Christianity would die without Islam.

[Uncensored2008]

Organized, centralized Christianity died a spiritual death when it became the official church of the Roman Empire. That has been an empty husk ever since.

Yeah, because there never was a reformation or the rise of protest.

The spirit of what Jesus represents is not the same thing. Whether or not one accepts Jesus in the fully religious sense, what he said has transcendence. It is a wise path that humans could follow and live a full and beautiful life. Of course, that is not what many people want, especially those devoted to power.

Sure dude, have another bong hit.

Islam is not destined to survive. It will either kill itself or slowly fade away.

All religions will fade away. Times change and religions become archaic.

 

[emilynghiem]

If I understand why the West chose the Christian God of war correctly, that choice was made and is sustained by the pressures of war brought against it by Islam.

That right there is The Ignoble Lie.

Any who purport to be Christian and are war mongers are very likely 'false prophets' More likely interested in themselves and their own selfish pursuits.

The very foundation of Christianity:

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Plato was a materialist/secularist. Totally ignorant of the spiritual.

Dear FactFinder I agreed with your msg until the point you negated Plato.
I don't think the laws of the Jews and Gentiles need to be framed as either/or
as if these are in opposition. the same way I would encourage secular nontheists
NOT to reject scripture and religion, but respect that these serve good purpose, so do the secular civil laws and sciences serve a purpose that is necessary or else it would not be here.

The ethics taught in the Greek philosophies were reconciled by Catholic scholars and authorities as not being against scripture, but edifying or complementing the same values, as I would describe as teaching them in an objective way, to act as an independent witness.

Buddhist teaching is also focused on the natural process of understanding how causes and effects lead to either spiritual peace or suffering, independent of religious belief, so this adds perspective and insight to the mind's ability to understand the laws affecting us as "universal." This can also be reconciled with Christianity as one way that "Gentiles" under natural laws may follow the laws by conscience, and to learn by experience.

These ways do not have to reject spirituality; and likewise, Christian ways do not have to reject the secular and nontheist ways either. The love of God and Christ fulfills ALL these ways, whether under secular or sacred laws of the church or the state; so the spiritual element of our connection with the collective truth of all humanity and all creation is there, regardless of which approach is used to study how things work within the given framework.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The Lie is necessary, Plato argues,

I thought that was Obama.

I see it as a right wing policy, not left.

Regards
DLI

President Obama has told how God guided him in his choice to serve the American people.
Calling himself a ‘Christian by choice’ he insisted: ‘I think my public service is part of that effort to express my Christian faith.

This was a statement by Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit on Nile-TV:

Adul Gheit had a one-on-one meeting with Obama, where the US President told him that He was still a Muslim, the son of a Muslim father, the step son of Muslim stepfather, that his half brothers in Kenya are Muslims, and that he was sympathetic towards the Muslim agenda.

Which do you think he is?
And look out for all of those spontaneous rioters in Libya...........

 

[theHawk]

Christianity would die without Islam.

Belief is a psychological and imposed condition. Mutual fear and The Nobel Lie is sustaining both Islam and Christianity by governments. They are using religion and the religious as patsies.

The Lie is necessary, Plato argues, in order to keep a stable social structure. In Plato’s mind, The Noble Lie is a religious lie that’s fed to the masses to keep them under control and happy with their situation in life.

Plato did not believe most people were smart enough to look after their own and society’s best interest. The few smart people of the world needed to lead the rest of the flock, Plato said. And The Noble Lie had to continue.

I have been puzzled for some time now as to why the West embraces a pathological and genocidal God who shows almost all works and deeds of hate instead of love.

If I understand why the West chose the Christian God of war correctly, that choice was made and is sustained by the pressures of war brought against it by Islam. The Islamic dogma of kill the infidels show other religions that that God is just as pathological and intolerant as the Christian God with his, believe in me or end in hell policy. The West fought fire with fire. A holy pissing contest based on the Noble Lie on both sides.

Rome, now the West, would have had to have a different God than what their Eastern counterparts had. Rome was created as a defensive response to invasions from the Khans and tribes of the Fertile Crescent, Islam. As the Asian tribes relented in their expansion, the main enemy of the West became and is now Islam.

Right, because liberalism and atheism don't use lies to control their people do they?

Christianity doesn't need Islam to survive. Islam is a religion based on lies, created by a pedophile false prophet that highjacked the Arabian pagan moon god Allah, which was already being worshipped in Mecca, into his own god.

The world would be a far better place without Islam.

 

[GreatestIam]

If I understand why the West chose the Christian God of war correctly, that choice was made and is sustained by the pressures of war brought against it by Islam.

That right there is The Ignoble Lie.

