you should actually read the post. It says nothing about any "election", 2016 or any other year. Nor does it allude to any "votes".

Nor does it have anything in the slightest to do with "cocksucking" but it's revealing that when you go into what you think is a voting booth it has a glory hole.

 

[Silhouette]

Ah the Coriolis Effect --- one wonders if when the time comes, Jaïr Bolsonaro's poll numbers will circle the opposite way.... but we're getting ahead of ourselves......

Doom-all Rump's approval/disapproval ratings, which have been remarkably consistent for two years as hovering around 40% approve/50+% disapprove, are, to quote the Monty Python castle owner, sinking into the swamp.

Fivethirtyeight.com has been running a continuous analysis of all polls available for the duration, which can be seen here for latest updates. The aggregate graph on top (not postable here) says approval is still at 40% while disapproval is up to 55.2%, indicating disapproval is rising.

Scroll down on the same page and you can see several graphs comparing Rump to past POTUSes over the exact same time period of their presidencies (currently at 729 days). Rump is the solid green line (if Approval is selected) or solid red line (if disapproval is selected), offering a ready comparison with each POTUS at any point in time.

Perusing those graphs it becomes clear that Rump's disapproval is worse than George W. Bush's was at the time of the 2008 economic collapse; worse than Bill Clinton's was at the time of his impeachment hearings; worse than George H.W. Bush's was at the time he reneged on 'no new taxes'; worse than Reagan's was at the time of Iran Contra; worse than Jimmy Carter's was at any point of the Iran hostages or the energy crisis; worse than Gerald Ford's was during his pardon of Richard Nixon and "whip inflation now"; worse than Richard Nixon's was even at the point where he resigned; and worse than LBJ's was at any point of prosecuting the Vietnam war. Indeed Rump's disapproval mark has been worse than any POTUS listed at any point at all.

Ford, Carter and the Bushes' legacies got defeated handily; Nixon resigned in disgrace; and LBJ was so continually and bitterly protested that he didn't even run for re-election.

And Rump has so far topped them all.

"I will be the greatest despised President that god ever created. I tell you that".

It just shows how skewed the rhetoric on this board is compared to the real world. Doesn't it.

Wow!!!

I'm really impressed with your senseless rage at losing the 2016 election. *yawn*

Maybe next time you cocksuckers can figure out a way of making sure that more of your fake votes are counted than real votes are counted.

OP & friends hate orange man. Orange man so so BAD.

We get it. Dem lefties are mad they tanked 2016. Now write a letter to Obama thanking him for that mid campaign order making little girls shower with deranged boys under threat of pulling school funding and then GET OVER IT!

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Pogo,

You could have saved a lot of time and effort and just said:

I'm mad.

 

[B. Kidd]

Ah the Coriolis Effect --- one wonders if when the time comes, Jaïr Bolsonaro's poll numbers will circle the opposite way.... but we're getting ahead of ourselves......

Doom-all Rump's approval/disapproval ratings, which have been remarkably consistent for two years as hovering around 40% approve/50+% disapprove, are, to quote the Monty Python castle owner, sinking into the swamp.

Fivethirtyeight.com has been running a continuous analysis of all polls available for the duration, which can be seen here for latest updates. The aggregate graph on top (not postable here) says approval is still at 40% while disapproval is up to 55.2%, indicating disapproval is rising.

Scroll down on the same page and you can see several graphs comparing Rump to past POTUSes over the exact same time period of their presidencies (currently at 729 days). Rump is the solid green line (if Approval is selected) or solid red line (if disapproval is selected), offering a ready comparison with each POTUS at any point in time.

Perusing those graphs it becomes clear that Rump's disapproval is worse than George W. Bush's was at the time of the 2008 economic collapse; worse than Bill Clinton's was at the time of his impeachment hearings; worse than George H.W. Bush's was at the time he reneged on 'no new taxes'; worse than Reagan's was at the time of Iran Contra; worse than Jimmy Carter's was at any point of the Iran hostages or the energy crisis; worse than Gerald Ford's was during his pardon of Richard Nixon and "whip inflation now"; worse than Richard Nixon's was even at the point where he resigned; and worse than LBJ's was at any point of prosecuting the Vietnam war. Indeed Rump's disapproval mark has been worse than any POTUS listed at any point at all.

Ford, Carter and the Bushes' legacies got defeated handily; Nixon resigned in disgrace; and LBJ was so continually and bitterly protested that he didn't even run for re-election.

And Rump has so far topped them all.

"I will be the greatest despised President that god ever created. I tell you that".

It just shows how skewed the rhetoric on this board is compared to the real world. Doesn't it.

Wow!!!

I'm really impressed with your senseless rage at losing the 2016 election. *yawn*

Maybe next time you cocksuckers can figure out a way of making sure that more of your fake votes are counted than real votes are counted.

