Church refuses to hold funeral for gay man

[Alucard]

There goes the Incredible Larkinns diappearing act again!!!!

 

[Larkinn]

As described in the Bible...

Lmao...the Bible describes a moral system and how things OUGHT to be, not how things ARE.

Not at church.... that is what we are talking about here!

Nope...even at church you are still in a free and open society. And by the way, you asked why YOU need to accept their behavior, not why the church needs to accept their behavior so no, we weren't talking about the church just then.

There goes the Incredible Larkinns diappearing act again!!!!

Are you for real? Because I don't sit here continually refreshing I "disappeared"? I am replying less than 30 minutes after you posted. Jesus, you really are a fucking moron aren't you?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Peh...this is one thing that has been repeated throughout this thread which is just moronic. They can do as they wish? No shit. Freedom of religion? No shit. Nobody is advocating the government censure them or tear down their church or some shit. Just as they have the freedom of religion to deny people funerals, we have the freedom of speech and expression to give our views about those tactics. This has nothing at all to do with freedom of religion.

Your factually wrong. No one denied this person a funeral. The specific church refused on grounds of what the church believes would be condoning his behavior if they held his service. Further they provided food and a new place to hold the service, the also offered to help the family in other ways. You like to play word games, This is simply not true. NO ONE denied the man a Funeral.

 

[mattskramer]

My position:

Private businesses, charities, and churches (profits and non-profits) should be free to do as they please. People can buy things or donate as they see fit based upon whether or not they condone the activity of the business or charity. A church might not technically be a business but in a practical sense it is. Just look at the money churches rake in and how much it keeps for itself. Look at the huge elaborate cathedrals, art works and other items. Look at the items being hawked by Pat Robertson. He has turned into an infomercial.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/25/AR2005082501806.html

Read about how a preacher would take donations but ignore prayer request letters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Tilton#Continuing_scandal

Read about the Christian park.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_PTL_Club

Look at the wealth displayed by popular preachers.

 

[Larkinn]

Your factually wrong. No one denied this person a funeral. The specific church refused on grounds of what the church believes would be condoning his behavior if they held his service. Further they provided food and a new place to hold the service, the also offered to help the family in other ways. You like to play word games, This is simply not true. NO ONE denied the man a Funeral.

I know...I like sticking to the actual definitions of words as opposed to making them up as I go along. Terrible of me isn't it RGS?

Yes, they denied him a funeral. Whether its justifiable or not is a separate issue, but they denied him a funeral.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Because we live in a free and open society. Don't like it? Move to a totalitarian state like North Korea or Burma. Those type of countries fit your sensibilities more.

Yes, we ARE free, Free to chose NOT to endorse or appear to endorse actions we disagree with. This church is opposed to endorsing or appearing to condone Homosexual affairs. They were not aware he was homosexual, they were not aware the memorial would include homosexual images, they did not agree that the family should run the entire procedure , making it appear as if the Church accepted and condoned Homosexual affairs and that life style.

The church however did try to accomadate the family in other ways that did not involve having the church appear to condone the homosexual life style. But you and the rest want to pretend this church should have done JUST that.

 

[Larkinn]

My position:

Private businesses, charities, and churches (profits and non-profits) should be free to do as they please. People can buy things or donate as they see fit based upon whether or not they condone the activity of the business or charity. A church might not technically be a business but in a practical sense it is. Just look at the money churches rake in and how much it keeps for itself. Look at the huge elaborate cathedrals, art works and other items. Look at the items being hawked by Pat Robertson. He has turned into an infomercial.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/25/AR2005082501806.html

Read about how a preacher would take donations but ignore prayer request letters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Tilton#Continuing_scandal

Read about the Christian park.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_PTL_Club

Look at the wealth displayed by popular preachers.

Nobody is saying they should be forced to do anything. Merely that they should have done it. Just as the Church is free to deny or provide funerals to who they wish, we as citizens, individuals, and human beings are free to express our agreement, disagreement, or any other sort of nuanced (or in the case of this thread non-nuanced) opinions we might hold.