Any who purport to be Christian and are war mongers are very likely 'false prophets' More likely interested in themselves and their own selfish pursuits.

The very foundation of Christianity:

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Plato was a materialist/secularist. Totally ignorant of the spiritual.

Does God do unto others and shoe his love when he condemns the vast majority of us to hell?

And should we love such a callous God of hate?

Regards
DL

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

Saying that Christianity would DIE without Islam is a bit silly, but I have every certainty that religion thrives best when there is an adversary. It is no stretch to say that war and conquest have been a significant component of the Abrahamic religions for 1000s of years. The Old Testament talks of wars, as does the Quran, and of course we all know about the faith-based wars of Christianity throughout Europe and who can forget the Crusades.

This is not meant to parrot the "all the worlds problems come from religion" cliche. I leave that to the parrots. However, even a zealous Jew/Muslim/Christian will likely acknowledge the presence of war as a means to a religious end throughout history.

Religious faith burns hotter when there is an adversary. Religion needs an enemy to thrive. How important are the concepts of the Devil and Hell to Christianity?

I don't believe that Christianity would die without Islam, but enemies are an important issue for religion. When people feel secure and free from threat, they tend to live their lives for self-fulfillment, and the importance of religion diminishes. It's a matter of fear. If there is no fear, then there is no need for religion. So no, Christianity would not die without Islam, but rather, religion would die without fear.

 

[GreatestIam]

I do not agree with your first bit of B S but I like the way you ended which negates your first.

I too believe that we should go to the spiritual and scrap the old worn out immoral dogmas from the barbaric days.

All we need to is for Christians and Muslims to get civilized.

Regards
DL

Hi DL: I would like to hear more of your insights on how you see we could get to that point of greater mutual respect and civility.

Where I've had success reconciling with Christians and Muslims is focusing on common principles and values in both, including Christian teachings as well as Constitutional values and process.

I believe that DOES have potential for restoring civility and democratic due process,
where conflicts can be addressed and resolved respectfully, especially with respect to religious freedom to one's affiliations and traditions instead of competing against them.

Ironically, right now, it seems the Constitutional laws and govt are going through the SAME MESS as religions do, where the spirit of the laws gets corrupted, then people fight over:
should we dish the whole thing and go for new reforms outside the given structure?
should we "go back" to what the original intent is, and quit corrupting and twisting it?
This is like the issues with religions: is the problem to get rid of them altogether as messed up to begin with? or can we agree on the original spirit and enforce it as the saving grace?

So it seems humanity and history keeps repeating this pattern. All systems go through this.
Why not use all systems for good purpose, while correcting what is abused with each one?

I find it is more effective to work with people to RESPECT their systems of choice,
try to align with the common VALUES and SPIRIT of what these systems are best intended for, and get rid of anything corrupting and obstructing that good intent or purpose; instead of saying to throw it all away as bad. Rejection tends to make people defensive and wastes time fighting back and forth. In practice, it is not as effective as working with what people believe, and trying to help each person or group to achieve those goals, and using THAT as motivation to overcome the problems defeating or obstructing their very beliefs and values they are committed to by faith.

Partnership and cooperation require aligning on common goals and values so people can focus productively. And it is just reality that people define and relate to their goals using their religious and political traditions, so it is just natural they use that to communicate when trying to address and resolve problems so that agreed solutions can be formed out of that.
I think it is unrealistic to expect people to magically drop their cultural and personal ways of approaching issues in life; and more realistic to seek understanding of values common to all.

So I recommend including and respecting where people are coming from first, then working from there TOGETHER as allies, not competing as enemies, to fix the problems we all agree are abusive and would benefit from resolving. That way, our diversity becomes a strength, where we can reach and organize more people by affiliation, and democratize the process of social reforms to be civil and sustainable. I see nothing wrong with using religion to organize people and resources for this purpose.

Thanks for this well thought out and well put reply.

First, listen again to people like this man from the O P. He is more eloquent than myself.

‘Identity that sends us toward the other with love’

Second, I would recommend this dogma over any of the religious ones. It is not far removed from most religious dogmas but shows a more tolerant view.

TED Blog | The real difference between liberals and conservatives: Jonathan Haidt on TED.com

Third would be to accept the fact that most right wing doctrines hurt us all be we religious or not. I am quite liberal but believe that some conservative doctrines are worthy for us and speak to the sanctity that the Ted clip speaks to.

Most countries recognize the barbarism of most religious laws and have gone to secular thinking and if we all gave a hand at this point in time to renounce both the extreme left and right wings, the bird would fly straight and true. Right now, the bird is flying in a circle because of imbalance.

Recognizing the Noble lie is key for religions to remember their man-made roots.