They're working on that as you post!

 

[Pogo]

Ah the Coriolis Effect --- one wonders if when the time comes, Jaïr Bolsonaro's poll numbers will circle the opposite way.... but we're getting ahead of ourselves......

Doom-all Rump's approval/disapproval ratings, which have been remarkably consistent for two years as hovering around 40% approve/50+% disapprove, are, to quote the Monty Python castle owner, sinking into the swamp.

Fivethirtyeight.com has been running a continuous analysis of all polls available for the duration, which can be seen here for latest updates. The aggregate graph on top (not postable here) says approval is still at 40% while disapproval is up to 55.2%, indicating disapproval is rising.

Scroll down on the same page and you can see several graphs comparing Rump to past POTUSes over the exact same time period of their presidencies (currently at 729 days). Rump is the solid green line (if Approval is selected) or solid red line (if disapproval is selected), offering a ready comparison with each POTUS at any point in time.

Perusing those graphs it becomes clear that Rump's disapproval is worse than George W. Bush's was at the time of the 2008 economic collapse; worse than Bill Clinton's was at the time of his impeachment hearings; worse than George H.W. Bush's was at the time he reneged on 'no new taxes'; worse than Reagan's was at the time of Iran Contra; worse than Jimmy Carter's was at any point of the Iran hostages or the energy crisis; worse than Gerald Ford's was during his pardon of Richard Nixon and "whip inflation now"; worse than Richard Nixon's was even at the point where he resigned; and worse than LBJ's was at any point of prosecuting the Vietnam war. Indeed Rump's disapproval mark has been worse than any POTUS listed at any point at all.

Ford, Carter and the Bushes' legacies got defeated handily; Nixon resigned in disgrace; and LBJ was so continually and bitterly protested that he didn't even run for re-election.

And Rump has so far topped them all.

"I will be the greatest despised President that god ever created. I tell you that".

It just shows how skewed the rhetoric on this board is compared to the real world. Doesn't it.

Wow!!!

I'm really impressed with your senseless rage at losing the 2016 election. *yawn*

Maybe next time you cocksuckers can figure out a way of making sure that more of your fake votes are counted than real votes are counted.

OP & friends hate orange man. Orange man so so BAD.

We get it. Dem lefties are mad they tanked 2016. Now write a letter to Obama thanking him for that mid campaign order making little girls shower with deranged boys under threat of pulling school funding and then GET OVER IT!

Once AGAIN there's absolutely NOTHING in the OP that makes any reference to "2016" or any "election" for anything anywhere. The idea of writing a lead post is kind of laying out what the topic actually IS.

As for little girls in the shower, you'd have to ask Rump about that. He's the one that walks right into the locker room.

 

[Pogo]

Pogo,

You could have saved a lot of time and effort and just said:

I'm mad.

That too would have had nothing to do with the OP. I posted nothing whatsoever about anybody's emotions.

Funny I got several responses and not one of them dares go anywhere near the actual topic.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Pogo,

You could have saved a lot of time and effort and just said:

I'm mad.

That too would have had nothing to do with the OP. I posted nothing whatsoever about anybody's emotions.

Funny I got several responses and not one of them dares go anywhere near the actual topic.

What are we supposed to say?

Congrats?

You're mad. We can't help you.

 

[whitehall]

Are they the same pollsters who predicted Hillary in double digits?

 

[Pogo]

Pogo,

You could have saved a lot of time and effort and just said:

I'm mad.

That too would have had nothing to do with the OP. I posted nothing whatsoever about anybody's emotions.

Funny I got several responses and not one of them dares go anywhere near the actual topic.

What are we supposed to say?

Congrats?

You're mad. We can't help you.

Why are y'all obsessed with making the thread about me? It ain't about me, doesn't even mention me.
I appreciate the fan club but lemme send you an 8x10 glossy for your bedroom wall and go read the actual topic.

 

[Silhouette]

Ah the Coriolis Effect --- one wonders if when the time comes, Jaïr Bolsonaro's poll numbers will circle the opposite way.... but we're getting ahead of ourselves......

Doom-all Rump's approval/disapproval ratings, which have been remarkably consistent for two years as hovering around 40% approve/50+% disapprove, are, to quote the Monty Python castle owner, sinking into the swamp.

Fivethirtyeight.com has been running a continuous analysis of all polls available for the duration, which can be seen here for latest updates. The aggregate graph on top (not postable here) says approval is still at 40% while disapproval is up to 55.2%, indicating disapproval is rising.

Scroll down on the same page and you can see several graphs comparing Rump to past POTUSes over the exact same time period of their presidencies (currently at 729 days). Rump is the solid green line (if Approval is selected) or solid red line (if disapproval is selected), offering a ready comparison with each POTUS at any point in time.