 

[Larkinn]

Yes, we ARE free, Free to chose NOT to endorse or appear to endorse actions we disagree with. This church is opposed to endorsing or appearing to condone Homosexual affairs. They were not aware he was homosexual, they were not aware the memorial would include homosexual images, they did not agree that the family should run the entire procedure , making it appear as if the Church accepted and condoned Homosexual affairs and that life style.

Yes, they are. And I am free to condemn them for it. As I stated before this is NOT an issue of freedom of religion or freedom of expression.

The church however did try to accomadate the family in other ways that did not involve having the church appear to condone the homosexual life style. But you and the rest want to pretend this church should have done JUST that.

Yes they did, which is commendable. However they should have just held the funeral for him.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I know...I like sticking to the actual definitions of words as opposed to making them up as I go along. Terrible of me isn't it RGS?

Yes, they denied him a funeral. Whether its justifiable or not is a separate issue, but they denied him a funeral.

NO they did not, they denied him a Memorial AT their Church. He still had a funeral, he still had a memorial. I suggest you look up what those words mean. No one denied him either a funeral or a memorial. He in fact had both of those events.

 

[Alucard]

Lmao...the Bible describes a moral system and how things OUGHT to be, not how things ARE.?

IT IS A CHURCH YOU MORON!!!!

Nope...even at church you are still in a free and open society. And by the way, you asked why YOU need to accept their behavior, not why the church needs to accept their behavior so no, we weren't talking about the church just then.

Wrong... what did Jesus do when they had an open society in the temple?

go get you big sister kid... This board is for adults.

 

[Larkinn]

IT IS A CHURCH YOU MORON!!!!

So are you a Church? You said "I have no tolerance for gay men... Why should I have to accept thier behavior..." which is what I was responding too. Please tell me what that statement has to do with Church?

Wrong... what did Jesus do when they had an open society in the temple?

I have no idea, and couldn't care less.

go get you big sister kid... This board is for adults.

I honestly don't know how to respond to an insult like this. It is so patheticly childish, so amusingly immature. If I respond with an insult I will feel as if I am kicking a small child, or perhaps a monkey in a zoo. I know you won't be able to respond with any sort of decent insult, so I guess I'll just let it go. But it did make me laugh, so thanks for that.

 

[Larkinn]

NO they did not, they denied him a Memorial AT their Church. He still had a funeral, he still had a memorial. I suggest you look up what those words mean. No one denied him either a funeral or a memorial. He in fact had both of those events.

*sigh*

From dictionary.com...

to withhold something from, or refuse to grant a request of: to deny a beggar.

They refused to grant a request for a funeral. That does not mean he was denied all funerals, just that particular one.

By the way...a word of advice. Before telling someone else to look something up, look it up yourself first.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Try this link for a definition of Funeral and then explain how the Church prevented him or denied him from HAVING one?

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

from the link

Main Entry: 1fu·ner·al
Pronunciation: 'fyün-r&l, 'fyü-n&-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin funeralis, from Latin funer-, funus funeral (n.)
1 : of, relating to, or constituting a funeral

also from the link....

Main Entry: 2funeral
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English funerelles (plural), from Middle French funerailles (plural), from Medieval Latin funeralia (plural), from Late Latin, neuter plural of funeralis, adjective
1 : the observances held for a dead person usually before burial or cremation
2 chiefly dialect : a funeral sermon
3 : a funeral procession
4 : an end of something's existence
5 : a matter of concern to one : WORRY <if you flunk, it's your funeral>

The definition of deny...

