Church refuses to hold funeral for gay man

[RetiredGySgt]

Its amazing how wrong you got this.

So first of all, merely because I am not a Christian and do not know the scriptures does not mean I "don't know a fuckin thing about Christianity".

Secondly, my opinion is how people in general, not just the church, should treat others and so it has little to do with Christianity.

Thirdly, since when does one need to be an expert on something to post something in this forums? If that is the criteria, I submit the forums should be shut down immediatelly, as almost all posts do not fit the criteria. Although if you feel that is the critera, I strongly suggest you only post in those threads you have expert knowledge in. This should keep you from posting in...well pretty much everything most likely.

But of course you and the "intelligent" liberals will be able to post on any and everything, cause, well your just so much smarter than us Hick Conservatives, right?

 

[Alucard]

Its amazing how wrong you got this.

So first of all, merely because I am not a Christian and do not know the scriptures does not mean I "don't know a fuckin thing about Christianity".

Secondly, my opinion is how people in general, not just the church, should treat others and so it has little to do with Christianity.

Thirdly, since when does one need to be an expert on something to post something in this forums? If that is the criteria, I submit the forums should be shut down immediatelly, as almost all posts do not fit the criteria. Although if you feel that is the critera, I strongly suggest you only post in those threads you have expert knowledge in. This should keep you from posting in...well pretty much everything most likely.

I thought the church was overly generous... They helped every way they could... And your lack of knowlege about Christianity explains your ignorance to the circumstances...

Listen carefully... The chuch can NOT condone(or apear to condone) homosexual behavior at all...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I thought the church was overly generous... They helped every way they could... And your lack of knowlege about Christianity explains your ignorance to the circumstances...

Listen carefully... The chuch can NOT condone(or apear to condone) homosexual behavior at all...

That is not factually accurate either. The Church could condone it in several different ways. But they do not have to. More importantly it is obvious from what has been posted that the family wanted rub the life style in the churches face.

 

[Larkinn]

But of course you and the "intelligent" liberals will be able to post on any and everything, cause, well your just so much smarter than us Hick Conservatives, right?

RGS...get this through your annoyingly thick skull...I do NOT make generalizations about those sorts of things. Alucard is a fucking moron because of a number of reasons, NONE of which are that he holds conservative beliefs.

Besides the fact that I made no reference to liberal or conservative in there. If the criteria was that you would have to be an expert in whatever you were posting about, I doubt I could post anything. I know you are a completely braindead partisan hack, but don't assume everyone else shares your asinine partisan views. I do NOT, I repeat do NOT think that conservatives are any smarter, or stupider, on average, than liberals. Now will you stop bringing this issue up every week and attempting in a piss poor way to entrap me? It hasn't worked before, its not working now, and it won't work in the future.

 

[Larkinn]

I thought the church was overly generous... They helped every way they could... And your lack of knowlege about Christianity explains your ignorance to the circumstances...

Listen carefully... The chuch can NOT condone(or apear to condone) homosexual behavior at all...

Mentioning it as a fact is not condoning it.

 

[Larkinn]

That is not factually accurate either. The Church could condone it in several different ways. But they do not have to. More importantly it is obvious from what has been posted that the family wanted rub the life style in the churches face.

Rub the lifestyle in the churches face? It was a reality of this person as a human being. Mentioning that reality, as numerous other realities are mentioned at funerals, is not rubbing it in anyones face.

 

[Alucard]

RGS...get this through your annoyingly thick skull...I do NOT make generalizations about those sorts of things. Alucard is a fucking moron because of a number of reasons, NONE of which are that he holds conservative beliefs.

Besides the fact that I made no reference to liberal or conservative in there. If the criteria was that you would have to be an expert in whatever you were posting about, I doubt I could post anything. I know you are a completely braindead partisan hack, but don't assume everyone else shares your asinine partisan views. I do NOT, I repeat do NOT think that conservatives are any smarter, or stupider, on average, than liberals. Now will you stop bringing this issue up every week and attempting in a piss poor way to entrap me? It hasn't worked before, its not working now, and it won't work in the future.

I never said EXPERT... YOU DID!!!