Perusing those graphs it becomes clear that Rump's disapproval is worse than George W. Bush's was at the time of the 2008 economic collapse; worse than Bill Clinton's was at the time of his impeachment hearings; worse than George H.W. Bush's was at the time he reneged on 'no new taxes'; worse than Reagan's was at the time of Iran Contra; worse than Jimmy Carter's was at any point of the Iran hostages or the energy crisis; worse than Gerald Ford's was during his pardon of Richard Nixon and "whip inflation now"; worse than Richard Nixon's was even at the point where he resigned; and worse than LBJ's was at any point of prosecuting the Vietnam war. Indeed Rump's disapproval mark has been worse than any POTUS listed at any point at all.

Ford, Carter and the Bushes' legacies got defeated handily; Nixon resigned in disgrace; and LBJ was so continually and bitterly protested that he didn't even run for re-election.

And Rump has so far topped them all.

"I will be the greatest despised President that god ever created. I tell you that".

It just shows how skewed the rhetoric on this board is compared to the real world. Doesn't it.

Wow!!!

I'm really impressed with your senseless rage at losing the 2016 election. *yawn*

Maybe next time you cocksuckers can figure out a way of making sure that more of your fake votes are counted than real votes are counted.

OP & friends hate orange man. Orange man so so BAD.

We get it. Dem lefties are mad they tanked 2016. Now write a letter to Obama thanking him for that mid campaign order making little girls shower with deranged boys under threat of pulling school funding and then GET OVER IT!

Once AGAIN there's absolutely NOTHING in the OP that makes any reference to "2016" or any "election" for anything anywhere. The idea of writing a lead post is kind of laying out what the topic actually IS.

As for little girls in the shower, you'd have to ask Rump about that. He's the one that walks right into the locker room.

Clearly your message is that Trump is hugely unpopular. Which was true in 2016. But enough middle voters were shocked to the core by the deranged boys in girl’s showers dem executive order that they voted for Trump anyway.

Sure we saw some crowds behind Trump but they were there mainly in protest of the insane left. This is something the dems know but would never admit & something the gop doesn’t seem to know & keeps letting dem think tanks addle them about. I mean if the GOP truly got what was actually behind the Trump thing, they’d have the House now too.

 

[percysunshine]

Ah the Coriolis Effect --- one wonders if when the time comes, Jaïr Bolsonaro's poll numbers will circle the opposite way.... but we're getting ahead of ourselves......

Doom-all Rump's approval/disapproval ratings, which have been remarkably consistent for two years as hovering around 40% approve/50+% disapprove, are, to quote the Monty Python castle owner, sinking into the swamp.

Fivethirtyeight.com has been running a continuous analysis of all polls available for the duration, which can be seen here for latest updates. The aggregate graph on top (not postable here) says approval is still at 40% while disapproval is up to 55.2%, indicating disapproval is rising.

Scroll down on the same page and you can see several graphs comparing Rump to past POTUSes over the exact same time period of their presidencies (currently at 729 days). Rump is the solid green line (if Approval is selected) or solid red line (if disapproval is selected), offering a ready comparison with each POTUS at any point in time.

Perusing those graphs it becomes clear that Rump's disapproval is worse than George W. Bush's was at the time of the 2008 economic collapse; worse than Bill Clinton's was at the time of his impeachment hearings; worse than George H.W. Bush's was at the time he reneged on 'no new taxes'; worse than Reagan's was at the time of Iran Contra; worse than Jimmy Carter's was at any point of the Iran hostages or the energy crisis; worse than Gerald Ford's was during his pardon of Richard Nixon and "whip inflation now"; worse than Richard Nixon's was even at the point where he resigned; and worse than LBJ's was at any point of prosecuting the Vietnam war. Indeed Rump's disapproval mark has been worse than any POTUS listed at any point at all.

Ford, Carter and the Bushes' legacies got defeated handily; Nixon resigned in disgrace; and LBJ was so continually and bitterly protested that he didn't even run for re-election.

And Rump has so far topped them all.

"I will be the greatest despised President that god ever created. I tell you that".

It just shows how skewed the rhetoric on this board is compared to the real world. Doesn't it.

I guess Trump is pretty happy he was running against Hillary instead of Truman.

 

[Pogo]

Ah the Coriolis Effect --- one wonders if when the time comes, Jaïr Bolsonaro's poll numbers will circle the opposite way.... but we're getting ahead of ourselves......

Doom-all Rump's approval/disapproval ratings, which have been remarkably consistent for two years as hovering around 40% approve/50+% disapprove, are, to quote the Monty Python castle owner, sinking into the swamp.

Fivethirtyeight.com has been running a continuous analysis of all polls available for the duration, which can be seen here for latest updates. The aggregate graph on top (not postable here) says approval is still at 40% while disapproval is up to 55.2%, indicating disapproval is rising.