One entry found for deny.
Main Entry: de·ny
Pronunciation: di-'nI, dE-
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): de·nied; de·ny·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French deneier, denier, from Latin denegare, from de- + negare to deny -- more at NEGATE
1 : to declare untrue <deny an allegation>
2 : to refuse to admit or acknowledge : DISAVOW <deny responsibility>
3 a : to give a negative answer to <denying the petitioners> b : to refuse to grant <deny a request> c : to restrain (oneself) from gratification of desires
4 archaic : DECLINE
5 : to refuse to accept the existence, truth, or validity of
- de·ny·ing·ly /-'nI-i[ng]-lE/ adverb
synonyms DENY, GAINSAY, CONTRADICT, CONTRAVENE mean to refuse to accept as true or valid. DENY implies a firm refusal to accept as true, to grant or concede, or to acknowledge the existence or claims of <denied the charges>. GAINSAY implies disputing the truth of what another has said <no one can gainsay her claims>. CONTRADICT implies an open or flat denial <her account contradicts his>. CONTRAVENE implies not so much an intentional opposition as some inherent incompatibility <laws that contravene tradition>.

from the same dictionary source , the above link.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

*sigh*

From dictionary.com...

to withhold something from, or refuse to grant a request of: to deny a beggar.

They refused to grant a request for a funeral. That does not mean he was denied all funerals, just that particular one.

By the way...a word of advice. Before telling someone else to look something up, look it up yourself first.

Playing word games again as usual. He was NOT denied a Funeral, which is what you said. He was denied a funeral AT a specific location for a specific reason. BUT he had a funeral as you full well know.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And where in the article does it say homosexuality would be praised?

Its their right to do this, but it is also highly fucked up. Everyone deserves a funeral, whether you agree or disagree with how they lived their life. They are dead now, have a little bit of fucking respect.

He HAD a funeral. He was not denied a Funeral.

 

[Alucard]

So are you a Church? You said "I have no tolerance for gay men... Why should I have to accept thier behavior..." which is what I was responding too. Please tell me what that statement has to do with Church? .

Why shoul I have to hear about it at church?

I have no idea, and couldn't care less..

Then you shouldnt even be posting on this thread or any topic involving Christianity.

I honestly don't know how to respond to an insult like this. It is so patheticly childish, so amusingly immature. If I respond with an insult I will feel as if I am kicking a small child, or perhaps a monkey in a zoo. I know you won't be able to respond with any sort of decent insult, so I guess I'll just let it go. But it did make me laugh, so thanks for that.

Glad I could make you smile... Now go get your big sister!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Sure they are...this particular church is denying him a funeral. Thats the whole point of the article.

And as to your response to my question...please look up the difference between "identify" and "praise". There is most certainly a difference between the two terms.

The church does not have the power to DENY him a funeral. All they can do is deny him a service at their facility. Play your word games all you want. Normal people fully understand the distinction. So do you.

 

[Larkinn]

He HAD a funeral. He was not denied a Funeral.

He was a denied a funeral... BY THEM. That does NOT mean that everyone else denied him a funeral.

Look at the example given by dictionary.com...does that mean the the beggar never gets money from anyone? No, it just means the denier didn't give the beggar anything.

Why shoul I have to hear about it at church?

Perhaps it would make you less of an ignorant fuckwad. But then again, perhaps not. It seems to be very deeply ingrained.

Then you shouldnt even be posting on this thread or any topic involving Christianity

Umm, no. What an asinine opinion.

Glad I could make you smile... Now go get your big sister!

I don't have one. But despite the fact that I don't have one your only slightly more intelligent than her.

 

[Alucard]

Umm, no. What an asinine opinion.

So you dont know a fuckin thing about Chistianity, but you think your opinion on how the church should conduct itself is relevent...

 

[Larkinn]

So you dont know a fuckin thing about Chistianity, but you think your opinion on how the church should conduct itself is relevent...

Its amazing how wrong you got this.

So first of all, merely because I am not a Christian and do not know the scriptures does not mean I "don't know a fuckin thing about Christianity".

Secondly, my opinion is how people in general, not just the church, should treat others and so it has little to do with Christianity.

Thirdly, since when does one need to be an expert on something to post something in this forums? If that is the criteria, I submit the forums should be shut down immediatelly, as almost all posts do not fit the criteria. Although if you feel that is the critera, I strongly suggest you only post in those threads you have expert knowledge in. This should keep you from posting in...well pretty much everything most likely.