I simply said you need to have some knowlege on the subject(a clue) if you want to engage in debate...

If not you just look foolish like you do now...

Isnt there gay messageboard out there you can post on? Maybe your opinions would be more understood and accepted by other men who enjoy the lifestyle?.

 

[Alucard]

Mentioning it as a fact is not condoning it.

The only reason to mention it in church would be if they were asking forgivness for his inhuman behavior...

 

[Larkinn]

I never said EXPERT... YOU DID!!!

Yes, that is correct.

I simply said you need to have some knowlege on the subject(a clue) if you want to engage in debate...

No, actually you never said that.

If not you just look foolish like you do now...

Seriously...do you have any idea how much of a tool you've made yourself look like during this little debate? Its so pathetic its amusing.

Isnt there gay messageboard out there you can post on? Maybe your opinions would be more understood and accepted by other men who enjoy the lifestyle?.

I was wondering when you would call me gay. Come on now...at least be a little creative.

Anyway...as amusing as you are, the humor you provide isn't worth staying up any later since I have some work to do tomorrow. So have a good night and remember to wear your diaper to bed so you don't wet your sheets again Alutard! Nighty night <3.

 

[Larkinn]

The only reason to mention it in church would be if they were asking forgivness for his inhuman behavior...

Incorrect. It was a part of who he was.

 

[Alucard]

Incorrect. It was a part of who he was.

A PART THAT HAS NO PLACE IN CHURCH... DOPE...

 

[Edward]

Nobody is saying they should be forced to do anything. Merely that they should have done it. Just as the Church is free to deny or provide funerals to who they wish, we as citizens, individuals, and human beings are free to express our agreement, disagreement, or any other sort of nuanced (or in the case of this thread non-nuanced) opinions we might hold.

You should be applauded for standing up and denouncing the immoral actions of this Church. I commend you for your willingness to take a moral stand and to denounce their actions. I agree with you whole-heartedly that while it was their right to deny this man, his family, friends and fellow veterans a funeral to honor his memory, service and life it was still immoral to do so. If more people would denounce the un-Christlike actions of this Church and those who behave in this manner towards those who have led a less than perfect life and who are now on their way to meet God whose place it is to pass eternal judgment than the world would be a much better place. May God have mercy on this man and those who have passed judgment on him and may they not be denied a funeral because of their sins but based on the posts here that there are quite a few non-Christians who call themselves Christians who would provide a Church for these sinners to have a funeral in all the while praising thmselves as "repentant." Don't you know that they are different and special. When these sinners are dead their families will honor their sinful life and will praise them and honor their memory and the Church they belong to will hold a funeral for these sinners.

 

[Edward]

Try this link for a definition of Funeral and then explain how the Church prevented him or denied him from HAVING one?

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

from the link

Main Entry: 1fu·ner·al
Pronunciation: 'fyün-r&l, 'fyü-n&-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin funeralis, from Latin funer-, funus funeral (n.)
1 : of, relating to, or constituting a funeral

also from the link....

Main Entry: 2funeral
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English funerelles (plural), from Middle French funerailles (plural), from Medieval Latin funeralia (plural), from Late Latin, neuter plural of funeralis, adjective
1 : the observances held for a dead person usually before burial or cremation
2 chiefly dialect : a funeral sermon
3 : a funeral procession
4 : an end of something's existence
5 : a matter of concern to one : WORRY <if you flunk, it's your funeral>

The definition of deny...

One entry found for deny.
Main Entry: de·ny
Pronunciation: di-'nI, dE-
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): de·nied; de·ny·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French deneier, denier, from Latin denegare, from de- + negare to deny -- more at NEGATE
1 : to declare untrue <deny an allegation>
2 : to refuse to admit or acknowledge : DISAVOW <deny responsibility>
3 a : to give a negative answer to <denying the petitioners> b : to refuse to grant <deny a request> c : to restrain (oneself) from gratification of desires
4 archaic : DECLINE
5 : to refuse to accept the existence, truth, or validity of
- de·ny·ing·ly /-'nI-i[ng]-lE/ adverb
synonyms DENY, GAINSAY, CONTRADICT, CONTRAVENE mean to refuse to accept as true or valid. DENY implies a firm refusal to accept as true, to grant or concede, or to acknowledge the existence or claims of <denied the charges>. GAINSAY implies disputing the truth of what another has said <no one can gainsay her claims>. CONTRADICT implies an open or flat denial <her account contradicts his>. CONTRAVENE implies not so much an intentional opposition as some inherent incompatibility <laws that contravene tradition>.

from the same dictionary source , the above link.