Scroll down on the same page and you can see several graphs comparing Rump to past POTUSes over the exact same time period of their presidencies (currently at 729 days). Rump is the solid green line (if Approval is selected) or solid red line (if disapproval is selected), offering a ready comparison with each POTUS at any point in time.

Perusing those graphs it becomes clear that Rump's disapproval is worse than George W. Bush's was at the time of the 2008 economic collapse; worse than Bill Clinton's was at the time of his impeachment hearings; worse than George H.W. Bush's was at the time he reneged on 'no new taxes'; worse than Reagan's was at the time of Iran Contra; worse than Jimmy Carter's was at any point of the Iran hostages or the energy crisis; worse than Gerald Ford's was during his pardon of Richard Nixon and "whip inflation now"; worse than Richard Nixon's was even at the point where he resigned; and worse than LBJ's was at any point of prosecuting the Vietnam war. Indeed Rump's disapproval mark has been worse than any POTUS listed at any point at all.

Ford, Carter and the Bushes' legacies got defeated handily; Nixon resigned in disgrace; and LBJ was so continually and bitterly protested that he didn't even run for re-election.

And Rump has so far topped them all.

"I will be the greatest despised President that god ever created. I tell you that".

It just shows how skewed the rhetoric on this board is compared to the real world. Doesn't it.

Wow!!!

I'm really impressed with your senseless rage at losing the 2016 election. *yawn*

Maybe next time you cocksuckers can figure out a way of making sure that more of your fake votes are counted than real votes are counted.

OP & friends hate orange man. Orange man so so BAD.

We get it. Dem lefties are mad they tanked 2016. Now write a letter to Obama thanking him for that mid campaign order making little girls shower with deranged boys under threat of pulling school funding and then GET OVER IT!

Once AGAIN there's absolutely NOTHING in the OP that makes any reference to "2016" or any "election" for anything anywhere. The idea of writing a lead post is kind of laying out what the topic actually IS.

As for little girls in the shower, you'd have to ask Rump about that. He's the one that walks right into the locker room.

Clearly your message is that Trump is hugely unpopular. Which was true in 2016. But enough middle voters were shocked to the core by the deranged boys in girl’s showers dem executive order that they voted for Trump anyway.

Sure we saw some crowds behind Trump but they were there mainly in protest of the insane left.

Ummmm... Rump WAS the deranged boy in the girls' showers, so that doesn't even add up.

And no, the point is not Rump's unpopularity in 2016. It's Rump's unpopularity constantly since then. At historic levels.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

OP is mad.

Trying convince us that we are mad.

Not working.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Ah the Coriolis Effect --- one wonders if when the time comes, Jaïr Bolsonaro's poll numbers will circle the opposite way.... but we're getting ahead of ourselves......

Doom-all Rump's approval/disapproval ratings, which have been remarkably consistent for two years as hovering around 40% approve/50+% disapprove, are, to quote the Monty Python castle owner, sinking into the swamp.

Fivethirtyeight.com has been running a continuous analysis of all polls available for the duration, which can be seen here for latest updates. The aggregate graph on top (not postable here) says approval is still at 40% while disapproval is up to 55.2%, indicating disapproval is rising.

Scroll down on the same page and you can see several graphs comparing Rump to past POTUSes over the exact same time period of their presidencies (currently at 729 days). Rump is the solid green line (if Approval is selected) or solid red line (if disapproval is selected), offering a ready comparison with each POTUS at any point in time.

Perusing those graphs it becomes clear that Rump's disapproval is worse than George W. Bush's was at the time of the 2008 economic collapse; worse than Bill Clinton's was at the time of his impeachment hearings; worse than George H.W. Bush's was at the time he reneged on 'no new taxes'; worse than Reagan's was at the time of Iran Contra; worse than Jimmy Carter's was at any point of the Iran hostages or the energy crisis; worse than Gerald Ford's was during his pardon of Richard Nixon and "whip inflation now"; worse than Richard Nixon's was even at the point where he resigned; and worse than LBJ's was at any point of prosecuting the Vietnam war. Indeed Rump's disapproval mark has been worse than any POTUS listed at any point at all.

Ford, Carter and the Bushes' legacies got defeated handily; Nixon resigned in disgrace; and LBJ was so continually and bitterly protested that he didn't even run for re-election.

And Rump has so far topped them all.

"I will be the greatest despised President that god ever created. I tell you that".

It just shows how skewed the rhetoric on this board is compared to the real world. Doesn't it.

The authoritarian right is perfectly content with its minority rule and couldn’t care less about the opinion of the majority of the American people.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The authoritarian right is perfectly content with its minority rule and couldn’t care less about the opinion of the majority of the American people.

Oh, that's rich.