I will add these clips to the mix for your consideration. The first which is part of the second speaks to my Gnostic Christian label and the second shows my view of religions overall and the Noble Lie that I think we and our governments should rescind. The third clip speaks to the reason that religions were invented in the first place as it shows why social control was required for city states that had to deal with the reality of finite resources. I see these city states as led by a timocratic king who through the religion that he would have created, also realized that there had to be a tyrannical part to his benevolent duty and created a religion to be just that
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D134B912A5]The Jesus Myth - Timothy Freke - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrMtRm3b8MU&feature=autoplay&list=PLCBF574D134B912A5&playnext=1]Caesar's Messiah-New edition paperback - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne1wIEGnPWo]The Bible's Buried Secrets - The Real Garden of Eden (Part I) - YouTube[/ame]

I see the King/God as having to have the morals shown in the Haigt clip.

TED Blog | The real difference between liberals and conservatives: Jonathan Haidt on TED.com

He would have to create his religion as expressed through his high priest/tyrant who would live by the first commandment of God, place no one above me as the enforcer of his King/God's rules and laws while still obeying his King. The larger Roman system would later assume the same system through the Noble Lie. First through the Flavians and later through Constantine.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD0eSqFJ7J4]Secrets of Christianity: Selling Christianity - YouTube[/ame]

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Saying that Christianity would DIE without Islam is a bit silly, but I have every certainty that religion thrives best when there is an adversary. It is no stretch to say that war and conquest have been a significant component of the Abrahamic religions for 1000s of years. The Old Testament talks of wars, as does the Quran, and of course we all know about the faith-based wars of Christianity throughout Europe and who can forget the Crusades.

This is not meant to parrot the "all the worlds problems come from religion" cliche. I leave that to the parrots. However, even a zealous Jew/Muslim/Christian will likely acknowledge the presence of war as a means to a religious end throughout history.

Religious faith burns hotter when there is an adversary. Religion needs an enemy to thrive. How important are the concepts of the Devil and Hell to Christianity?

I don't believe that Christianity would die without Islam, but enemies are an important issue for religion. When people feel secure and free from threat, they tend to live their lives for self-fulfillment, and the importance of religion diminishes. It's a matter of fear. If there is no fear, then there is no need for religion. So no, Christianity would not die without Islam, but rather, religion would die without fear.

Well done.
I dare not argue.

Please have a look at the links I put just above and wonder if the Noble Lie should be rescinded to bring truth to our regimes.

Regards
DL

 

[amrchaos]

Now, from the makers of "Jump the Shark" comes "Ride the Shark"!! Amrchaos!!




First--Christianity does not need Islam to survive!! It only need crazier cults to survive!! Think about it. Have you ever seen anyone die, lay dead for three days and come back to life? How about walk on the middle of a lake without sinking? Feeed thousands of people with a couple of loaves and a handful of ish(hey, that could make a great gospel song!!)

No! So how does Christianity get away with it? By denouncing crazier religions and cults!! Compare Islam with Christianity. How many christians nowadays will happily throw their lives away for God? Not many. But the Muslims are ready to blow themselves up for drawing rude pictures of their prophet!! Christians take hold of that and demonize it! No one dies for god anymore--they just beg God for goodies and sinful leisure and other types of pleasure. and by doing so they survive!

 

[GreatestIam]

I also believe that Obama is closer in a Christian manner of being correct in his approach to the Isreali/Palestinian conflict than any who want to just toe the line of the Jewish position. For God's sake, quit being led around by the nose and show some Christian leadership with foundational Christian principles. Chief of which is God's love for all people.

I believe that standing up for Christian principles of love is the way of 'blessing Isreal'.

I believe that is a spiritual role, and not necessarily suited for the President's office.
I find it takes a balance of being willing to use armed forces when necessary to thwart strikes and deter bullies from testing authority; and enforcing the diplomatic solutions "in order to prevent" from having to use that bigger force as a defense and deterrent.

So you would have to have both, in order to protect and promote the choice of peace -- WITHIN the environment of security under leadership that will not tolerate any violence or bullying. You cannot weaken the choice of going to war, which is necessary when dealing with bullies, or else such people take advantage of the peacemakers and roll over them to incite and test authority. Ideally I would have supported Obama as Vice President to work on internal issues and organizing resources to solve political and economic problems that way, while maintaining a strong front by having leaders such as Bush and Romney in charge of the military to represent defense. We need both approaches, working together side by side as partners, and don't need to compete or compromise one for the other. There is a place for the church leadership and also the state, and we don't need to abuse the state to act as the church.