There is a difference between "deny" and "prohibit" and anyone with a basic grasp of the English language knows the difference without having to look it up in a dictionary. They did deny him a funeral but they did not prohibit his family from having a funeral. If you asked me for a Pepsi and I told you no I would be denying you a Pepsi but since you are free to get a Pepsi from a different person I would still be denying you a Pepsi. The fact that you can obtain it elsewhere doesn't mean that I didn't deny you it. The fact that I didn't prohibit you from getting a Pepsi doesn't mean that I didn't deny it to you. Now I suggest you use some common sense retard before quoting the dictionary as if to appeal to authority because it makes you look stupid.

 

[Edward]

Playing word games again as usual. He was NOT denied a Funeral, which is what you said. He was denied a funeral AT a specific location for a specific reason. BUT he had a funeral as you full well know.

It is you who is playing word games. Let me make your post sound even more stupid: "He was NOT denied a Pepsi, which is what you said. He was denied a Pepsi AT a specific store for a specific reason. BUT he had a Pepsi as you full well know."

So you can continue to play word games but it makes you look especially foolish to do so since anyone with any basic grasp of the English language knows that this man was denied a funeral by this Church. That they did not prohibit him from having a funeral is obvious since they don't have that authority. The only authority or right they have is to deny him a funeral just like any business has the right to "deny services" to a customer. That the customer can shop somewhere else doesn't mean that they didn't deny him service. If a store owner told you to leave his store and not to return again he would be denying you service even though you could obtain it elsewhere. That he can't prohibit you from obtaining service doesn't negate his denial of service. I suggest you take a remedial English class.

 

[CockySOB]

Mentioning it as a fact is not condoning it.

Mentioning is not condoning, I'll agree with that. However a pictorial celebration of the decedent's life, including scenes celebrating his homosexual relationship with his partner, could very well be seen as condoning unrepentant homosexuality - and that was something the church was unwilling to do.

 

[manu1959]

It is you who is playing word games. Let me make your post sound even more stupid: "He was NOT denied a Pepsi, which is what you said. He was denied a Pepsi AT a specific store for a specific reason. BUT he had a Pepsi as you full well know."

So you can continue to play word games but it makes you look especially foolish to do so since anyone with any basic grasp of the English language knows that this man was denied a funeral by this Church. That they did not prohibit him from having a funeral is obvious since they don't have that authority. The only authority or right they have is to deny him a funeral just like any business has the right to "deny services" to a customer. That the customer can shop somewhere else doesn't mean that they didn't deny him service. If a store owner told you to leave his store and not to return again he would be denying you service even though you could obtain it elsewhere. That he can't prohibit you from obtaining service doesn't negate his denial of service. I suggest you take a remedial English class.

i hear this man had a funeral....

 

[mattskramer]

Well. This particular church could have done worse. Hopefully their members are not having the activist “God Hates Fags” mentality. http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html

 

[manu1959]

Well. This particular church could have done worse. Hopefully their members are not having the activist “God Hates Fags” mentality. http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html

why are they not allowed their free speech rights?

 

[Truthmatters]

Sure they are but it seems they dont really care about God creatures which makes them a pack of hypocrits

 

[Ruby]

Sure they are but it seems they dont really care about God creatures which makes them a pack of hypocrits

You make a good point but this is how things either start to adapt to the inevitable cultural changes that occur or they become pretty extinct. When churches start getting too distant from what the true lives and norms of the people are, they face change or extinction.

As things keep changing, churches with such policies end up with less and less of a congregation who can leave religion all together or just go to a more tolerant and inclusive one.

I agree the church has a RIGHT to not provide a funeral, in the end though they will simply get left behind for not keeping up.