What you describe is what I hope our oligarchic democracies will turn into once they evolves to timocratic tyrannies. Timocratic in leadership with tyrannical legal systems. The Noble Lie must be rescinded first though. We cannot continue to live a lie.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

[

Right, because liberalism and atheism don't use lies to control their people do they?

Christianity doesn't need Islam to survive. Islam is a religion based on lies, created by a pedophile false prophet that highjacked the Arabian pagan moon god Allah, which was already being worshipped in Mecca, into his own god.

The world would be a far better place without Islam.

Nicely reconciliatory tone.


Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Now, from the makers of "Jump the Shark" comes "Ride the Shark"!! Amrchaos!!




First--Christianity does not need Islam to survive!! It only need crazier cults to survive!! Think about it. Have you ever seen anyone die, lay dead for three days and come back to life? How about walk on the middle of a lake without sinking? Feeed thousands of people with a couple of loaves and a handful of ish(hey, that could make a great gospel song!!)

No! So how does Christianity get away with it? By denouncing crazier religions and cults!! Compare Islam with Christianity. How many christians nowadays will happily throw their lives away for God? Not many. But the Muslims are ready to blow themselves up for drawing rude pictures of their prophet!! Christians take hold of that and demonize it! No one dies for god anymore--they just beg God for goodies and sinful leisure and other types of pleasure. and by doing so they survive!

Better that than Christians fiving by their God's laws. If they did, we would have to outlaw Christianity.

If some did not have a social conscience we would just let them live their delusions but the harm they do forces good men to not do nothing.

Should we push to rescind the Noble Lie?
I think that that would go a long way to bring sanity back from Christian doldrums.

Regards
DL

 

[AmericanFirst]

Christianity would die without Islam.

Belief is a psychological and imposed condition. Mutual fear and The Nobel Lie is sustaining both Islam and Christianity by governments. They are using religion and the religious as patsies.

The Lie is necessary, Plato argues, in order to keep a stable social structure. In Plato’s mind, The Noble Lie is a religious lie that’s fed to the masses to keep them under control and happy with their situation in life.

Plato did not believe most people were smart enough to look after their own and society’s best interest. The few smart people of the world needed to lead the rest of the flock, Plato said. And The Noble Lie had to continue.

I have been puzzled for some time now as to why the West embraces a pathological and genocidal God who shows almost all works and deeds of hate instead of love.

If I understand why the West chose the Christian God of war correctly, that choice was made and is sustained by the pressures of war brought against it by Islam. The Islamic dogma of kill the infidels show other religions that that God is just as pathological and intolerant as the Christian God with his, believe in me or end in hell policy. The West fought fire with fire. A holy pissing contest based on the Noble Lie on both sides.

Rome, now the West, would have had to have a different God than what their Eastern counterparts had. Rome was created as a defensive response to invasions from the Khans and tribes of the Fertile Crescent, Islam. As the Asian tribes relented in their expansion, the main enemy of the West became and is now Islam.

Constantine chose Christianity. First, as a ploy to win in battle and maintained it later, even as he was not a Christian at heart, for his own self-aggrandizement as his plan, according to archeology, was to usurp Jesus as the new King/God.

Secrets of Christianity: Selling Christianity - YouTube

From there, Rome pushed northward and promoted the Christian God of war on his ability to win battles. The West of today was born.

The Franks - YouTube

Unfortunately, morality was never the draw for this Christian God. Only his barbarism that was used against all other Gods and most notably Islam’s.

The fear of Islam then is what is still the driving force that explains the West embracing the pathological and genocidal God of Christianity. It was all just the one-upmanship of killing power.

Vatican II tried for rapprochement with Islam and today, progressive Christianity is trying to offer an olive branch to Islam.

Are the right wings of Christianity and Islam ready to bury the hatchet of war and competition and have their Gods kiss and make up or will the demographics of Muslim peoples force the remainder of this century to be one of conflict?
Will both religions have what it takes to return to the older thinking that there is only one nameless God for all, or will we continue to fight for what is basically a name for God that all books of wisdom say we should not name?

‘Identity that sends us toward the other with love’

Should both Christianity and Islam revert and follow their religious root, Judaism, and recognize that their man created versions of their Gods are evil and reject them as unfit to rule any peaceful loving egalitarian nation?

God on Trial: The Verdict - YouTube

Regards
DL

Still farting and telling lies I see. Mohammed stole from ideas from the Bible and formed a false religion, therefore islam would die without Christianity.

 

[GreatestIam]

[

Regards
DL

Still farting and telling lies I see. Mohammed stole from ideas from the Bible and formed a false religion, therefore islam would die without Christianity.[/QUOTE]

Stolen material that was stolen by Rome.

All religions are false religions.

Except for yours of course.

Regards
DL